NIV
Hope this is not a repeat, but could anybody share their opinion when Logos might make the New International Version available for mobile devices?
Comments
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Randy -
The official view of Logos is that every resource you own SHOULD be available to you on any device you use. Unfortunately, not all publishers agree. In the case of the NIV, the issue is with Zondervan. There is a debate on the forums frequently about Logos giving in and selling separate licenses for the NIV on the mobile app. It is my opinion that this would be a horrible move, and I believe this is the reason we have yet to see the NIV. If Logos caved on this issue, why wouldn't every publisher demand a separate license for use on mobile devices? Personally, I would rather forgo the NIV on the LOGOs app (it is free, after all, on a prominent, non-profit app), and to be able to keep the 80% availability of my other resources.
By the way, if you are unsure about a topic being a "repeat," you can always search the forums. Personally many of us use google search. The search would look something like this:
site:community.logos.com NIV mobile app
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This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way
). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...
"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell." - Beyond Our Suffering - AILD
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This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device...
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...
Maybe 20,000 calls, emails or letters on church letter head stating something like:
“”Our church is about ready to replace their pew Bibles. We will need 300 <<enter number that you are ready to purchase here>>. We had been using the NIV 1984 and realize that we now need to order the new version. We have noticed that you require our members to buy a new license for every software Bible reader that they own. We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software. Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use. Signed << Pastor, Treasurer, Church Clerk >> of << name of church >>””
[[It is NOT going to happen but I can wish pray]]0 -
We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software. Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use.
This is not even the issue. Zondervan should not have to give away the NIV for Free. They are a business run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. The issue isn't getting FREE Bibles, but rather allowing us to use the license that we have ALREADY PAID FOR to be used on multiple devices. In your sample letter, "the price of the basic software" does not allow for Zondervan to be compensated. I don't think anyone is asking for that.
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Just a suggestion that many won't like. Find a Bible translation that is not owned by non-believers and therefore handcuffed to their wallet.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
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Any suggestions?
If you are requesting a suggestion of a Bible translation not owned by non-believers then I would say there are many very good ones.
HCSB and ESV are my two favorite.
NASB is a close third for careful study.
NET is another great one.
All of these are owned by believers who love the Bible rather than see it as a cash cow. In fact ESV is often one translation that you can find in free apps because it has a much more generous licensing situation.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
If you are requesting a suggestion of a Bible translation not owned by non-believers then I would say there are many very good ones.
HCSB and ESV are my two favorite.
Not being familiar with the Holman Christian Study Bible (HBSC) I cannot comment on that one but I find the ESV to be an excellently readable translation and not to be a problem when others are following in the NIV as I explore the word.
There are so many problems with the NIV84, NIV2010 change over that I think now would be a good time to jump ship. I am not suggesting churches go to the expense of ditching loads of NIV84s just for the sake of change - I do think though a gradual change might be effected - after all you have to change something when new or replacement Bibles are needed.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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This is not even the issue. Zondervan should not have to give away the NIV for Free. They are a business run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. The issue isn't getting FREE Bibles, but rather allowing us to use the license that we have ALREADY PAID FOR to be used on multiple devices. In your sample letter, "the price of the basic software" does not allow for Zondervan to be compensated. I don't think anyone is asking for that.
OK. Buy a Hard Copy and use on any Bible Software - Controlled by password hard coded inside the Hard copy - [''We are sorry but that hard coded password has already been used by another user of Logos Software'' [do not buy if the plastic wrap is torn!] ] Buy ONE copy and use anywhere - Zondervan cost me for my hard copy, cost me for Logos, cost me for an other version - Logos is RIGHT - Pay once use everywhere - not pay everywhere.
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In light of “Please stop the theology wars in Logos forums”
Question: is questioning the pricing policy of publishers a theology debate ?
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OK. Buy a Hard Copy and use on any Bible Software
I am not sure what you are saying. When you purchase most base packages, you pay for an NIV license. I believe (as does Logos) that you should be able to view that resource on all devices that Logos operates on. I do NOT believe that when you purchase a dead tree version that you should automatically receive an electronic copy, unless that copy has been figured into the cost of the dead tree version.
Logos is RIGHT - Pay once use everywhere - not pay everywhere.
If you mean to imply that Logos feels you should have electronic access to any hard copy book you purchase, you are wrong. That would undercut their business model. If you mean that Logos believes you should be able to use your Logos purchased license on any mobile device they have an app for, you are correct.
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Just a suggestion that many won't like. Find a Bible translation that is not owned by non-believers and therefore handcuffed to their wallet.
See also this thread. Moo and Carson NT introduction - Logos Bible Software Forums
Sounds like a boycott is in the air. Let me be the first to sign the declaration of independence.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
I am not sure what you are saying. When you purchase most base packages, you pay for an NIV license. I believe (as does Logos) that you should be able to view that resource on all devices that Logos operates on. I do NOT believe that when you purchase a dead tree version that you should automatically receive an electronic copy, unless that copy has been figured into the cost of the dead tree version.
I don't think anyone is saying you "should" as in you have a legal or moral right to it. I do believe that this is a way for publishers to support the body of Christ and the church in general if they have a mission of building the kingdom of God by offering resources to help people read, understand and share the scriptures. I just don't believe many Bible translation publishers have that as their primary mission regardless of their published mission statement and Z clearly is in it for the cash based on their actions.
I do remember in the past that I bought a hard copy of the ISV NT and guess what was included inside the front cover? A CD with a digital copy that was compatible with another company's bible software. I think the idea of showing customers their appreciation for buying a hard copy of a bible, something that is more costly to produce warehouse and distribute than a digital copy, they could offer a reduced cost or free digital copy and thus prove they are really in it to support the church in fulfilling its purpose and mission.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Hello alabama24; Just suggesting that maybe it is time to change the rules. That we support publishers that allow use of books in e-readers that we bought in hard copy – for no additional fees. I am not interested in buying any book that is published by the publisher that we were talking about as they have forced me to pay over and over again for what they claim is the Word of God.
Re: Question: is questioning the pricing policy of publishers a theology debate? Maybe the ‘theology’ of the publisher that we were talking about is to make the most money rather than to spread the Word of God. Maybe it is time we examined the hearts of those that claim to be bringing us the Word of God? Have they released a new version because the Word of God needs updating or just to make more money? Are they of the world (make the most money by using ‘GOD’ as a tool) or are they of God? If they are more of the world should we trust them to give us the Pure Word of God? [just asking]
[Yes, they own the copyrights so they can do as they please BUT…!]
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This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way
). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...
I think you are miss-guided...
Zondervan owns the rights to the content, and they sell the license agreements.
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why?
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If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why?
You sound like this was a trivial little matter that Logos was negligent in doing. Bob has said:
We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission.
What more can you ask for?
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If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
When did Logos negotiate the original contract? That would make a big difference in whether Logos should have been thinking in terms of mobile devices, wouldn't it?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why?
You sound like this was a trivial little matter that Logos was negligent in doing. Bob has said:
We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission.
What more can you ask for?
How you got "sound" out of a written email is beyond my comprehension. Who said trivial? YOU DID.
Your post is almost funny... [Y]
Zondervan would be more than happy to allow Logos to use the NIV on mobile devices.
But, yes -- you guessed it, for a fee! It is called compensation. Novel concept, pay the fee, and it is ALLOWED.
I realize technology, and anticipated usage of Logos has changed drastically over the last 20 years.
But, that is why contract language is critical when you strike a deal with a publisher. You must (try) to consider the future possibilities and include that usage into the license agreement.
Clearly the language in the original contract did not allow Logos to use mobile devices, and now Zondervan is the one to blame.
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If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
When did Logos negotiate the original contract? That would make a big difference in whether Logos should have been thinking in terms of mobile devices, wouldn't it?
Really, jeeezz... do you think???[I]
Why do you blame Zondervan?
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Why do you blame Zondervan?
I didn't know that I blamed anyone. What did I miss?[:^)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Why do you blame Zondervan?
I didn't know that I blamed anyone. What did I miss?
Please state your thoughts then...
Does Zondervan have the right to charge a fee for allowing use of the NIV on a mobile device?
I view this kind of like a resource package purchase from Logos, when you buy a big bundle your price is typically much cheaper. If you don't buy the book while it is bundled you will probably pay more for the book.
However there are some exceptions -- Zondervan is one of them -- look at their book bundles, look at how they don't discount the bundles very much, if at all, they price for each resource.
I think that is their go to market strategy. I don't like Zondervan's model, but they own the resource.
It is unfortunate that the Logos license agreement did not have the mobile rights.
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Please state your thoughts then...
My thoughts are simple:
- I don't use the NIV enough to care one way or the other
- I don't have information on the contract or the negotiations between Zondervan & Logos
- I see no reason why I should bother to put the effort into having an informed opinion
- I prefer no opinion to an uninformed or ill-formed opinion
- the following quotation shows me that there may be a third party to the negotiations - which tells me I've spent far to much time on this response:
"Guidelines related to displaying portions of the New International
Version (NIV) Bible on your web site are governed by the copyright
holder, Biblica. Learn more about the NIV Bible on their web site. Information about the copyright is posted on their Terms of Use page.
Quoting from their Terms of Use page ...
The NIV®, TNIV®, NIrV® may be quoted in any form (written, visual,
electronic or audio) up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses
without the express written permission of the publisher, providing the
verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the
verses quoted account for more than 25 percent (25%) or more of the
total text of the work in which they are quoted. For additional rights
and permission usage on the NIV®, NIrV® and the TNIV® Bible please contact Biblica.
Additional permissions were sought and granted for usage of the text on the WELS.net web site.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Please state your thoughts then...
My thoughts are simple:
- I don't use the NIV enough to care one way or the other
- I don't have information on the contract or the negotiations between Zondervan & Logos
- I see no reason why I should bother to put the effort into having an informed opinion
- I prefer no opinion to an uninformed or ill-formed opinion
- the following quotation shows me that there may be a third party to the negotiations - which tells me I've spent far to much time on this response:
"Guidelines related to displaying portions of the New International
Version (NIV) Bible on your web site are governed by the copyright
holder, Biblica. Learn more about the NIV Bible on their web site. Information about the copyright is posted on their Terms of Use page.
Quoting from their Terms of Use page ...
The NIV®, TNIV®, NIrV® may be quoted in any form (written, visual,
electronic or audio) up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses
without the express written permission of the publisher, providing the
verses quoted do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the
verses quoted account for more than 25 percent (25%) or more of the
total text of the work in which they are quoted. For additional rights
and permission usage on the NIV®, NIrV® and the TNIV® Bible please contact Biblica.
Additional permissions were sought and granted for usage of the text on the WELS.net web site.This is makes no sense...
Zondervan owns the rights to the NIV
I understand when you say you are uninformed... Clearly!
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I understand when you say you are uninformed... Clearly!
Yeah, I should never trust the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod to know whow they negotiated with.[:P]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I understand when you say you are uninformed... Clearly!
Yeah, I should never trust the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod to know who they negotiated with.
Funny...
[Y]touché
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You know it is a funny thing as for the past 22 months, logos has told us that they will not make us pay for a second license to view what we have already paid for, and there will be no exceptions. 22 months, yes 22 months, and each and every week someone asks where is the NIV, and we politely give them the same answer each and every week... the information does not change. Some one recently stated that unless logos knows that we are unhappy, then things will never change, and I agree. But this has been going on for 22 months, not 22 days, but 22 months, so yes, logos knows that your unhappy. Based on the comments that Logos has made over the past 22 months of griping and complaining, I think that Logos has gotten the idea that you and many others want the NIV. And thankfully, Logos is not going to bend on this, as otherwise all of the other publishers will want extra compensation as well... And some of you have even said that you are being forced to go to another app to get your precious NIV... so do it already. This weekly if not daily bickering that has been going on for guess what.... 22 months, is old. As I understand it, from the software that we all use that we believe that we are Christians, but from the sounds of things over the past 22 months, I seriously doubt it. Honestly, if you are unhappy with the fact that you don't have the NIV, then please, today, right now, jump ship, don't wait, just do it. you know my kids, never acted this way, so why do the adults... am I angry, no, just thoroughly feed up with the constant whining, griping, and complaining. Please, for the sake of sanity and this forum, put an end to this behavior and do a little bible study and maybe we will all begin to appreciate God's Word, more than the NIV. Sorry for the rant, but this is gone way past old.
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You know it is a funny thing as for the past 22 months, logos has told us that they will not make us pay for a second license to view what we have already paid for, and there will be no exceptions. 22 months, yes 22 months, and each and every week someone asks where is the NIV, and we politely give them the same answer each and every week... the information does not change. Some one recently stated that unless logos knows that we are unhappy, then things will never change, and I agree. But this has been going on for 22 months, not 22 days, but 22 months, so yes, logos knows that your unhappy. Based on the comments that Logos has made over the past 22 months of griping and complaining, I think that Logos has gotten the idea that you and many others want the NIV. And thankfully, Logos is not going to bend on this, as otherwise all of the other publishers will want extra compensation as well... And some of you have even said that you are being forced to go to another app to get your precious NIV... so do it already. This weekly if not daily bickering that has been going on for guess what.... 22 months, is old. As I understand it, from the software that we all use that we believe that we are Christians, but from the sounds of things over the past 22 months, I seriously doubt it. Honestly, if you are unhappy with the fact that you don't have the NIV, then please, today, right now, jump ship, don't wait, just do it. you know my kids, never acted this way, so why do the adults... am I angry, no, just thoroughly feed up with the constant whining, griping, and complaining. Please, for the sake of sanity and this forum, put an end to this behavior and do a little bible study and maybe we will all begin to appreciate God's Word, more than the NIV. Sorry for the rant, but this is gone way past old.
I hope you feel better Rev. Kelly Todd...[:^)]
The good news is that the "Good News" has set us free (Christians that is!)
This is a forum and open discussion is welcome! I am sorry you don't feel this way.
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I felt that way for a long time, but this bickering and fighting, is no longer serving any useful purpose.
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