For Sale: Pillar, Baker Exeg., Baker NT, BDAG, AT Robertson - $390

Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 45 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:14 PM

RickSmith:
I don't appreciate how some of you would just jump the gun and call people's integrity into question.  I made the decision I made based on what I was told by the Logos rep.

 

You were told wrong by the rep. The upgrade prices are different for each user based on the previously purchased titles they have registered in their account. I already purchased R.A. Torrey Collection, Baker NTC, and several other stand-alone pricey titles. I upgraded to Portfolio that includes about 5 "duplicates. My "individualized upgrade price is cheaper than yours." because they did in fact credit me a percentage of those purchases. I say a percentage because they are already discounting the whole package close to 90% off. Would you expect them to refund 100% of your previous purchase and let you repurchase that for 10%? Especially after selling you $31,000 in resources for a few grand?  Alain Mashee addressed this percentage issue in another forum post earlier this week. I asked BobP what "duplicate" titles I still possess ownership of so as to avoid selling something he already gave me consideration for.   Read his response posted in brown text above.

Even if it is not sin on your part to sell it, it is VERY bad form to walk into the Logos forum and advertise to sell it. This is worse than spam!

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:15 PM

I know Bob hates setting policies...

But could he make it an exception and prohibit the sale of resources through the forums. This is standard practice on many other forums...

(please note: I am not entering into the above discussion)

Posts 40
Kevin Edwards | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:15 PM

Yes, Rick, you and I must have talked to the same guy. We were told the same things by the Logos folks.

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:16 PM

Also Matthew, I'd be glad to send in my "diskette, user manual cover or something to prove [I'm] entitled to the upgrade"  - I'm not selling anything that was on the base package. That would be theft.  I'm selling items that I am getting no credit what so ever for.  I'm not "double dipping", or am I getting anything "extra', nor is it "greed." - I am, however, being a good steward based on the wise [direct from the company] information, and advice I (and others) have received from the company we are doing business with.  

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:23 PM

Matthew, 

 

I appreciate your zeal, I hope God is using this to do great things!  

 

While I think you are a bit wrong on some of your math, I digress.  However; I would encourage you to re-read my post, because I did not "walk into the Logos forum and advertise to sell it."  I said I was planning on doing the same thing. Same thing = selling the resources I was ADVISED by Logos to sell, not necessarily selling them on this forum.  

 

(On a side note - I don't think it's "bad form" for Kevin to try to sell his resources on this forum, it sounds pretty smart to me.  If Logos told him (and me) to sell them, what better place to find buyers then a forum filled with users of the software?)

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:26 PM

RickSmith:

Also Matthew, I'd be glad to send in my "diskette, user manual cover or something to prove [I'm] entitled to the upgrade"  - I'm not selling anything that was on the base package. That would be theft.  I'm selling items that I am getting no credit what so ever for.  I'm not "double dipping", or am I getting anything "extra', nor is it "greed." - I am, however, being a good steward based on the wise [direct from the company] information, and advice I (and others) have received from the company we are doing business with.  

 

Well Rick & Kevin, Logos might have to honor their rep's mistake. The whole thread I quoted BobP's answer from has been addressing this issue all week. I was told the upgrade price did take into consideration those stand-alone purchases that were bundled in the larger package. If you were told different, especially by a Logos Rep, I apologize. Maybe you two are too busy ministering to be aware of the software industry's upgrade practices. I'm a meek and lowly Mephibosheth dining at the table of the king (on the menu is Portfolio, yum) I apologize for being so passionate about perceived wrongs against someone who has been so kind to me (Logos.) I will try not to take up offenses or quickly accuse an Elder. I still think it not appropriate to run sales ads here.......

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:31 PM

Also, you may want to call and speak to a rep again. I know they have told this to many people. (In fact if you call right now, they will tell you the same thing Kevin, and I told you.)  So they are still telling customers this.  I'm surprised Logos would be telling so many people a lie, it doesn't seem like a company that would tell lies to customers in order to gain sales.

(Also, I can't speak for Kevin, but I'm not an elder at my church.)

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:31 PM

Matthew C Jones:
I still think it not appropriate to run sales ads here.......

I'd rather not see them here, it just seems like the wrong place. I'm not saying it's a moral thing, just a personal preference.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 7:43 PM

RickSmith:

Also, you may want to call and speak to a rep again. I know they have told this to many people. (In fact if you call right now, they will tell you the same thing Kevin, and I told you.)  So they are still telling customers this.  I'm surprised Logos would be telling so many people a lie, it doesn't seem like a company that would tell lies to customers in order to gain sales.

(Also, I can't speak for Kevin, but I'm not an elder at my church.)

Well I have calmed down now.....Indifferent  As Brother Milford says "Peace"  Wilted Flower and  Big Smile  "Joy" 

I will call Logos. Maybe I was told incorrect info.     I hope you understand my impassioned response. When I have received nothing but good from this company it hit me the wrong way.  Kind of like when @ccord@nce users come here and bad-mouth Logos.  

May God give me the grace to be like my mature Brother Milford,  "Peace" and "Joy"

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 40
Kevin Edwards | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 9:34 PM

Concerning my advertising the sale of these Logos resources in this forum, it was the Logos folks who recommended that I do this. So, not only was the procedure of how to sell, but the place to sell these was also explained to me by the Logos folks. As pointed out in the first post in this thread, please call the Logos folks if you have any questions about this, and they will tell you exactly what they told me (and Rick).

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 9:38 PM

KevinEdwards:

Concerning my advertising the sale of these Logos resources in this forum, it was the Logos folks who recommended that I do this. So, not only was the procedure of how to sell, but the place to sell these was also explained to me by the Logos folks. As pointed out in the first post in this thread, please call the Logos folks if you have any questions about this, and they will tell you exactly what they told me (and Rick).

Still not entering into the debate about the resale....

But, I'm sorry to hear that the forums may become a place where items are put up for sale...

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 9:52 PM

Damian McGrath:
But, I'm sorry to hear that the forums may become a place where items are put up for sale...
Not getting into the above debate either, but I do agree.  I hope this does not become the sales forum.  Create a separate forum so I can ignore all sales threads Logos and then send all donated licenses directly to me :-)

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 10:07 PM

It's not a debate anymore.

I don't own the forums either.

I do think there is a communication breakdown in the Logos ranks.

What I think doesn't really matter.

I'd love to have been told wrong and permitted now to sell my "duplicates."

Done with this one......

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 112
BS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:04 PM

Wow!  There sure were a lot of assumptions and prejudgments made about the author in that first page! 

A private message or email would have been a better way to address some of those concerns about what the author is doing than posting in a public forum and hijacking his For Sale thread.

Posts 1713
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:06 PM

Kevin and Rick,

I'm very sorry for the confusion, and that I wasn't on the forums sooner.

It appears someone at Logos has misinformed you. (It's our fault. We have 175+ people and sometimes it is hard to get everyone on the same page.)

As I've explained at great length in another topic, we price the upgrades to reflect the earlier purchases. We try very hard not to make policies, and to be able to stay flexible to meet our customers varied needs and circumstances, but that's what leads to the confusion sometimes.

I will be talking with the sales team tomorrow to make sure everyone's on the same page. After I've talked with them, I'd be happy to talk with you directly about what was promised to you, etc.

Please remember that these "problems" are a result of our trying to continue to add value for new users -- including you, when you make new purchases. It's logistically easier for us to simply "sell you up" to the new collection, instead of running the massive database task of building a custom "your upgrade contains" collection for every single user's unique collection. But if that's what it takes to kill this idea that people are getting "two licenses", then maybe we'll have to do that.

We have to pay publishers royalties. We have a single title, for example, with a $56 royalty in it. When a user who purchased that separately, say, for $100, buys a $350 upgrade to a new large collection that contains it, we don't send a second $56 to the publisher. So if you resell your "separate" license from the $100 product, the book ends up with two people and the publisher gets paid once.

Now we could handle this on the server with, as I suggested, massive amounts of library analysis and the generation of custom upgrade collections for each user that don't include any title previously purchased, etc. But wouldn't you rather we put our coding time into the feature?

I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to share the understanding of the problem.

Possible solutions? Maybe we don't allow license transfers of anything included in the highest level you've purchased. And if you transfer first, and then upgrade, we remove from your discount collection anything transfered. (A lot of code, but doable. We'd have to record transfers as negative purchases, to have your records reflect not only what you'd spent with us, but what you'd "unspent" as well.)

Or we bite the bullet and change our marketing to clearly state that licenses are never transferable? It's actually pretty common -- most e-book platforms don't do transfers. We'd lose some customers, but?...

Or simply restrict license transfer to "all or nothing"? So you can retire and leave your investment to the new minister, or to your grandkid in your will, but can't sell it piecemeal?

What's fair?

 

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:11 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Possible solutions? Maybe we don't allow license transfers of anything included in the highest level you've purchased. And if you transfer first, and then upgrade, we remove from your discount collection anything transfered. (A lot of code, but doable. We'd have to record transfers as negative purchases, to have your records reflect not only what you'd spent with us, but what you'd "unspent" as well.)

This is the best, except for the cost of rewriting of your system.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:20 PM

I agree.

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:33 PM

Bob,

 

It's not just one person, several of your sales reps have told LOTS of people this same information. In regards to your statement about not sending the publisher a second ($56 dollars) it seems as if you should.  For instance in my case, my 2 resources did not give me anything off the price.  It would have been the exact same price if I upgraded without having bought those 2 resources.  So should I have sold my resources before buying the upgrade? (If so the rep should have told me so, instead of the false info, and I would have done it, as not to have wasted the money I spent on those resources that were recently purchased.)  

So then I would have upgraded to the new package, paid the hefty fee, and it would of been as if I bought that book for the first time, thus the publisher would be paid a royalty.  I can understand for books that are the same in both packages, because you are not "re-buying" those books, you are paying for all the new resources.  In a case like mine, I mainly upgraded to get the resources I already had (which makes no sense to do since there isn't much else in that upgrade that is useable to me, unless I did what your rep said which was sell the 2 separate resources in question just like I would "any other book.")  I would not have paid the price I paid to upgrade to access the random books that come in the new package that I will never use - it just isn't worth it.

 

Also, I"m not sure if you record phone calls, but if you do, you may be interested in pulling up the phone call, because the rep give me more then just a "little information."  They told me it was "common" and then went on to explain the entire process to me.  (Having me and my friend both call at the same time, and how you switch the license to his account from mine, etc, etc...)  It was a pretty detailed conversation for someone who may have been misinformed.  As many people who I know that have said they were told the same thing (and I can send out a tweet tomorrow and see how many more have gotten the same info) I'm surprised this is just now coming up.   It seems the reps have been telling people this for a while; even before the Logos 4 upgrade.

 

None the less, if I'm not able to do what the rep on the phone told me I could do I would like to talk with you about what my options are, since a key factor in me paying the hefty fee for the upgrade was that I would be able to sell the 2 resources in question.

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:51 PM

"Maybe we don't allow license transfers of anything included in the highest level you've purchased. And if you transfer first, and then upgrade, we remove from your discount collection anything transfered"

 

I don't understand this. Why would you move from the new collection anything transferred?  That doesn't make sense.  For instance if I bought a gold package, Logos 4 - and then bought a BDAG for 100 bucks, and returned it a few weeks later because I didn't like how it key-linked, or something else, or perhaps gifted to a friend who wanted it, but couldn't afford it - then a month later you came out with Logos 4 and I decide to upgrade to the new Logos 4.  I pay the upgrade price from Logos 3 to Logos 4, and it just so happens Logos 4 has BDAG in it.  You are saying that you should delete BDAG out of my new LOGOS 4 package because I had it in the past, and sold it, gifted it, or returned it?   What difference does that make on the package I have vs the package I'm upgrading to?  I'm PAYING to upgrade to the new collection, EVERYTHING that's in it.  If you take out something out of the new package we are buying, then we aren't getting what we paid for, since we pay for  everything that comes on the list of products that says is included with the new package. (which is what you are saying you are doing for me and others that have resources we bought separate - you are basically taking them out of the new package we are buying.) 

 

This is one of the reason I have trouble with electronic books.  (Logos, Kindle, etc...). It's very confusing who OWNS the books.  Recently amazon got into a lot of trouble by deleting 1984 off of people's kindle who felt that they owed the book, and even though it was a digital book, it should be treated just like a hard copy. (it certainly no cheaper)  If I would had bought BDAG for 100 bucks, and later bought someone library and that library included BDAG I would have 2 copies of BDAG, but with it being electronic "books" there are so many loop-holes that make it unclear to the consumer what we are purchasing, and what is "ours."  Then when things are unclear, we don't really understand our rights to the items we believe we are "purchasing" and then posts like this pop up. (You never see forums like this over hard copy books.  You buy a book - you own it.  It's very clear.  It's not so clear when dealing with electronic books.) 

I apologize for the tone of this post, but it's frustrating when you are unclear on your ownership rights, and you contact the only ones who you know you can provide you with clarity, and they give you misleading information.  (And in the end the consumer has no idea if they info is right or wrong, I'd have to do tons of research to find out who is right, and what my ownership rights really are.)  Things are just to unclear. (even the upgrade paths that I have heard are different prices for people with the exact same resources,  different prices when calling in, different prices when logging into your account, etc.  Just very unclear to me.  

 

Again, you don't have these sorts of issues with printed books. 

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 6 2009 12:31 AM

RickSmith:

"Maybe we don't allow license transfers of anything included in the highest level you've purchased. And if you transfer first, and then upgrade, we remove from your discount collection anything transfered"

 

I don't understand this. Why would you move from the new collection anything transferred?  That doesn't make sense.

That's not how I understood it when I read it.   I was thinking discount collection is the collection of all licenses that would be used to calculate the discount amount for upgrade packages.  And that made sense.

If he meant it how you understood it, then I'd have to agree that it doesn't make sense.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Page 2 of 3 (45 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS