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Posts 653
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 11:27 AM

Here we go again.  For years all I've heard is give us more and more and more.  Then when they make it available the whining begins.  Give it to us for less and less and less.  Every Christmas the same sickening demand for everything to be practically given away by Logos.

Which brings up another point that comes up frequently - the demand for individual titles instead of collections.  Many of these individual titles would never make it to electronic publication on  their own but at least when they are part of a collection they are available.  And look how may of these are now being broken up as Logos responds to our requests.  

Don't forget, all these companies are a business.  They are there to earn a profit.  They are not there to be our private Santa Claus.

 

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 11:36 AM

Truly in the spirit of Lucy Van Pelt . . .

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 653
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 11:36 AM

"I wrote Zondervan on more than one occasion asking them to release their products on Logos, so now that they have done this, I am going to drop them a note of support. This is a brilliant development!"

Yes!! Let's all do this instead of what is being proposed elsewhere in this thread to write to them asking for more and more price concessions.

While I too appreciate a good deal, the attitude of some (not all) on these forums is frankly sickening.. You'd thing some of these guys were living in poverty.   And I'm not referring to those making comment about what they wish or where they stand financially, but to those who think it's there God-given entitlement to more and more for less and less.

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

Posts 3863
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 11:53 AM

Here is a response I got from a representative at Zondervan.  If this has already been posted, my apologies.

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Dear Dan,

Thank you for contacting Zondervan.

Zondervan is going to make sure we work with the Pradis customers for a smooth transition to other search engines. Current Pradis customers will be eligible for a discount directly from Zondervan when new titles become available. The discount details will be announced in Zondervan’s Digital Resources e-newsletter (www.Zondervan.com/newsletters).

Thank you
Carrie
Zondervan Customer Care

btw, I have thanked them personally for jumping on board with Logos.  AND, I probably do have a poverty mentality.  I am of Scottish origin.

 

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1141
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 12:07 PM

"Other search engines" may mean more than Logos. 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 12:10 PM

Alex Scott:

Here we go again.  For years all I've heard is give us more and more and more.  Then when they make it available the whining begins.  Give it to us for less and less and less.  Every Christmas the same sickening demand for everything to be practically given away by Logos.

Which brings up another point that comes up frequently - the demand for individual titles instead of collections.  Many of these individual titles would never make it to electronic publication on  their own but at least when they are part of a collection they are available.  And look how may of these are now being broken up as Logos responds to our requests.  

Don't forget, all these companies are a business.  They are there to earn a profit.  They are not there to be our private Santa Claus.

Hi Alex,

              Are you not over reacting a bit? $2000 is no small money if you already have the majority of the titles in the hard back format & in the pradis format. Zondervan say they would offer their customers who have the pradis format a discount. Should one not enquire about this & find out how it will work? Zondervan feel the need to make the statement, you seem to be objecting to Zondervan's kind consideration?

Ted.

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 12:10 PM

Alex Scott:

 

While I too appreciate a good deal, the attitude of some (not all) on these forums is frankly sickening.. You'd thing some of these guys were living in poverty.   And I'm not referring to those making comment about what they wish or where they stand financially, but to those who think it's there God-given entitlement to more and more for less and less.

speaking of attitude... shouldn't you look closer to home?

 

We all appreciate the fact that Zondervan is now available in Logos format.

However, current Pradis owners have legitimate concerns about the enduring value of their collections. the issue is not with Logos but with Zondervan as they are abandoning their platform (Pradis) which might leave current customers who have significantly invested in their electronic resources hung out to dry.

it is not about asking for an handout or getting something for less than its value.

current Pradis owners have paid good money to get their resources, Zondervan (not the users) has decided to abandon the platform, it is not unreasonable for their customer to expect that they should be migrated to the new platform without facing prohibitive cost (i.e. buying again the same resources possibly paying more than the original price).

 

Zondervan appears to agree that something should be done, it is just not clear what exactly they plan to do. being proactive and make sure that they understand our concerns as paying customers is the proper course of action ... even if some who are not parties in the transaction feel that it is their obligation to lecture the rest of us.

 

Alain

Posts 1934
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 12:33 PM

JoanKorte:
"Other search engines" may mean more than Logos. 

I read that and my interpretation is certainly not just Logos. I know some Zondervan products are already licensed for the Mac under another programme. It wouldn't surprise me if now that Zondervan is abandoning their Windows software that they would license books to more than just Logos.

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 1:17 PM

FAQ here:

http://zondervan.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/zondervan.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_search_text=logos

Interesting points: Not all Pradis resources will be in Logos. New Logos titles will come as Zondervan sees fit.  Accordance products will still be available.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 221
James Thompson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 1:21 PM

 

Lynden Williams:

Okay James here is $5,000.00. Is that enough. By the way that is USD. Smile

Lynden,

Thanks! And you should know better than to ask a preacher if any amount of money is enough! Wink

Posts 3863
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 2:10 PM

Todd Phillips:

FAQ here:

http://zondervan.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/zondervan.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_search_text=logos

Interesting points: Not all Pradis resources will be in Logos. New Logos titles will come as Zondervan sees fit.  Accordance products will still be available.

 

Todd, thanks for the link.  Here is the 'question' posed:

Will the same Zondervan titles that were sold in the Pradis format all be available in the Logos and other formats?

note that while Logos is specifically mentioned, "other formats" is included.  You would think any title that is in one format would be in others, but perhaps they are leaving wiggle room in case not all products get transferred to format XYZ.  That is not to say Logos will have all of them, or that Logos will be shortchanged compared to others.  More telling however, is their answer:

No, we will not be selling the same library collections or all of the same titles. A number of previous titles will be carried over into the Logos format. But we will include new titles that never appeared in Pradis such as The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible and the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament. Other notable releases include resources by Gordon Fee, Tremper Longman III, Scot McKnight, William Mounce, and others. A complete listing of the Zondervan titles coming to Logos Bible Software, as well as a link to pre-order, can be found at http://www.logos.com/zondervan.


First, note that there is ambiguity about whether old resources will appear in new formats.  There may be some omissions.  What they are in anybody's guess, but my assumption is that they would be obsolete works.  Or, perhaps, they foresee they will not be able to guarantee (because of any number of circumstances) that all works will be able to be transferred.

Second, note that some works will be available in new formats like Logos (technically Libronix) that were not available in Pradis.  Cool.  (Although the Illustrated Bible Backgrounds IS . . . but only the NT).  This seems to be the focal point of any perceived differences in titles between the platforms.  Ie, raither than taking away titles, they will add new ones (but that is not really what that question asks)

Third, looking over all the proposed Logos titles, I see no omissions.  Anything I knew that was available in Pradis will be in Logos.  There might be an exception here or there (Study Bible?  I don't know), but all MAJOR sets and works, plus new ones, will be available.  Am I overlooking a significant one?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 60
Richard Crampton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 3:03 PM

Matthew,

Thanks for pointing this out to me.  I skimmed the blog and I had sticker shock at the price!  I have over 1200 resources in Logos and I'm pretty sure that all together they have not cost me $2000.  I hope Zondervan  will make it easy to migrate my Pradis resources to Logos.   I certainly can't afford to pay three times what I purchased them for originally!

Posts 2976
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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 3:06 PM

I already have some of it in Pradis, but will be buying it for Logos as I need it. 

 -Jacob

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 3238
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 3:08 PM

Glad to see Zondervan in Logos, its a start. But 2K, think not have all the resources listed in paper or another format, I'll keep my $, but lots a luck to you.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 3:31 PM

Zondervan as quoted by Daniel --

Daniel DeVilder:

No, we will not be selling the same library collections or all of the same titles. A number of previous titles will be carried over into the Logos format. But we will include new titles that never appeared in Pradis such as The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible and the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament. Other notable releases include resources by Gordon Fee, Tremper Longman III, Scot McKnight, William Mounce, and others. A complete listing of the Zondervan titles coming to Logos Bible Software, as well as a link to pre-order, can be found at http://www.logos.com/zondervan.

Funny how my Zondervan Bible Reference Library Scholar's Edition in Pradis 5.0 has The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia. I guess it is different from the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible. Confused News to me.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 804
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 3:47 PM

I have a fairly sizable investment in Z/Pradis.  Since the cost and availability of converting my current titles over to Logos is up in the air, I am going to download and hang on to the latest Pradis engine update ... before it disappears... just in case I need it later on.

http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Product/Software/PRADIS.htm?QueryStringSite=Zondervan

 

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 60
Richard Crampton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 5:14 PM

Thanks for the link!

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 5:35 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Funny how my Zondervan Bible Reference Library Scholar's Edition in Pradis 5.0 has The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia. I guess it is different from the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible. Confused News to me.

 

Matthew,

 

the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible is the revised edition of Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia

 

Alain

 

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 6:07 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Zondervan as quoted by Daniel --

Daniel DeVilder:

No, we will not be selling the same library collections or all of the same titles. A number of previous titles will be carried over into the Logos format. But we will include new titles that never appeared in Pradis such as The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible and the Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: Old Testament. Other notable releases include resources by Gordon Fee, Tremper Longman III, Scot McKnight, William Mounce, and others. A complete listing of the Zondervan titles coming to Logos Bible Software, as well as a link to pre-order, can be found at http://www.logos.com/zondervan.

 

Funny how my Zondervan Bible Reference Library Scholar's Edition in Pradis 5.0 has The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia. I guess it is different from the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible. Confused News to me.

Zondervan lists these as two separate books,  The Pictorial encyclopedia is much smaller (864 pages vs 5616 pages)and about $100 cheaper.  The specs look similar to material that will be included in the GLO bible.  The one listed in Prepub is the newer, larger version.  Prepub for this is about the same price as the paper version.  This is not available in PRADIS.  (sorry for the long Quote, I'm still trying to figure our how to shorten these up on the forum)

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2009 6:27 PM

MikeWaterhouse:
sorry for the long Quote, I'm still trying to figure our how to shorten these up on the forum

Mike,

To shorten the quote, you simply select the portion which you wish to quote and then hit the "Quote" link. Voila'

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