Not Sure Uprade is Worth the Time or Money

I am actually a little surprised at the list of features that are not included.  Some of these are ones people really rely on, I would think that Logos would want people to upgrade and not look back once the release comes out. It seems at a minimum that the way to go will be to run both versions in parallel; how efficient is that? To me prayer lists, full view interlinears, PBB, sentence diagramming, custom lectionaries, and others are regular features.  How could Logos expect people to use version 4 for as much as 6-8 months without them?

IMHO this product was released too early.  You just don't take away core functionality from an existing product  no matter how good the new stuff is....my two cents...

Gregg,

I appreciate your candor - many (all?) of us in the beta group hated the interface on day one.  But after a few days our tone started changing.  After two months I like it!

GreggShelton said:

using the new interface is frustrating and it seems much less flexible with respect to customization than v3. 

One of the design goals of Logos this time around was to craft good defaults into the program.  Customization is somewhat limited at this time, but there are hints and indications that once the release hubub has died down Logos will begin implementing community requested changes.  I believe they will - they have always listened in the past.

GreggShelton said:

when creating collections the screen automatically scrolls back to the top of the resource list when a resource is dragged to the exclude window necessitating a repetitive scroll - drag - scroll routine

It sounds like  you're clicking your library button and then trying to organize.  Try one of these options to get rid of that problem.

1. Click and drag that library button into a docked window.
2. Type Open Library in the command bar

Both of those will do the same thing.  From there you can float, dock, undock move your library around till you like where it is.

GreggShelton said:

Also, Logos 4 no longer allows one to print portions or pages of resources directly from the program.

That is coming later.  I believe there's a reference to it on the missing features page (look in my sig for the link).

GreggShelton said:

I'd encourage folks to wait and see on this one; it may well get better as Logos tweaks and upgrades but right now v3 is a more useable tool.

You're mileage may vary Gregg.  I guess it all depends on HOW you use the tool. 

Right now I can say that I haven't opened version three more than a handful of times in the last two months, and since reinstalling my OS on monday I still haven't put L3 on my computer.  L4 is good enough for me. 

True I miss sermon file adding, and a few other small features (print being one) but my comfort with the program and my willingness to wait works for me - it doesn't have to work for you.

The good news is that L3 will continue to work along side L4 without a single problem.  That will give you plenty of time to get used to the new program.

I'm going to be upgrading to 4 but I already know I will have to run Logos 3 until PBB functionality comes out.  I rely on a few of my PBBs every single day so it will be a while before 4 is fully functional for me.  I agree that an incomplete product was released but you have to remember that this is a key time for a company like Logos to release software.  It's before Christmas, before the Spring semester, before ETS, etc

Kevin I agree with you about new customers not missing what they don't know about, but with PBBs this is not exactly the case.  PBBs are not a small feature that can be forgotten, they make up almost half of my library!

I guess I will have to revert to 3 as well. sigh...

I agree completely.  This program reminds me of the phone tree you get when you call a company.  "If your product blew up, press 1 now.  If your product is just on fire, press 2.  To repeat this menu, hang up and call back."  The designers of the phone menus are trying to guess what you want, and they almost always guess wrong.  I think that's what's going on here.  We've lost customization because the designer is guessing what we want and is guessing wrong.  I wish they had guessed that I wanted to import all my notes, collections, etc.  I don't see any alternative to keeping Logos 3 for a while, perhaps a long while.

I would agree. I paid for the upgrade but now deeply regret it. The clincher for me is that Logos refuses to issue update scripts for 3.0 with the books you purchase under 4.0.

 

So you can use 3.0 along with 4.0 - but only for your library before the upgrade.

 

That is effectively saying that they refuse to support 3.0 with books your rightfully purchase. This is extremely poor customer service.

 

The fact that you can't print from the resources you bought is just icing on the cake. This upgrade is really a downgrade in many ways. Disappointing.

 

Save yourself some money and don't buy this.

 

 

Your books are your books.  If you can find the resource file on CD or the ftp site, you can use it now in 3.0.  Logos has also promised to make a script to import most new books (some may be too tied to L4's features) into 3.0, but their focus has been on the release.  I will admit that at the start of the Beta I was underwelmed.  About a month into the Beta, I saw L4 starting to take shape and do many things well.  At the end I thougth that it still needed some more time, but it was actually working much better now that the L4 optimized resources were there.

Perry Payne said:

Joe Miller said:

IMHO, they got it right.  L3 was cumbersome and most features were useless.  After spending the past 2 months beta testing v4, I think they got it right.  

Joe I agree completely...I think they got it right.  I was not a beta tester, but I actually am finding the new interface much more user-friendly.   You just can't jump into v4 saying that you want everything to be like v3.  Not going to happen. This was a complete rewrite of their software...for our benefit.  There is a tremendous amount of power in the new version, and the more I work with it, the more I am impressed.

V3 was cumberson and I am thrilled to have v4.  Way to go Logos!!!!

Just my opinion...

Joe and Perry, I agree with you totally. It is also my experience after using Logos 4 these few months. Now, when I come back to v3, I try to do things quite normal for Logos 4, like see the info about the book, and I am amazed how I did it before. It is just one simple example. Library features, search power. I hated searches in v3. I tried to avoid them, using Passage Guide and so on.

It reminds me switching from my PDA phone to iPhone. First, I tought, where are all those tweaking options. Now I am really happy with the iPhone. What is there, I use and I need. What is not there, I would hardly use anyways. Logos 4 is very smart and well thought program.

Just to get new pbb functionality to it and it is perfect. [:)]

Alex Scott said:

Probably the simplest way for most people in to look up the titles you're missing on the products pages and download the resources from there

I just did that and it was fun. I found some really amaizing resources I have in my Platinum, like AKOT (Analytical Key to the OT) and many other. Some really expensive stuff. Only now I really know what I got [:)]

R.M. said:

Actually according to Logos Customer service - any new books you purchase in 4.0 cannot be used in 3.0. I didn't make that up

They refuse to issue a script to unlock that, saying that only 4.0 new purchases can be used with 4.0.

Was this through a phone call or is it written down somewhere?

R.M. said:

Actually according to Logos Customer service - any new books you purchase in 4.0 cannot be used in 3.0. I didn't make that up

They refuse to issue a script to unlock that, saying that only 4.0 new purchases can be used with 4.0.

Honestly they may not be right.  It was my understanding that syncing your licenses in L3 will pickup whatever is unlocked in L4. 

I should go look for the post but I'm too lazy, anyone from the beta group remember seeing Bob or Bradley say that?

I hope thats not right as well, lol..

 

But I know when I now open 3.0 and update or use any of the other update scripts, it doesn't show my new books I purchased in my upgrade to be downloaded...

 

Maybe doing it manually would work...

R.M

Bradley told us last week during the Beta testing that all the new base package books that don't need 4.0 to function will be made available for L3, he said to give them a week or so to get them converted. I think it's been all hands on deck this week for the L4 launch and we'll probably see them next week.

Bradley Grainger told us Beta testers on Saturday October 31st that: "The resources in "Gold (LE)" that can be made to work with LDLS3 are going to be built in LBXLLS format, uploaded to the FTP site, and made available through the standard resource update script. However, this is lower priority than getting the books ready for Logos 4, so it may be a week or more until this happens."

Please note the OR MORE.  They are swamped now, and I hope they remain so for a while.  But they will add this in to 3.0.

You win points for being postive <g>

I am a curmudgeon when it comes to software and computers which is why I write reviews of such.

I do not think it really cool that I can run both. I'd love to just delete the old ASAP. I have no interest in running two versions.  But I am using 4 so I can be of help to my readers and to try to get over my habits knowing that I will eventually get as used to this as I was to the old.  But until they get the diagramming tool, which I use every time I work on a text, I will have it there. and it keeps calling me back to the comforts of home!

But there is light at the end of the tunnel and I cannot believe it is already November since it was just 1999 three days ago, so it will go fast and one day the little blue icon in my systray will tell me that the diagrams are coming!!