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Posts 4
@NewGeneva | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 20 2012 3:20 PM

Bob Pritchett, When will highlighting be available for the iPad? I believe you said last June (2011) that it was coming "very soon." Please don't tell me 2000 years!  Could you please clarify this? Thank you.

Posts 498
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 20 2012 3:26 PM

Anthony,

Should be in another week or two.

When Logos 4.5 goes gold (already in release candidate), then shortly afterward they will release the Logos 2.0 iOS app (which has already been submitted to the App Store).

This information comes straight from Bob Pritchett. Let me see if I can track down what he actually said...

Found it!

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/5923/321264.aspx#321264

Bob Pritchett:

I'm very sorry for the frustration about sync. I've experienced a bug in it myself, and it's very annoying.

We haven't changed the copy on the app page because it's still accurate: the app does sync reading plans.

There is, however (as in so many software packages), a bug. This bug apparently shows up when you have a synced plan you're reading on two devices, and change the document (usually by marking a reading read) on Device B before Device A has finished syncing the change. Normally we should be able to gracefully handle this conflict, but there's a bug we haven't found. Even more importantly, you shouldn't come across the situation very often, because syncing should be nearly instantaneous.

The original sync framework was designed for desktop software, which typically has different behaviors than mobile software. Your desktop software can typically sync large documents with few problems, and typically is either connected or disconnected -- it rarely is moving in and out of sporadic and/or slow coverage the way a phone does.

Moreover, we only have so many desktop Logos Bible Software users.

To accommodate mobile syncing, we had to build an intermediate service with different performance / bandwidth / etc. characteristics. 

Since then we've had literally 10 times as many people download our mobile app as ever used the desktop, dramatically increasing our bandwidth.

This extra large user base, bandwidth requirement, less consistent "sync before quitting the app" behavior, etc. are what cause the increased frequency of Device A (your mobile device) not having completed syncing before you go to Device B (your desktop or other device) and modify the document there. So our previously rare bug is occurring a lot more.

We've learned a lot about the less reliable/consistent behavior of mobile Internet connections (which were not part of our original design).

(This is also why we've been unable to deliver mobile notes and highlighting so far -- the document architecture and bandwidth needs.)

So we embarked on a complete re-write of the sync framework designed for millions of users and a wide variety of devices with much less reliable / consistent data connections. The new sync framework requires a lot less bandwidth for common behaviors, too.

 

The new sync framework is basically done, and ready to deploy for v4.5 of the desktop and v2.0 of mobile apps. The v2.0 version of the iOS app is in the app store and ready for release when the desktop is ready.  This features Sync v2 for what had been the number one user demand -- notes and highlighting on iOS devices.

We're right now (and I mean right now -- it's late on Thursday night and much of our team is here working away at the office) hunting down and eliminating performance bugs in the Sync v2 framework. It's a big, big change and it involves user data, so we want to be very careful to get everything right.

Sometime very soon we'll ship a desktop v4.5 Release Candidate. Within a week of that release we'll make it final, and it'll roll out to everyone. Within a day or so of that we should be able to release the new iOS app with notes and highlighting syncing

 

In parallel, developers are working to get Reading Plans to Sync v2 as well. This may still be a few weeks out; I very much wish it wasn't, and we're all acutely aware that many people start reading plans on January 1, and we're disappointed that we were unable to deliver this before then. And, until recently, we thought we'd be able to, or that the release was right around the corner. But there are 50+ people on the development team, and the holidays introduced 50+ differing vacation schedules, and quite a few people have a piece of such a large system migration, so communication has suffered. 

But we're almost all back (by Monday everyone is, I believe) and we're putting everything together and shipping it as soon as we can.

Just as trivia... we're also deploying a massive amount of new storage, servers, and firewalls to handle the increased load. This is itself a non-trivial project.

And, of course, we still have other products and features (Logos Mac, for example) on which other users rightly desire our attention. I'm sorry reading plans aren't  first on the list -- they're important to me, too! -- but I know that lack of notes and highlighting on mobile was equally important to other "I'm going to write you a bad review in the app store!" users -- right after lack of NIV support. :-) But at least we were able to add that recently. 

I know this doesn't fix the pain point, but I hope it helps you understand where we're at, and why we're doing things the way we are. Sync v2 should result in a superior experience very soon.

In the meantime, you might make a reading plan and try to either just use it on mobile, or give the mobile app some time to sync while connected to the Internet before going back to the home page (or at least before you mark off a reading on another device). This should reduce your chance of hitting the bug.

-- Bob

Posts 13411
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 20 2012 3:26 PM

This question has been answered several times recently. The iPad app has been updated for highlighting, but has not yet been made available. That's because the new app requires Logos 4.5 to sync with, and 4.5 isn't ready yet. However, 4.5 is in release candidate stage, which means it is very, very close to being made available. Yesterday the lead developer said it would be within two weeks.

Posts 1
J. C Magallanes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 9:25 AM

Yes it's very frustrating to see other free bible apps with all these cool features, and the one program I payed a bunch of money for can't come up with an app good enough to highlight, bookmark, make notes, adjust reading plans etc...

Posts 2784
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 10:15 AM

J. C Magallanes:

Yes it's very frustrating to see other free bible apps with all these cool features, and the one program I payed a bunch of money for can't come up with an app good enough to highlight, bookmark, make notes, adjust reading plans etc...

Before all the Logos apologists (of which I am one sometimes) tell you that the app is free, let me say that it's not free just because I don't pay money to Logos. The cost is built into the books and such that we bought when we bought Logos 4 base packages.

The good news - highlighting and notes on the iPad seems to be immanent not "coming soon" in the biblical sense that most people misunderstand it but in the truly biblical sense in that it will come at an instant and in the modern sense as in it won't be long now.

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 10:35 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

Before all the Logos apologists (of which I am one sometimes) tell you that the app is free, let me say that it's not free just because I don't pay money to Logos. The cost is built into the books and such that we bought when we bought Logos 4 base packages.

I am eager for the improved app, rather than frustrated, but I do think you are quite correct on this point, Kevin.

As soon as Logos began to advertise that certain resources were available on multiple devices, customers began, potentially, to make decisions regarding there purchasing options on the basis of that advertisement. In this sense, the app is not free, but part of the advertised functionality of L4.

However, I am pleased with the (in my view) improvement to notes in 4.5 and am excited by the now impending deployment of the app.

On release, I may even buy a new book to celebrate Wink.

Andy

Posts 60
Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 3:41 PM

So, Olive Tree, the less expensive alternative, just came out with a desktop program today.  I have done my studies on Olive Tree on my iphone where I highlighted like crazy.  So, the desktop version came out and I synced it on my desktop, iphone and ipad and can you believe it?  ALL MY HIGHLIGHTING IS ON EACH PLATFORM!

Here, I was thinking it could not be done after months and months of hearing it would happen soon and little old Olive Tree that costs a TON less the Logos was able to have my highlights and notes all sync so nicely.

 

hmmmmmmm

 

Posts 112
Chad M. Foster | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 3:57 PM

But can you run a search on any Greek word and get ever usage in the GNT, LXX, Philo, Josephus, Perseus, and the Apostolic Fathers and have them returned in less than 5 seconds total?  I can.  We have to consider the full scope of what this program is to be and it is not to be a simple reader like Olive Tree.  Bob has made t clear over and over that this is a powerful research tool and that the priorities have been established based on that.

Posts 13411
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 4:22 PM

OliveTree is a mobile specialist. They have the best mobile solution (at least until Logos 2 comes out, perhaps!), and a VERY basic desktop edition that frankly has less features that Logos for iPhone. 9 out of 10 for the mobile app, 2 out of 10 for the desktop app.

Logos is a desktop specialist. They have the best desktop solution, and a pretty strong mobile edition that lacks one or two critical features but is otherwise superb. 9 out of 10 for the desktop app, 7 out of 10 for the mobile app.

As a package (mobile+desktop) OliveTree doesn't get anywhere near Logos.

Posts 77
Dale Garman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 7:27 PM

of course we all have our own opinions based on how we use the products.  I would agree that as a desktop application Logos is very strong.  I would disagree, however, about the mobile app rating.  At best it is 2 or 3 in my opinion.  That will improve if the long promised notes and highlighting comes.  However, until it has significant functionality offline, it will still be quite low as a mobile app in my opinion.  Depending on a wifi signal for functionality is very hit and miss.  It does have promise, but I think they were slow tor recognize that the future is mobile.  I hope they catch up because I have a big investment in the library. 

Posts 134
L.D. Young | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 7:37 PM

I've been using the OT app for several years now, mainly because they've provided (past tense soon) a service that Logos didn't or had a resouce that I wanted that Logos didn't. But once the new Logos app comes out, OT will be like the books on my shelf. I'll use them once in a while when I need them but when it comes serious Bible study, I'll be turning to Logos. The overall product is far superior.

Posts 2784
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 9:03 PM

Mark Barnes:

As a package (mobile+desktop) OliveTree doesn't get anywhere near Logos.

I think you drastically underestimate the OT desktop app. I get a lot of language study done simply and quickly with it. It doesn't do as much but it does the simple and most important hints really well quickly.

Posts 13411
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 1:55 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
the OT desktop app.

Even their website says only that its "very adequate for basic Bible study". I agree that the speed (and the nice clean look) is nice. It's fine for searching, and reading Bibles and Commentaries, but hardly does anything else. When ever I use Logos desktop I'm either writing a sermon or my thesis - and it can't do enough to help me substantially with either one. It would be great on a Windows 8 tablet if you need quick access to resources on the move, but I can't imagine a scenario where it could do all I needed.

Posts 13411
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 2:06 AM

Dale Garman:
I would disagree, however, about the mobile app rating.  At best it is 2 or 3 in my opinion.  That will improve if the long promised notes and highlighting comes.

I guess that depends on your perspective. For me, I need to be able to access scholarly resources like the Dead Sea Scrolls, Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary. and I need full interlinear functionality (normal and reverse) and so on, so I score OliveTree's desktop app poorly because it just can't do those things.

On a mobile device I'm not looking to study. I just want to be able to access my resources. So although OliveTree has a fabulous morphology search (just as one example), I've actually never used it. Personally, I rarely use notes and highlighting, so I don't miss that on Logos.

But I stand by my comment that the gap between the desktop apps is very significantly bigger than the gap between mobile apps (even though I think that BibleReader will still be a better app than Logos 2.0 will be).

Dale Garman:
the future is mobile

It seems to me that Logos absolutely get that, but they also get that the present is not mobile. And the short- and perhaps medium-term future will not be mobile for deeper Bible study such as that done for sermon preparation and academic writing. It would be truer to say that the future includes mobile.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 3:55 AM

Mark Barnes:
It would be truer to say that the future includes mobile.

True IMHO. And we still have to see what coming of Windows 8 and Ultrabooks to the market will do to whole Mobile platform.

Bohuslav

Posts 2784
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 5:42 AM

Mark Barnes:

Kevin A. Purcell:
the OT desktop app.

Even their website says only that its "very adequate for basic Bible study". I agree that the speed (and the nice clean look) is nice. It's fine for searching, and reading Bibles and Commentaries, but hardly does anything else. When ever I use Logos desktop I'm either writing a sermon or my thesis - and it can't do enough to help me substantially with either one. It would be great on a Windows 8 tablet if you need quick access to resources on the move, but I can't imagine a scenario where it could do all I needed.

Do you have any original language tools for OT. It does more than offer bible and commentary reading if you have those tools. If not then I can understand why you say that. Also one thing they can do that I couldn't do reliably for man months ... Sync notes, highlights bookmarks and reading plans.

Posts 60
Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 8:55 AM

While Logos has more features, OT is not shabby.  And OT has been able to do what has stumped Logos for many months- highlighting and syncing highlights.

 

When all we have gotten from Logos is "soon" for almost a year, OT has said, "here it is"

Posts 1471
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 9:14 AM

I think OT has a great future. Their prices are much cheaper than logos and their first edition of PC for the start is really great. I love their design as well A++++, very easy to read. Other features I believe will be added soon. They are rising a huge competition to logos which is very good because logos has to much expensive prices. For example, NIC commentary in OT you can buy without the whole set, for very affordable price. In logos you have to buy the whole set for the huge price and stick with some books which you didnt prefer to have. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 620
Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 9:33 AM

Steve:

When all we have gotten from Logos is "soon" for almost a year, OT has said, "here it is"

And how long has OT had a desktop app to go with the mobile highlighting?

I'm not trying to come across as a Logos "fanboy" here, but I think its kind of unreasonable to compare Logos with a company that has operated largely outside of the desktop market for nearly two decades. OT is in nearly an identical situation to Logos, only in reverse. OT stayed outside the desktop market for years, only to finally get back into the desktop market in Nov. 2011. Logos, on the other hand, has been all desktop until Nov. 2009. And since they moved into the mobile market they have been working feverishly to bring all of the requested features to iOS. They moved from L3 to L4 during this time, and have been desperately trying to hire new developers.

I understand wanting highlighting, but OT is not producing (IMO) a fully featured desktop app AND mobile sync. Within days, Logos will be offering both. And this being a mere 3 months behind a OT Mac desktop program, and only weeks behind a OT Windows desktop program.

Syntax Searching Group | Michigan Logos Users | L5 FAQ | OSX 10.10 | 2.4 GHz i5 | 8 GB Ram

Posts 60
Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 10:25 AM

I was sent an email 2 or 3 months ago saying a desktop version would come out by the end of January that would sync highlighting and notes between platforms and, by George, that is exactly what happened.

 

Say what you will, but I like that better of promises of "soon" for a year

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