Bloated like Version 4? Pricing Concerns

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Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 8 2012 6:57 PM

I spoke with a rep today and was slightly bummed that I need to purchase a new package when I've already spent a few thousand bucks on resources.  I don't want any other "packages" I want the functionality of L5.  Now, I understand a version is coming out that will allow me to get the software but that's not available.  Why?  Is it because they want people to buy resources that I (and possibly others) will not need?  That's stinky....  Does Amazon charge for a new version of their reader?  Or any other type of "reader"......?

My other question is... is L5 bloated and slow like L4 or have they made improvements with their code / db?  I've got a good rig and it can be painfully slow.....

- Michael

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 7:01 PM

Yes, It's a bummer.

Yes, they are trying to sell a lot of upgrades, packages before offering the engine and cross grades.

No, you cannot get the full functionality of 5 without spending a bunch of money- something about "data sets" .

I do hear 5 is faster, smoother and pretty much what we were promised in version 4. Hope that helps.

 

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 7:07 PM

I think what would have solved this is for them to have released the application by itself that allows each of us the choices to purchase what new datasets we want.  Rather than having to upgrade "packages" and getting resources we do not need.......  

The above is what I should have said from the get-go... 

Take care!

- Michael

 

Posts 59
Eric Ruhnow | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 8:12 PM

Took the plunge on opening day and have found L5 to be more responsive (for the most part). In normal usage I have found L5 (with online sync on) to run about the same speed as L4 (with internet off), ie.; most of the stuttering/pausing when sync is running seems to be gone. Scrolling through resources windows and your library is noticeably snappy (I have over 3800 resources and my library is not bogged down). Now I do have a substantial wait when first I click on Layouts the first time (5-10 sec).

Default font and rendering method in L5 has praises and curses depending on your personal preferences. The default font renders quite a bit like Apple's Safari browser. The fonts look a bit "shadowed". This has gotten complaints from some about the fonts being too "fuzzy" looking. For me, it is MUCH easier to read compared to L4's font. The L4 default font is available for those who prefer it. 

Your mileage will vary depending on your system.

I'm running on an Intel i5 (Ivy Bridge) 2.5 GHz laptop with 6GB of RAM, 256 GB SSD, and Win 8 Pro x64. 

Lenovo TS130 Xeon E3-1245V2 | 20GB | 256 GB SSD (OS and Logos) | 3TB WD Red | Windows 10 Pro x64

L4 & L5 Platinum, L6 Gold, L5 Reformed Gold, L6 Reformed Bronze, L7 Lutheran Silver, L7 Reformed Starter, L7 Full Feature Set

Posts 59
Eric Ruhnow | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 8:36 PM

As to the pricing, I agree with many of the complaints on the forums. IMHO, Logos really needs to think about how they handle major rollouts. The communication available for both the L4 and L5 launches was sub-par at best. One shouldn't have to fish the forums to get the answers to basic questions.

What I think should have been made ABUNDANTLY clear on the Logos site (L5 promo material) should have at least included:

 

  1. We have completely reworked our latest packages. The naming conventions have been retained from previous Logos versions, but the contents have been completely reworked. Upgrading to a "lower level" package will NOT affect the base package you currently own. 
  2. At this time, upgrading to at least L5 GOLD will get you all the "new" features in L5. If this option is not within your budget (L4/pre-pub/CP junkies), Crossgrade options will be made available in the near future. We do not have a timeframe for the Crossgrade at this time, but we will announce that date when it is settled on.

 

I'll be honest, I was quite irked at how the rollout was handled - I don't like having to hunt for basic information about a product before purchasing, but there were a ton of resources in the new L5 Platinum package that I was keenly interested in (on my wishlist) and the discount and payment options were too nice to pass up. Embarrassed

Lenovo TS130 Xeon E3-1245V2 | 20GB | 256 GB SSD (OS and Logos) | 3TB WD Red | Windows 10 Pro x64

L4 & L5 Platinum, L6 Gold, L5 Reformed Gold, L6 Reformed Bronze, L7 Lutheran Silver, L7 Reformed Starter, L7 Full Feature Set

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 9:15 PM

Michael Gaskin:
Now, I understand a version is coming out that will allow me to get the software but that's not available.  Why?  Is it because they want people to buy resources that I (and possibly others) will not need?  That's stinky....

4.6a came out last week. In the normal course of things you would have gotten a 4.7 in January or so. Now you will (in all likelihood) get a new version several weeks earlier, it will be called L5 instead, and it'll be much better than 4.7 would have been. So all you're really complaining about is that others are getting it before you, right? Wink

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:08 AM

Yep.  You nailed it.  I am complaining that other people who purchase upgrade "packages" are getting the feature set of L5 before me.  That's it!  And, its wrong.  I've spent tons of money on packages and additional resources and I do not want anything else... BUT, I want the features of L5 and I would be willing to pay for those features.  But, right now, I've got to spend 485 bucks to get it....AND resources I could care less about.

So, why Logos stinks is because they should have had both options available from the get-go...instead, they force people like me who want the features to purchase resources they do not want OR wait until some date in the future to get L5.  Like I said, its stinky!

- Michael

Posts 1357
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:35 AM

Michael Gaskin:

Yep.  You nailed it.  I am complaining that other people who purchase upgrade "packages" are getting the feature set of L5 before me.  That's it!  And, its wrong.  I've spent tons of money on packages and additional resources and I do not want anything else... BUT, I want the features of L5 and I would be willing to pay for those features.  But, right now, I've got to spend 485 bucks to get it....AND resources I could care less about.

So, why Logos stinks is because they should have had both options available from the get-go...instead, they force people like me who want the features to purchase resources they do not want OR wait until some date in the future to get L5.  Like I said, its stinky!

- Michael

Patience, grasshopper.

It's hard to be sympathetic to all the Logos users who keep complaining about not getting everything they want, right now, and free.

Logos personnel and servers are backed up trying to process orders for those willing to pay money. They couldn't handle more orders right now.

I wonder how many times those same leaders have spoken to others about exercising the godly characteristic of patience.

It has only been 8 days.

No one has been harmed.

They have not be kept from doing what they were able to do before with their Logos software and resources.

Posts 2458
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:23 AM

 Would you go to the library just for the books you want and complain that you have to go up to the third floor just to get to those books? And then complain that someone got there first and took one of them out? 

When I discovered that the package I wanted was more than my original Scholar purchase, I was discouraged. I just couldn't do it and it was too much for me at the moment. I wanted those resources, but I wanted L5 more. But it was still out of the question. 

Last time I checked Matthew 19:26 is still in the Bible and it's still true. God provided the gracious gift of the full payment for my upgrade. What I couldn't do, God did.

 

 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 11069
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:39 AM

To be honest, I couldn't remember Jesus talking about patience nor for that matter anyone else in the NT (outside the 2nd Coming of course). Probably my bad memory, with all the 'hope-ers'.

Well anyway, I used my high speed Logos search capability and heavy targeting of 'patience'.

There it was right at the top of the search results in the New Bible Dictionary:

'Biblical patience is a God-exercised, or God-given, restraint in face of opposition or oppression. It is not passivity. The initiative lies with God’s love, or the Christian’s, in meeting wrong in this way.'

 Well, now. There you go, Grasshopper.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:04 AM

DMB:

To be honest, I couldn't remember Jesus talking about patience nor for that matter anyone else in the NT (outside the 2nd Coming of course). Probably my bad memory, with all the 'hope-ers'.

Well anyway, I used my high speed Logos search capability and heavy targeting of 'patience'.

There it was right at the top of the search results in the New Bible Dictionary:

'Biblical patience is a God-exercised, or God-given, restraint in face of opposition or oppression. It is not passivity. The initiative lies with God’s love, or the Christian’s, in meeting wrong in this way.'

 Well, now. There you go, Grasshopper.

With all due respect to the NBD author of this article, that is not an adequate Biblical definition of patience. Biblical patience is much more than restraint in the face of opposition. For example, in 1Thess 5:14, believers are told to be patient with each other. One would assume that they were not opposing or oppressing each other! In Eph 4:2 among the list of virtues is "be patient, bearing with one another in love" (NIV, ESV, NRSV, etc.). The English word patient includes the idea of bearing with each other, or as the LEB more literally puts it "putting up with one other in love." Paul seems to include the concept of putting up with each other as the kind of patience, or the extent to which he urges our patience to go. Once again, it is patience exercised by one believer toward another; not merely acting with restraint in the face of oppostion.

BDAG has this for makrothumia (μακροθυμία - the Greek word that most often translates 'patience'): "state of remaining tranquil while awaiting an outcome, patience, steadfastness, endurance" as the first meaning and the NBD definition as second.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 4017
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 12:32 PM

as to performance, my desktop has L3 and L4 running side by side (can't install 5 yet, due to some complications of running a trial of win 8, and .net 4.5 using a weird release number) and I have L5 on my much slower laptop.

I timed all three - bearing in mind my desktop is quite speedy. L3 took 18 seconds to start, L4 took 6, L5 on my under powered laptop took 6 seconds as well. Can't wait until I get my desktop sorted and L5 installed... will be able to post an apples to apples comparison at that point of all three versions.

L3 has pretty much nothing in it right now, in fact I only installed it last night and because someone is giving me some older L3 resource cd's and serials for them (that they say haven't been used). I saw a post about syncing resources from 4 - 3, I'll give that a go.

I haven't purchased a base package for 5 yet (though I will), someone had posted the DL link early on, and without thinking about it, I installed it on my laptop. Then the post came from Bob about it not being available yet, and I felt guilty, but I can't bring my self to uninstall completely, however I don't want to re-compile all my personal books...

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Platinum & WORDsearch

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 12:41 PM

Ken Baker:

however I don't want to re-compile all my personal books...

If you are going from L4 to L5 you don't have to recompile your Personal Books. They will automatically be loaded in your library. L5 loads over L4 and uses the books already downloaded. All you will do if purchase an uograde package is download the new books and other new resources.

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 1:35 PM

<cough>  Who said that I want something for free....  Please read more carefully my post before commenting.  I said... "I would be willing to pay for those features."

- Michael

PS: Perhaps it is you who is doing the hopping because you didn't even bother to take the time to read my comment with full understanding.

Posts 4017
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 1:44 PM

Philana - I upgraded to L5 without paying for it, before Bob said we should all wait, someone posted the download link... Any way, I don't want to downgrade my laptop back to L4, because I assume that would mean re-compiling my PB's. I'll just wait for the cross grade, or else get starter with my next check, no big deal.

 

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Platinum & WORDsearch

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 1:47 PM

Edwin Bowden:

Michael Gaskin:

Yep.  You nailed it.  I am complaining that other people who purchase upgrade "packages" are getting the feature set of L5 before me.  That's it!  And, its wrong.  I've spent tons of money on packages and additional resources and I do not want anything else... BUT, I want the features of L5 and I would be willing to pay for those features.  But, right now, I've got to spend 485 bucks to get it....AND resources I could care less about.

So, why Logos stinks is because they should have had both options available from the get-go...instead, they force people like me who want the features to purchase resources they do not want OR wait until some date in the future to get L5.  Like I said, its stinky!

- Michael

 

Patience, grasshopper.

It's hard to be sympathetic to all the Logos users who keep complaining about not getting everything they want, right now, and free.

Logos personnel and servers are backed up trying to process orders for those willing to pay money. They couldn't handle more orders right now.

I wonder how many times those same leaders have spoken to others about exercising the godly characteristic of patience.

It has only been 8 days.

No one has been harmed.

They have not be kept from doing what they were able to do before with their Logos software and resources.

A proper response is in order because you exhibit an attitude that  is obnoxious... Its a response I teach my 11 year old son not to do.  Its like what happened to me the other day when some dad screamed at me for going over 25 miles an hour... I turned around and said, "Sir, I WAS going 25 miles an hour....."  

Your rudeness by calling me names...implying that I want things for free is simply silly and frankly, I feel ashamed for you.  I have a legit concern...period.  And, if you had even bothered to read my note I said I would be willing to pay for it.  BUT, just like the obnoxious dad who screamed at me about going faster than 25 you didn't bother to ever read my post.

You sir, for this interaction ONLY, are a poor example of how a Christian should act.

- Michael

 

 

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 6:24 AM

Thankful for dynamic upgrade pricing.  The delta difference between Diamond and Portfolio was less than 10 % of the regular prices for new Portfolio resources, which were on my wish list so have already upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio.  Thankful for promotional discount for package upgrade plus phone call to Logos Sales.

Am aware of a Logos 4 Platinum user who is waiting to see minimal crossgrade options so can compare/contrast with Starter and Silver packages.  Wonder if week or two more for minimal crossgrade allows for download demand to be spread out a bit.

Remember free Perseus Collections being done in batches to avoid overwhelming Logos servers for downloading resources.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 9:36 AM

Michael Gaskin:
 Like I said, its stinky!
It's Dith-Picable.Stick out tongue

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