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Posts 96
Randy Egliht | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Sep 18 2011 8:46 PM

Hope this is not a repeat, but could anybody share their opinion when Logos might make the New International Version available for mobile devices?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2011 11:27 PM

Randy - 

The official view of Logos is that every resource you own SHOULD be available to you on any device you use. Unfortunately, not all publishers agree. In the case of the NIV, the issue is with Zondervan. There is a debate on the forums frequently about Logos giving in and selling separate licenses for the NIV on the mobile app. It is my opinion that this would be a horrible move, and I believe this is the reason we have yet to see the NIV. If Logos caved on this issue, why wouldn't every publisher demand a separate license for use on mobile devices? Personally, I would rather forgo the NIV on the LOGOs app (it is free, after all, on a prominent, non-profit app), and to be able to  keep the 80% availability of my other resources.

By the way, if you are unsure about a topic being a "repeat," you can always search the forums. Personally many of us use google search. The search would look something like this:

site:community.logos.com NIV mobile app

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Posts 235
Tom Geswein | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 3:10 AM

This has become a really sore issue with me.  Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it.  The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos.  My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way :)).  One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might.  I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  I will be calling them later today...

"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell."  -  Beyond Our Suffering - AILD

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 4:44 AM

Let us know what they say. Remind them that you have a license already - just that Zondervan won't allow you to use it on your mobile device.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 6:39 AM

Tom Geswein:

This has become a really sore issue with me.  Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it.  The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos.  My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way :)).  One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might.  I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... 
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  I will be calling them later today...


Maybe 20,000 calls, emails or letters on church letter head stating something like:
“”Our church is about ready to replace their pew Bibles.  We will need 300 <<enter number that you are ready to purchase here>>. We had been using the NIV 1984 and realize that we now need to order the new version.  We have noticed that you require our members to buy a new license for every software Bible reader that they own.  We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software.  Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use.   Signed << Pastor, Treasurer, Church Clerk >> of << name of church >>””


[[It is NOT going to happen but I can wish pray]]

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 7:03 AM

David Ames:
We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software.  Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use. 

This is not even the issue. Zondervan should not have to give away the NIV for Free. They are a business run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. The issue isn't getting FREE Bibles, but rather allowing us to use the license that we have ALREADY PAID FOR to be used on multiple devices. In your sample letter, "the price of the basic software" does not allow for Zondervan to be compensated. I don't think anyone is asking for that.

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Posts 2864
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 7:45 AM

Just a suggestion that many won't like. Find a Bible translation that is not owned by non-believers and therefore handcuffed to their wallet.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 7:55 AM

Any suggestions?

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 8:22 AM

alabama24:

Any suggestions?

If you are requesting a suggestion of a Bible translation not owned by non-believers then I would say there are many very good ones.

HCSB and ESV are my two favorite.

NASB is a close third for careful study.

NET is another great one.

All of these are owned by believers who love the Bible rather than see it as a cash cow. In fact ESV is often one translation that you can find in free apps because it has a much more generous licensing situation.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 9:41 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

If you are requesting a suggestion of a Bible translation not owned by non-believers then I would say there are many very good ones.

HCSB and ESV are my two favorite.

Not being familiar with the Holman Christian Study Bible (HBSC) I cannot comment on that one but I find the ESV to be an excellently readable translation and not to be a problem when others are following in the NIV as I explore the word.

There are so many problems with the NIV84, NIV2010 change over that I think now would be a good time to jump ship. I am not suggesting churches go to the expense of ditching loads of NIV84s just for the sake of change - I do think though a gradual change might be effected - after all you have to change something when new or replacement Bibles are needed. 

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 2838
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:33 AM

alabama24:

This is not even the issue. Zondervan should not have to give away the NIV for Free. They are a business run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. The issue isn't getting FREE Bibles, but rather allowing us to use the license that we have ALREADY PAID FOR to be used on multiple devices. In your sample letter, "the price of the basic software" does not allow for Zondervan to be compensated. I don't think anyone is asking for that.

OK.  Buy a Hard Copy and use on any Bible Software - Controlled by password hard coded inside the Hard copy - [''We are sorry but that hard coded password has already been used by another user of Logos Software'' [do not buy if the plastic wrap is torn!] ] Buy ONE copy and use anywhere - Zondervan cost me for my hard copy, cost me for Logos, cost me for an other version - Logos is RIGHT - Pay once use everywhere -  not pay everywhere.

Posts 2838
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:40 AM

In light of “Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums”    

Question: is questioning the pricing policy of publishers a theology debate ?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:49 AM

David Ames:
OK.  Buy a Hard Copy and use on any Bible Software

I am not sure what you are saying. When you purchase most base packages, you pay for an NIV license. I believe (as does Logos) that you should be able to view that resource on all devices that Logos operates on. I do NOT believe that when you purchase a dead tree version that you should automatically receive an electronic copy, unless that copy has been figured into the cost of the dead tree version.

David Ames:
Logos is RIGHT - Pay once use everywhere -  not pay everywhere.

If you mean to imply that Logos feels you should have electronic access to any hard copy book you purchase, you are wrong. That would undercut their business model. If you mean that Logos believes you should be able to use your Logos purchased license on any mobile device they have an app for, you are correct.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 10:59 AM

David Ames:

In light of “Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums”    

Question: is questioning the pricing policy of publishers a theology debate ?

No. Why would it be?

 

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Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 12:15 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Just a suggestion that many won't like. Find a Bible translation that is not owned by non-believers and therefore handcuffed to their wallet.

See also this thread.  Moo and Carson NT introduction - Logos Bible Software Forums

Sounds like a boycott is in the air.  Let me be the first to sign the declaration of independence.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 2864
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 1:05 PM

alabama24:
I am not sure what you are saying. When you purchase most base packages, you pay for an NIV license. I believe (as does Logos) that you should be able to view that resource on all devices that Logos operates on. I do NOT believe that when you purchase a dead tree version that you should automatically receive an electronic copy, unless that copy has been figured into the cost of the dead tree version.

I don't think anyone is saying you "should" as in you have a legal or moral right to it. I do believe that this is a way for publishers to support the body of Christ and the church in general if they have a mission of building the kingdom of God by offering resources to help people read, understand and share the scriptures. I just don't believe many Bible translation publishers have that as their primary mission regardless of their published mission statement and Z clearly is in it for the cash based on their actions.

I do remember in the past that I bought a hard copy of the ISV NT and guess what was included inside the front cover? A CD with a digital copy that was compatible with another company's bible software. I think the idea of showing customers their appreciation for buying a hard copy of a bible, something that is more costly to produce warehouse and distribute than a digital copy, they could offer a reduced cost or free digital copy and thus prove they are really in it to support the church in fulfilling its purpose and mission.

Posts 2838
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 6:31 PM

Hello alabama24;  Just suggesting that maybe it is time to change the rules.  That we support publishers that allow use of books in e-readers that we bought in hard copy – for no additional fees.  I am not interested in buying any book that is published by the publisher that we were talking about as they have forced me to pay over and over again for what they claim is the Word of God.

Re: Question: is questioning the pricing policy of publishers a theology debate?  Maybe the ‘theology’ of the publisher that we were talking about is to make the most money rather than to spread the Word of God.  Maybe it is time we examined the hearts of those that claim to be bringing us the Word of God?   Have they released a new version because the Word of God needs updating or just to make more money?  Are they of the world (make the most money by using ‘GOD’ as a tool) or are they of God? If they are more of the world should we trust them to give us the Pure Word of God?    [just asking]

[Yes, they own the copyrights so they can do as they please BUT…!]

Posts 388
MJD | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 8:38 PM

Tom Geswein:

This has become a really sore issue with me.  Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it.  The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos.  My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way :)).  One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might.  I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  I will be calling them later today...

I think you are miss-guided...

Zondervan owns the rights to the content, and they sell the license agreements.

If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.

I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan.  Why?

 

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 9:14 PM

MJD:

If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.

I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan.  Why?

You sound like this was a trivial little matter that Logos was negligent in doing. Bob has said:

Bob Pritchett:

We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission.

What more can you ask for?

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2011 9:18 PM

MJD:
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.

When did Logos negotiate the original contract? That would make a big difference in whether Logos should have been thinking in terms of mobile devices, wouldn't it?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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