Logos 5 Upgrade

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This post has 161 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 4
Justn Cho | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:48 AM

I personally think that we should not express our anxiety or anger about the announcement of Logos 5.

WHY?

First of all, as true followers of Jesus Christ who is patient, gracious, and merciful,
we should tell our disappointed heart with more generous and polite expression rather than  what we are doing right now. I can totally understand that we can tell them what we feel, but if this forums is filled with impolite complaints and meaningless criticisms, what is the difference between us and unbelievers?

Second, indeed, I believe that the Logos has invested a lot of efforts and money for developing Logos 5 software.
Computer programming and wages for developers may be not cheaper than what we think. Think about Microsoft Office or Acrobat software. We do not ask them to give us free upgrade when they make a new version. So we have no right to ask them to give us new upgrade version freely. If we want to have new features, we should buy it unless they graciously provide it to us freely.

HOWEVER

Why do so many people get angry at LOGOS 5?

1. LOGOS should announce their developing Logos 5 at least couple of months ago.
WHY?
(1) so that we can wait for this new software. Many people already bought Logos 4 last month, even last weekend.
      Logos does not give them a chance to think about it. Last night I search their website for looking new monthly free book, but I couldn't find any announcement about Logos 5.

(2) Some of us might purchase some resources that is a part of Logos 5 resources. If we know the Logos 5 developing and what they would include in the new databases, we would not buy that resources, because if we upgrade Logos 4 to 5, the resources will be included in the upgrading.

Because of these facts, many customers got angry because they feel that LOGOS does not care about them.
It seems like If some of us bought Logos 4 yesterday, it does not matter with them.
They seem not to care of some customers who bought resources which would be included in their Logos 5 resources. It is enough to feel that the Logos does not care about customers in this sense.

2. LOGOS should provide SOFTWARE UPGRADE ONLY VERSION for Former users today.
WHY?
 (1) Why do Microsoft or Adobe (famous software company) provide UPGRADE ONLY software at the same time with the full software? Because they care for their former customers.
They never say, "Hey, now is the time for new customers, you should wait for a while, and I do not know when we will provide software for you. But if you really want to have this new version, you can buy it now."

(2) Think about Office software (Microsoft Word or Adobe Acrobat). They also have different level of software such as Pro or Standard... However, the difference between their Pro and Standard is acceptable. Standard users can be satisfied with their level. They do not disappoint not being Pro users because their differences are acceptable.
LOGOS 5 is NOT. "STARTER" gives us just one new feature, "BRONZE" 5 out of 8, "SILVER" 7.
Unless we purchase "SILVER" we cannot say that we can use LOGOS 5 new features.
In this sense, Logos forces the new customers to buy the "Silver" or higher level of product.
Yes! They provide "Sold separately" for each new feature, but it will cost over than $90.
In this sense, many people get angry because they feel that LOGOS does not care for them.

3. LOGOS 4 still needs to be developed
Logos 4 has a huge problem of indexing time and loading time.
I read some of admiration about Logos 5 in its faster and better indexing and loading.
Logos 4 users may think that Logos may give up to fix the problems of Logos 4 because they just make the better and faster software. Many Logos 4 users have an interest with Logos 5 because not only they love new features but also they expect that the Logos solves this problem with this upgrading.

In Logos website, I usually stop by the webpage what they will add to Logos 4 (new features).
I cannot find that web page anymore.

I satisfy my Office 2010 software, even though 2013 is tempting.
I also satisfy Windows 7, even though 8 is tempting. Because Office 2010, Windows 7 has no problem with me.

However, Logos 4 has a huge problem still.
Because Logos 5 is not available who want to upgrade software only today, many customers may think that Logos now shift their main focus to the Logos 5 and may forget the problem of Logos 4.

Personally I have no problem with Logos 4 if they promise to solve that problems faithfully.

But, if they do the same thing (not announced, not provide) at Logos 6, 7, 8, 9...
It is sure that many customers will think that Logos really does not care about the customers.

I want to ask to each worker of Logos company.
"Is there anyone of you who purchased Logos 4 since you know that there would be Logos 5 today?"
"What are you going to do if your friend, family, or pastor wanted to buy Logos 4 yesterday?"

If I were a worker of Logos company, I would not buy Logos 4 if I know the Logos 5 was coming soon.
If I were a worker of Logos company, I definitely tell my pastor or friends not  to buy Logos 4 but to wait until today.

Because I take care of them. I respect them, I love them.

Logos is not a company that pursue the materialistic profits only. Logos takes care of pastors, bible students, and Christians.
If you are really care for them, show them you really care.

Posts 11
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 1:53 AM

I really agree with Justin almost 100% even though Logos has been working hard in its business.

But I expect that Logos will add its 'upgrade version only' to previous version users because I already have a big volume of library.

Posts 0
jonB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:00 AM

yeah.  what's the deal?  i have over 3 grand in logos resources.  but i have to spend another $650 to get all the new features?  that's plain wrong.  i don't need new resources.  i'd be happy to spend another 100 or so bucks to get some of the new features.  but 650?  you have got to be out of your finkger lickin mind.  so disappointing.  it's like logos didn't do any customer surveys or research before they put out this new pricing system.

and...i don't appreciate the logos sales rep being dishonest with me when i asked him some basic questions.  all that he did was upsell me and leave out information (that i later found online).  isn't this a BIBLE software company???  very disappointing stuff from a company that (until today) had never been anything but superb.  it's a real bummer...

Posts 1186
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:07 AM

Oh boy here we go.

Posts 521
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:09 AM

Agree.

To me, the practical issue is money. First the price for me to upgrade the platinum package is too much. I think Logos should consider to add more packages like the concept of diamond package, and to keep the addition of resources to the same package, the platinum one for me, to be minimal. Logos should distinguish the upgrade of the software and upgrade of the contents. E.g. If I want to upgrade the software, I upgrade from Logos 4 to 5. If I want to upgrade the contents, I go from platinum to diamond. And if Logos really think the Logos 5 platinum corresponds to the Logos 4 platinum, then what we are paying should really be the software upgrade price, not a content upgrade price. (I didn't check it, but is the logos 4 platinum sold at around the same price as the Logos 5 platinum? If yes, why charge us so much to upgrade? If no, why Logos would consider them to be corresponding? After all, it is the price point (to me) determine if it is platinum or gold or silver, if you want to offer something pricer (with richer contents) than they should give a new name like diamond)

The same issue seen from another angle is time: if you really want that much money from me to upgrade the same platinum from 4 to 5, Logos should give us more time to know beforehand for us to save money. Don't they know they are charging big money? By big I mean the upgrade price is quite substantial comparing to the price I paid for the platinum itself. (And this also worry me so much, are Logos going to release a new version as frequently and than charge us that premium? If so it would be wise for me to stop upgrading. And hence we go back to the issue that Logos should make it clearer what their future plan is.)

Posts 521
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:10 AM
jonB:

yeah.  what's the deal?  i have over 3 grand in logos resources.  but i have to spend another $650 to get all the new features?  that's plain wrong.  i don't need new resources.  i'd be happy to spend another 100 or so bucks to get some of the new features.  but 650?  you have got to be out of your finkger lickin mind.  so disappointing.  it's like logos didn't do any customer surveys or research before they put out this new pricing system.

and...i don't appreciate the logos sales rep being dishonest with me when i asked him some basic questions.  all that he did was upsell me and leave out information (that i later found online).  isn't this a BIBLE software company???  very disappointing stuff from a company that (until today) had never been anything but superb.  it's a real bummer...

Can you be more specific on how the sales rep being dishonest?
Posts 70
Pavel Škoda | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:13 AM

Excellently summarised Justn Cho!  Hoping everyone from LOGOS read it (and write some explanation(s) here).

EDIT: I bought LOGOS 4 on 8/2012  Huh? If I knew LOGOS 5 is going to be rolled out  I would wait till now....

Posts 521
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:26 AM

By the way, this situation reminds me something like the recent event from Apple that did angry quite a few customers. Their products are great, as well as Logos'. But I think the problem is how they sell it and how they show the care to the old customers.

and similar to Apple, I think Logos was doing a great job on marketing. Just this time they screw it a bit and I really hope that they can improve it.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 2:55 AM

Kolen Cheung:
To me, the practical issue is money. First the price for me to upgrade the platinum package is too much.

It is really unfortunate that Logos chose to reuse that old package names in this new version. It might help to think of them as completely separate entireties. (ie Old Platinum and New Platinum)

You have the Old Platinum - your resources are still there they will not be lost. So what to you want?

If the resources added in the New Platinum are of no interest to you then there is no point in upgrading to that package.

If you want all but one of the new databases and are happy with basically what you have in your library at present then an upgrade to 'New Gold' would probably be the most sensible (economical) move. The only thing you would change doing this is the name of your collection - what's in a name?

Posts 92
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 3:08 AM

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 3:25 AM

Hi Fabrice

Fabrice de Almeida:

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

Sorry - I don't understand

As far as I can see a new customer would pay $1,827.46 to get Platinum 5. They don't get it for free

Graham

 

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 3:39 AM

Fabrice de Almeida:

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

A new customer would have to pay the full price for Logos 5 Platinum ( and they would not have the resources that are in L4 Platinum but not in L5 which existing customers will keep).

The amount that an existing customer will have to pay for the New Platinum will vary depending on the resources in their library. If the resources in the New Platinum are not of interest to an existing customer they can change to a package with a different name that better suits their needs. Always remembering that that the New Gold is required for all but one of the new database sets.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 3:52 AM

Fabrice de Almeida:

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

I concur withabove that it's unfortunate that Logos choose to retain (most of) the package names. There is much different content in the packages. New Customers wil be able to buy L5-Platinum for USD 2,150 instead of "for free" (at least that's what I see when I sign out of the site and put Platinum into the shopping cart).

If you have to pay 1,100 you are making a steep jump in ressources you don't own currently - users that come from a different library post upgrade prices of a couple hundred dollars. For example, L5-Platinum has Lange's Commentary, Black's NT Commentary, Lenski, the Wesleyan Bible Study Commentaries etc. There are 111 resources/resource bundles in L5 Platinum that weren't in L4 Platinum. If you are coming from a lower level package in L4, of course there's more.

But since you say, these are resources you don't want, I scratch my head why you would upgrade to L5 Platinum? Maybe L5 Gold or Silver is the package better suited to your needs. Remember, you won't lose your current books or functionality, you only pay for what you get extra. 

running Logos 5.3 Beta 2 (Verbum Master+, Lutheran Silver) on Acer Extensa 5230E with 4GB RAM & 250GB SSD - Win7 Home 32bit & Android apps on Kindle Fire

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Fredc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:07 AM

I think we need to step back and think about this issue. I agree it may have been a mistake to use the same package names that were used in L4. But an appropriate analogy may be my old 1968 Mustang.

Up until about ten years ago my wife and I had a 1968 Mustang. It orginally came with nothing but an AM radio and did not have A/C, power locks, power seats, etc. As Ford upgraded and chnaged the design and features of the Mustang should I have expected or been entitled to free upgrades to the new features or technology? Of course not.

Logos has spent money developing and producing new resources and technology for Bible study. They have generously offered discounts to existing users that take prior investments in their products into consideration. But if you want the new products you will have to pay something. If you want the new features you will have to pay something. That's how they can recoup the cost of what they have done and have cash flow to do more in the future. If not that, where will the money come from?

Now I'm going to go compare the features in my 1999 Ford truck with the new 2013's to see if I can talk Ford into giving me a free upgradeWink

Logos 5 Get the FAQ's

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Posts 7

I was very much confused when  a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Portofolio Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books. Now, when I negotiated to make the upgrade they gave me a price tag for Logos Gold library 572 dollars. My Logos 5 Portofolio has 2563 books. Is this an upgrading or a downgrading? It is very hard for me to understand how this computing is working. Can some one expalin to me how I can be charged 572.00 dollars for a Logos 5 with 1,993 books ? I am great benficiary of the product of Logos. They are doing great work and I belieave they must make profit and pay thier workers. Thye are not receving donationtions nor are they a non profit organization. And also I do not have any complaint with the coustomer service of Logos. Thye are excellent. They are very prompt and are doing thier best to help. My concern however is how does their upgrading methods arranged? Are there some things that I have missed? I am really desperate enough  to be informed, how the pricing and upgrading methods are arranged. Please comment and give me practical advice? Thanks

Tesfaye

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:28 AM

The problem is all in a name.

Tesfaye Haile:
I was very much confused when  a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Platinum Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books.

You still have Platinum Logos 4 Library and alway will have. You will loose non of these books.

So what do you want to add to your functionality?

You can add the New Silver - with most of the new databases.

You can add the New Gold with all but one of the new databases.

You can add the Platinum with all the new resources therein.

When you are given a price to add the new collections Logos take into consideration your existing resources, work out the cost of the extra resources and (at this point in time) apply a discount.

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Fredc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:29 AM

Tesfaye Haile:

I was very much confused when  a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Paltinum Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books. Now, when I negotiated to make the upgrade they gave me a price tag for Logos Gold library 572 dollars. Logos 5 Portofolio has 2563 books. Is this an upgrading or a downgrading? It is very hard for me to understand how this computing is working. Can some one expalin to me how I can be charged 572.00 dollars for a Logos 5 with 1,993 books ? I am great benficiary of the product of Logos. They are doing great work and I belieave they must make profit and pay thier workers. Thye are not receving donationtions nor are they a non profit organization. And also I do not have any complaint with the coustomer service of Logos. Thye are excellent. They are very pormpt and are doing thier best to help. My concern is how can their upgrading methods arranged? Are there some things that I have missed? I am really desperate enough  to be informed how the pricing and upgrading methods are arranged. Please commnet and give me practical advice? Thanks

Tesfaye

I cannot comment on your individual circumstance; but my understanding is the upgrades are based on what Logos has called a "dynamic" pricing model. That means they take into account the individual titles and packages you already own and discount your upgrade price accordingly. The idea being you are not paying for the same resource twice. The upgrade will be comensurate with the new resources you receive. You should not lose any existing resources.  

Logos 5 Get the FAQ's

Grow in your personal relationship with Christ; so you can help others come into and grow in a personal relationship with Christ

Posts 263
Gao Lu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:55 AM

I'm no body important and don't have any inside knowledge about Logos.  But here is my view:

1.  Be patient a few days.  You are not out anything at all.  Nothing  is lost.  Things only get better from here. Just wait and see. 

2.  You don't have to spend anything unless you decide you want more resources.  Sure there are new L5 versions of the base package.  The packages might even go by the same name as some old packages, but have a little different content.  You can buy it if you like it--or not. You won't re-purchase anything you already own.  And you don't have to buy anything at all anytime soon, if you are happy with what you have.  I suppose you could start what ever package you have and "upgrade" if you want to call it that to the L5 starter package and get L% that way for very little money.  That may not include all the new databases, but do you have to have all that too--for free?  Personally I'd like a lot of Logos resources for free, but...

3.  You can't really downgrade (I suppose you could sell off your resources).  If you buy another package with a name "lower" than the "highest" you have already purchased, you aren't "downgrading," you are just getting a great deal on anything in that other package that you want and don't have.  And you only pay for the new stuff.  New packages may have something you want that you don't have at a great price without having to buy everything in the new package with the same name as what you already have.  What a great deal!  Look around on the upgrade page at your options. Check those upgrade prices. You can't lose, you can only gain.  Example:  If you have Platinum and want to add a few good deals from from Gold,  there may only be a few books you don't already have--you can get them pretty cheap.  You only buy what you don't already have and at a base package discount price! I know this is repetitious, but it is really simple and easy to understand--I think.  Someone correct me if I'm off plumb here.  

4.  Cross-grading is coming along soon.  Busy as things are, overloaded as Logos has been with this immensely successful upgrade, I think we can understand if it takes a few days or weeks to meet every wish any Logos user might have.  But I guess Logos will do just that as well as anyone could expect them to do.  And you can hardly blame Logos for developing a marketing plan that is financially successful for them, even if that means a roll-out of options over a few weeks which is less than ideally convenient for those of us who don't want to spend anything and still get upgraded.       

5.  I have L5 and I am immensely happy with it.  It is everything I hoped L4 would be.    

God bless you all.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:58 AM

Yes

I can fully subscribe to your very wise words!

Post more often, if you can!

running Logos 5.3 Beta 2 (Verbum Master+, Lutheran Silver) on Acer Extensa 5230E with 4GB RAM & 250GB SSD - Win7 Home 32bit & Android apps on Kindle Fire

Posts 73
Bokman Han | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:12 AM

I guess Logos should let Logos 4 users upgrade for a price about 50 bucks or more but not more 100.

 

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