Upgrading

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This post has 312 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 31
Mitchell Borrows | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:11 PM

I like how you mentioned both your statuses.....Just sayin

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:22 PM

Joshua Coady:

This is where it breaks down for me. What features does my current package have that my new one will not and what features does my current one not have that I am getting for that $100? i.e. what is the net gain?

 

Joshua, I missed what package you have.  does it come earlier in this thread?  would you mind repeating it?  and what is the package you are "getting for 100"?  The short answer is that Gold gives you full features, Silver, all but one, the "Bible Sense" database.  If you go to http://www.logos.com/comparison and scroll down to "feature comparison", you will be able to see what you can get, or not.  Even Bronze gets you some new things.  check it out if you can, I'd be glad to hear your feedback.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 124
Randy Murphy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:23 PM

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:36 PM

Randy Murphy:

I think that expresses how I'm beginning to feel...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 98
Joshua Coady | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:37 PM

I'm not that far up. The upgrade page tells me "You own Bible Study Library (JG)". My option that isnt hundreds of dollars is the starter package for $67. It is described as "bare-bones" which concerns me which is why I went looking for a feature comparison, but there is nothing there in the features section (or even in any of the other resources sections) that states what I already have. I dont know the name of every feature I use.

Does L5 (any level) have the same feature set as L4 (any level) and L5 is just a superset of L4? With the understanding that some features require data to work and that data is not provided at every feature level. If I have the L4 data will I be able to use the feature that data goes with in L5?

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:38 PM

love it, Randy!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 40
Rick King | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:42 PM

I am also an Accordance user.  They just did a huge upgrade to version 10.  All the packaging changed.  You could remain in limbo land, so to speak, with all of your old resources still working just fine, for a charge of about 50 dollars for the new program. You could buy your way into the setup, which I did by purchasing into one of the new packages.  I wish they would have done it that way at Logos.  Give the bundles NEW NAMES and offer the engine upgrade for a fair and reasonable price.  If that means 100 dollars to be fair to them, that would be fine with me.  Somebody mentioned somewhere back there that they were ashamed to be part of the Logos community because we are all a bunch of sniveling whiners that are so ungrateful.  I just want to take the time to say a big THANK YOU to Logos for all their hard work.  It IS appreciated, however, I do think this upgrade could have been presented in a better way.  I just got off the phone with Logos and to get the full functionality in Logos, you have to be at least Gold.  They have pricing structured to give you larger discounts to get you at or above the same level you are now in the old system.  Your mileage may vary, but you will probably find that you will get your best deal to remain at your current position.  If you are Gold, Gold will be your best pricing point, etc.  With tax, I am looking at 750 dollars.  I will be adding a whole lot of cool new resources as well as the engine but I wasn't quite prepared for such a high cost.  At this point, there is no way to just purchase the new engine and the data sets.  There may never be such an option as it will make upgrading far more difficult in the future.  I suppose they could categorize you as a hybrid 4 user with a 4 package and base the pricing of all future upgrades on that.  That is a lot more headaches for accounting, marketing and the web site designers.  It would be far easier for them to just get everyone into the new system at one of the new levels that is going to be using 5.  I think that many people will continue to use the 4 system for some time to come as having a full featured older system is better than having a new system that is missing features.  The calculations you see on the website are correct.  They have used some advance pricing algorithm gizmo that only makes sense to the programmer locked in the broom closet in the basement and it is correctly applying discounts.  Things like the New American Commentary have had volumes added and others have been revised in some way.
What you see is what you pay if you wish to step up. If you want all the features, you have to pay for Gold.  They might give out the engine for free download later but it will not have all the features.  Data sets, at least currently, only have a price on them so as to reflect their value contribution to a bundle.  So, if you don't want to pay for Gold or higher and you are happy with 4, carry on.  Your resources are yours and will continue to work as they have been. 

Posts 28
David Dewberry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:49 PM

Mitchell Borrows:
Just got off with logos and they said the same thing to me as well.

 

For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with sales and I was told that a cross-grade would be available that includes the datasets.

Posts 31
Mitchell Borrows | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:52 PM

weird. I guess theres some confusion from customers and from staff. 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:52 PM

Joshua Coady:

I'm not that far up. The upgrade page tells me "You own Bible Study Library (JG)". My option that isnt hundreds of dollars is the starter package for $67. It is described as "bare-bones" which concerns me which is why I went looking for a feature comparison, but there is nothing there in the features section (or even in any of the other resources sections) that states what I already have. I dont know the name of every feature I use.

 

check this out, and see if it helps.  it is something you can see as well, i think.  I misspoke, too.  I meant "look at datasets".  feature distribution is also relevant, but not what I was talking about.  I don't think you will lose any "feature" you have in L4 going to L5, you just may not gain them all (new databases, eg), depending on your basepackage.

the stuff in L5 that is new--see "datasets"--that you may want, but will need to upgrade, are specially designed data that help you do, for example, more powerful searches using "fuzzy logic" in a sense.  Instead of just searching for "love" or "love NEAR Jesus", you can search for items that refer, for example, to God, but don't mention Him by name.  This is all pretty new to me, so my explanation may be a little simple and off, but I hope it gives you an idea.  Take a little time on the Logos website to watch their training videos or read about features and that should help you--and if you have questions after viewing those, check back on the forums, or this thread.

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 205
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Kent Hendricks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:17 PM

Chris Roberts:

Kent Hendricks:
The data sets will not be available individually. The only way to get the data sets is with a Logos 5 base package. We'll get the website corrected as soon as we can. Sorry for the confusion.

To be specific, that means no minimal crossgrade?

Chris, for now, there is no minimal crossgrade. We will likely make a minimal crossgrade option available in the future.

(My post was meant to simply clarify that there will not be a way to buy one data set individually, like the comparison chart incorrectly stated.)

Posts 10
Chris Giammona | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:24 PM

Gary

Where did you find it since no one else can find it.

Thanks

Chris

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:25 PM

Some observations....  critique welcome

Context:I've been using Logos since what ever version it was right before Libronix

A.  "You pay for the resources not the program"

This has been stated by users, and I do not recall the exact promise from years ago, has this exact statement been stated officially by Logos?

I know the current statement is "you don't pay for the engine" which I view as being a bit different.  Different because my quoted statement above, I believe, implies total use of the program.  This changed with L4 because of the need to have "data sets" to use some of the tools.   I upgraded to Gold to get access to all those wonderful tools.  Now I have Gold... but not really.  I have to "upgrade" to Gold AGAIN in order to use all the tools again. 

It helps me personally to understand I do actually pay for the program when it is upgraded.  This has been true for L4 and will obviously continue to be true.  If we do not get to use the program at the fully functional maximum unless we pay for it (you call it paying for resources) then would you please just tell us you made a promise you are no longer able to keep and that your sorry.  I understand about making promises you intended to keep when made but didn't take into account the future variables that were not known at the time of the original promise.

If it was originally stated, years ago, that we will only have to pay for resources and not the program (not simply the "engine") then we should have full function.  Otherwise please just stop making the claim. 

B.  My Advise

The program is what mainly draws your users (the resources are important but secondary, at least for me).  Let us use your program at its full function.  I will continue to buy resources because I love your program. 

Posts 194
KPK | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:28 PM

Jason Saling - www.NapavineBaptist.com:

Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me. Big Smile

Is it safe to say I  agree with you?!

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:38 PM

Kent Hendricks:

Chris, for now, there is no minimal crossgrade. We will likely make a minimal crossgrade option available in the future.

(My post was meant to simply clarify that there will not be a way to buy one data set individually, like the comparison chart incorrectly stated.)

Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

Posts 28
David Dewberry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:39 PM

J. Morris:
Some observations....  critique welcome

The disconnect is that L5 collections are completely new products, so maybe 'upgrade' isn't the best word.

an analogy:  the iphone 5 was an update of the Iphone 4s but that doesn't mean that Apple has to give iphone 5's to everyone who had an iphone 4s.

but your iphone 4s still works the same as before.

you bought L4 Gold.  you still have L4 Gold. But that does not entitle you to an entirely new product called L5 Gold.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:42 PM

Janice:

Jason Saling - www.NapavineBaptist.com:

Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me. Big Smile

Is it safe to say I  agree with you?!

...  The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called.  I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program.  This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.

We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it.  This semantics stuff bothers me....

 

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:47 PM

Bruce Roth:

Here is my 2 cents:

  1. It would have been better if Logos made it clear, (maybe on the upgrade page) that this is a special opportunity for you to upgrade from L4 to L5 and get a deal on some new resources that you don't currently have that are now part of the newly defined package. Or you can upgrade to a different package.  Also indicate that in the near future you will have the ability to do a cross upgrade (and explain what that is) if you want to wait a few weeks or so and don't want to spend the money on the resources.
  2. Explain in a market sense what the new packages are and what their equivalent was in the past.
  3. Explain that you don't loose anything of your original investment if you don't upgrade
  4. Make sure that folks understand that they need to have Gold in order to have all the new datasets

all fair requests that Logos should address immediately.

 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:48 PM

David Dewberry:

J. Morris:
Some observations....  critique welcome

The disconnect is that L5 collections are completely new products, so maybe 'upgrade' isn't the best word.

an analogy:  the iphone 5 was an update of the Iphone 4s but that doesn't mean that Apple has to give iphone 5's to everyone who had an iphone 4s.

but your iphone 4s still works the same as before.

you bought L4 Gold.  you still have L4 Gold. But that does not entitle you to an entirely new product called L5 Gold.

Actually, I am entitled to the new product if it was promised originally.  I don't care about the resources!!!!  If I am unable to FULLY use the new product w/o HAVING to pay something for it (I don't care what its called), then the original promise is not being honored.

Your right... it IS a completely new product.... and I was originally promised it (as were many others) before it came out.  Yes I do expect it for free because... I was promised it...  Thing is though... I would GLADLY pay for things to put into the new product (lets call them apps per your illustration) because I think the product ROCKS! 

Simple solution... Logos apologize for not being able to keep the original promise.. deal with the heat for a while...  move on...

Posts 62
Ken Hicks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:48 PM

This! Yes It's not about status and it never has been. It's about functionality. I don't need a whole bunch of additional commentaries I will never use (hello Wesleyan and Lange commentaries?) just to get the Sense data set to get me to full functionality if I upgrade. Everyone's mileage may vary though. Big Smile

 

J. Morris:

Jason Saling - www.NapavineBaptist.com:

Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name?

...  The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called.  I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program.  This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.

We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it.  This semantics stuff bothers me....

 

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