A Plea for a Functional "Biblical Places" on Mac

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 15 2012 8:23 AM

I have reported bugginess with Logos for Mac's Biblical Places before, but it continues to be a very buggy aspect of Logos for Mac. Therefore, I am pleading with you, Logos, to make this aspect of Logos for Mac functional.

As it stands now, Biblical Places jumps, jolts, and stutters whenever I lookup a city/place. If I attempt to change maps it zooms way out, spikes my Mac's processor for several seconds, and then jolts all over the place before finally zooming in. I can't even scroll through the maps at the bottom of the Biblical Places screen without encounter stuttering. And I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have to go through eight zooming, stuttering, spasmatic map changes to find the one map you want/need. Yes, I can preview the maps by hovering, but I rarely find the best map on my first couple of attempts.

I appreciate the functionality that Biblical Places is attempting to provide (i.e. measuring of distances, linking to google earth, showing the relationships between maps, etc). However, at this point a simple slideshow format to the maps would be much better for study. All I want to do is access the maps I have in my library, but I cannot. At this point, the functionality of the Logos "Atlas" is actually worse than using a dead-tree version.

Therefore, I ask: Isn't this program supposed to be saving my time? As it stands now it takes me five minutes to do what I can do in a book in about 30 seconds with a ruler.

This seems like such basic functionality for a Bible program, I cannot believe I am even having to ask for this to be fixed.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 9:31 AM

+1 Yes for option to turn off animation in Biblical Places; possibly with a button next to Fit for a zoom out and in when desired for location overview.

Using Logos 4.5b SR-1, opened Biblical Places, then searched for Jerusalem, scrolled bottom completely to the left so had 4 maps with white backgrounds on left side, then clicked far left map, started stopwatch timer, then clicked each map to the right, waiting for animation to complete before clicking next map.  Stopped on the 15th map, which has a white background.

Couple maps took over 20 seconds to zoom out, show Mediterranean Sea (with long enough pause to wonder if Logos 4.5b SR-1 had stopped working on request for a Jerusalem map), then scroll until map fit window (with animation placing destination map a bit off center while zooming in).  To click 15 maps, took 4 minutes 24 seconds on an iMac with 2.93 GHz i7, which is an average of 17.6 seconds.

In contrast, Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Windows 7 took 49 seconds to click the same 15 maps for Jerusalem, an average of 3.3 seconds (tolerable).  The map zoom out was only enough to show boundaries of new map, then zoomed in to fit and center map in floating window.  Also noticed G button in Windows for another feature parity difference:

Updated wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity with two references to this thread:

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 10:07 AM

Thanks Jonathan! I didn't know you could scroll through the maps/images at the bottom using the arrow keys (I'm on the PC version).

But you're right ... even on the PC version the animation is nutty (when scrolling). Looks like they were applying 'googlification', so us trendy Logos users would feel even more trendy.

I know you're speaking to the Mac, but I think they ought to take the whole map/image routines and calm down their trendiness. On a touch screen you can't zoom in. The maps are random (ever seen a Bible with the maps in the back all random?). You have to mouse over the little images just to see what they are; I'm not sure who thought the thumbnails for maps made sense. If you see a map you like, try finding it later (yes there's 'search').

But yes .. first bring the Mac routines up to speed.


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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 12:33 PM

Jonathan:
I can't even scroll through the maps at the bottom of the Biblical Places screen without encounter stuttering.

What do you mean? Is there a way to scroll through the maps? The only way I've found to get to the 'hidden' maps is to click the right arrow one time for each new map.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Updated wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity with two references to this thread:

You can also add that on Mac one has to click the arrow once for each new map; on PC (as I remember Mark's video) one can click-and-hold and the maps keep moving (the shortcut bar arrows do that on Mac, but not the Biblical Places arrows). For 20 months now I've wanted to look at all my Jerusalem maps, but it takes so many clicks that I've always given up.

To make it even more weird I just realized the arrow on the upper ribbon in Biblical places works in neither of these two ways, but in a third: you can't hold, you have to click and let go, but when you do, it doesn't move one step like the maps, but all the visible columns move out of sight and the next set appears. Don't know how the PC works here.

In other words I have 3 visible right arrows above each other -- shortcut bar, upper ribbon and lower/map ribbon -- and they all work in different ways. Yeah, that's consistent...

I do have the G button, though, so if you don't it's yet another regression (I'm still on 4.5a).

Jonathan:
Isn't this program supposed to be saving my time?

Save? By now I'd be shouting with joy if they could get this program to work well enough to let me do half as much work as I could if I had these books on paper... I probably haven't done 2 weeks worth of work in the last 20 months -- unless you count the thousands of hours I've worked for Logos without pay. Or worse than without pay, as I am, after all, paying for the 'privilege' of finding and reporting the bugs they should have found and removed before release.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 5:14 PM

fgh:
I do have the G button, though, so if you don't it's yet another regression (I'm still on 4.5a).

Score another point for 4.5b. Has Logos even acknowledged these regressions?

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 5:22 PM

Jack Caviness:

fgh:
I do have the G button, though, so if you don't it's yet another regression (I'm still on 4.5a).

Score another point for 4.5b. Has Logos even acknowledged these regressions?

I find it ironic that the UserVoice Feature Parity Suggestion states "This is an ongoing effort, and while we don’t have an exact date for when it will be completed, each major release will increase the parity between Mac and Windows." Yet one word that is often repeated in the feature parity entry on the Logos wiki is "regression."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2012 8:02 PM

Jonathan:

Jack Caviness:

fgh:
I do have the G button, though, so if you don't it's yet another regression (I'm still on 4.5a).

Score another point for 4.5b. Has Logos even acknowledged these regressions?

I find it ironic that the UserVoice Feature Parity Suggestion states "This is an ongoing effort, and while we don’t have an exact date for when it will be completed, each major release will increase the parity between Mac and Windows." Yet one word that is often repeated in the feature parity entry on the Logos wiki is "regression."

While Logos 4.5b added social networking, have verified a dozen regressions so wiki Feature Parity list has many regression comments because Logos 4.5b on a Mac is a mixture of forward and backward progress.  Personally surprised by number of Logos 4.5b regressions on Mac.

When Logos improves feature parity between Mac and PC, anticipating (hoping) for Feature Parity list to become much smaller.  Wonder what progress to expect in Logos 4.5c ?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 2:22 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Wonder what progress to expect in Logos 4.5c ?

Surely it will be better than the "progress" of 4.5b Sad

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
have verified a dozen regressions

Actually, I counted 15 on the Wiki page Sad

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 6:41 AM

KS4J, was there a reason you didn't add the arrow bug[s ] I mentioned above?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 1:10 PM

fgh:

KS4J, was there a reason you didn't add the arrow bug[s ] I mentioned above?

Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Mac and PC have buggy arrow interaction for Biblical Places history navigation.  For example, start with Jerusalem, then enter Athens, followed by left history arrow to go back to Jerusalem: one click changed the maps, but not the location:

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 1:30 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Mac and PC have buggy arrow interaction for Biblical Places history navigation.

That was actually the one set of arrows I didn't mention in my post... Wink

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2012 3:24 PM

fgh:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Mac and PC have buggy arrow interaction for Biblical Places history navigation.

That was actually the one set of arrows I didn't mention in my post... Wink

Looking again, this time at second set of arrows in Biblical Places, learned Logos 4.5b SR-1 has one more visual difference:

Clicking right arrow scrolled all Jerusalem items, but arrow lacks lighter shade of grey to indicate end of scrolling list in Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Mac so added one more item to => Feature Parity list with reference to this thread:

  • PC Biblical Places has lighter color grey indicators for end of location list items, but Mac does not

Also checked location indicators in Logos 4.5a SR-1 on Mac to see indicators for location items always look the same, which is different than Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Windows.

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Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 9:26 PM

There are a lot of problems with Biblical Places/Logos Maps. The animation feature is more of a hassel than anything. My biggest gripe is it takes way TOOO long to load each map. For a program that is supposed to have everything on the hard drive, it takes just as long (if not longer that) it would take if they were online maps, pictures, books, etc. Scrolling in books (especially Bibles) takes longer than it does on most websites (major gripe here). Biblical Places have too few maps for specific Biblical events, and major highways are not highlighted in every map (very few of them in fact), and other roads going from towns (based upon geography of course) are completely excluded, so those who use Biblical Places won't have any idea of how people actually would have traveled (this is a major gripe for me. Since I am in the process of becoming a scholar, if the above things are not fixed, I will have to get Accordance at some point). I have listed many other gripes and suggestions for extending the Maps and Biblical Places in another thread. A MAJOR gripe of mine is that in larger maps (with many cities) the map does NOT EVER zoom TO the city, nor does it highlight it (making it easier to find). That NEEDS to change! The zooming all the way out and then back in (to the point that one can see the whole area of the map) is more trouble than it is worth. It should be 5 times faster than that. It should be "click on map, it pops up immediately showing the whole map specific area, with the city that is being searched for highlighted". There should also be the ability to add cities (especially if one is looking for specific cities within a certain area with certain things highlighted (such as topography, mountains or hill, valleys, etc.) so that we get what we want (since not every map has everything that I am looking for). Another gripe is that when I zoom in to a certain area and I want to print just that specific area that I am zoomed to, I can't. It prints the whole map area that is available in that view. Also, there should be the ability for us to highlight specific areas, routes, landmarks, topography, and print those highlights out (say for a class or a Bible Study, etc), but that is not possible either. Biblical Places is way TOO basic with not enough of the right things, but too much of the annoying things.

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 9:50 PM

Caleb S.:

There are a lot of problems with Biblical Places/Logos Maps.

Amen! 

Caleb S.:

The animation feature is more of a hassel than anything.

Preach It!

Caleb S.:

I will have to get Accordance at some point.

Done. Logos's failure to respond to these kind of issues keeps making Accordance Modules more and more attractive. [Logos: check my buying history and you will notice a steep decline in my buying history since about two months ago. Guess where those sales went!]

Caleb S.:

 too much of the annoying things.

So True!

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2012 10:17 PM

Amen Caleb, and it's not just in the maps area, it's a system wide issue for me.

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Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 8:26 AM

Just an FYI, there is a Logos User Voice suggestion "Reimagine" Maps - Have Non-Static Maps that you all can vote for (if you have not already).

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Tonya J Ross | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 10:55 AM

 

Jonathan:
As it stands now, Biblical Places jumps, jolts, and stutters whenever I lookup a city/place. If I attempt to change maps it zooms way out, spikes my Mac's processor for several seconds, and then jolts all over the place before finally zooming in. I can't even scroll through the maps at the bottom of the Biblical Places screen without encounter stuttering.

There is an existing case for examining the extra animation in maps.  I've updated the case with a link to this thread.  

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
PC Biblical Places has G button for Google Maps to show coordinates, which is missing on Mac

This issue should be resolved in 4.5c Beta 1.

fgh:
You can also add that on Mac one has to click the arrow once for each new map; on PC (as I remember Mark's video) one can click-and-hold and the maps keep moving (the shortcut bar arrows do that on Mac, but not the Biblical Places arrows).

I will make a case for this issue.

fgh:
To make it even more weird I just realized the arrow on the upper ribbon in Biblical places works in neither of these two ways, but in a third: you can't hold, you have to click and let go, but when you do, it doesn't move one step like the maps, but all the visible columns move out of sight and the next set appears. Don't know how the PC works here.

The ribbon arrows do scroll through the information using one-click on Windows rather than repeated clicks (which I will report.)  Moving all the visible columns offscreen is the same on both platforms.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos 4.5b SR-1 on Mac and PC have buggy arrow interaction for Biblical Places history navigation.  For example, start with Jerusalem, then enter Athens, followed by left history arrow to go back to Jerusalem: one click changed the maps, but not the location:

I am able to reproduce this issue and will report it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
PC Biblical Places has lighter color grey indicators for end of location list items, but Mac does not

I will report this issue. There is an active case for this issue.  I will add a link to this thread.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 1:31 PM

Tonya J Ross:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
PC Biblical Places has G button for Google Maps to show coordinates, which is missing on Mac

This issue should be resolved in 4.5c Beta 1.

It is fixed, but it is difficult to find a precise location. When the pointer is moved to click the big-G, the coordinates change. Had multiple views of Armenia before I realized what was happening.

Perhaps a means to lock-in a location would help.

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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 2:44 PM

If the old USENET style of newsgroups that Logos used to run was still around, you could find complaints about Logos Maps and multiple requests that Logos improve them. This is a request that is years old now. In the focus in text libraries, IMHO it has been a poor cousin for some time.... at least since Logos Bible Atlas there hasn't been anything to get excited about.

A MAJOR gripe of mine is that in larger maps (with many cities) the map does NOT EVER zoom TO the city, nor does it highlight it (making it easier to find). That NEEDS to change!

This is one of my many disappointments as well. I honestly don't know how anyone could call this user friendly.

I will have to get Accordance at some point)

It is light years ahead of Logos maps. Being able to turn on layers (different time periods, including modern locations), manipulate your map, distances, etc. and even click in an integrated way for graphics on a given location is really, really nice. It is my 'go to' for Maps every time.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 18 2012 3:11 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

I will have to get Accordance at some point)

It is light years ahead of Logos maps. Being able to turn on layers (different time periods, including modern locations), manipulate your map, distances, etc. and even click in an integrated way for graphics on a given location is really, really nice. It is my 'go to' for Maps every time.

Yes, this is one of the places where Accordance clearly outdistances the competition Yes

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