I'm back and still on the topic of the quarterly lesson books
This time I am pushing the issue with regards to 4 publishers representing Methodists, UCC, Baptist and Church of Christ. See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/104845/724879.aspx#724879 . I want to draw your attention to this as I have also brought it to the attention of Bob and Verbum and I want your group to have a voice in any particular needs you might have. As you can see Logos has nearly all the required pieces so its primarily a matter of convincing Logos it would be useful and convincing churches and publishers to encourage the possibility as one approach for some of the members/users.
EDIT: I intend, as I did last winter, that the SDA materials be integrated into the same functionality ... sample were shared in the winter based on SDA materials.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The problem with ‘standard lessons’ is the details of doctrine. Three words that I could find that separate the Seventh-day Adventists and the rest of the world would be: the Sabbath, Predestination and the understanding of Hell. One of the oldest SDA Collages is in South Lancaster Massachusetts – the Atlantic Union Collage. It lost its accreditation by the State of Massachusetts because the state thought that its endowment funds were too low. Then when AUC found a Christion Accreditation Organization that liked what ALC was doing the deal fell apart because of the differences between SDA church doctrine and the Organization’s doctrine over the doctrine of Hell.
I have seen other ‘standard’ Christion lessons [have not reviewed the ones pointed to]. They are good but they lack the details that make one denomination stand out from all the others.
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David you forgot Spirit of Prophecy and Sanctuary.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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By the way, Martin has said that he will try to get the lessons lisenced for Logos. Maybe we pay a annual subscription for the for set.
They are probably printing the third quarter and finalizing the fourth quarter.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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David, I in no way intended to imply that the Uniform Lessons were appropriate for SDA although your concerns are unnecessary as the Uniform Lessons are generated by a variety of denominations. I suggested several additional denominations' materials to Faithlife to extend their coverage. What I intended to say is that the SDA material follows the same basic formatting as the Uniform Lesson material and could use the same functions in Logos. Therefore, it followed that some SDA users might wish to have input should Faithlife wish to proceed in this direction. It is, in effect, the continuation of a conversation in this forum about using lectionaries to provide the daily reading schedule and links for denominational Bible study lessons.
BTW the Uniform Lessons project which is more than 140 years old provides themes and readings but is specifically dependent upon a variety of denominations to put their "spin" on it to make it appropriate for use in their context. Some large congregations create their own materials from it and I am aware of denominational versions for one or more subdivisions of Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Christian/Disciples of Christ, Restoration Movement, Moravians, Mennonites and at least one other Anabaptist group, UCC. I also know by languages of material in English, Spanish and Korean. Since Faithlife already carries four denominational versions, this seemed like the obvious market to use as an example.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks for thinking of SDAs, MJ. Like Lynden, I do hope we can get our weekly lessons into Faithlife/Logos in some form.
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I do hope we can get our weekly lessons into Faithlife/Logos in some form.
As do I, and hopefully in a way that can be leveraged for many groups.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Whoops, Did not mean to step on your toes. I very much appreciate your work on lectionaries [or as defined elsewhere ‘lectionary reading lists’]
The SDA Sabbath School did a study on Proverbs last quarter, Jan – Mar 2015. The first lesson Jan 2015 used Prov 1-3, Gen 1:1, Exod 19:16, Exod 20:20, Prov 11:30, 13:12 and 15:4
The prior time they did a study on Proverbs was Oct – Dec 2000. The first lesson from Oct 2000 used Prov 1:1-7, 2:10-11, Prov 4:5-7, Prov 2:1-6, James 1:5, Prov 2:7-10, 21:3 and Prov 2:1-9 The readings used were very different.
Not sure how your work on lectionaries would apply.
Lynden Williams is possibly a better source. The general topics seem to repeat every five years but the next study on the topic would not be the same lesson. It most likely would use a different book of the Bible to cover that topic.
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Oh, I didn't feel stepped on - only felt I hadn't made myself clear.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/90926/632554.aspx gives an example of how it would fit. I don't know enough about the referencing structure to know how to bring the EGW materials in although I am sure that is doable. However, that is precisely the type of denominational knowledge that SDA people need to make sure is accommodated. I can see the overarching common pattern but not the denominational details.
The view from 10,000 feet:
- lesson materials are printed and known in advance
- these materials have a predictable pattern of scriptures(s) - the lesson, background, key memory etc. so that scripture references can be meaningfully tagged with role
- this means that for each lesson a table of readings for a particular date can be built.
- there may be related readings through the week to be read at home; these readings also have particular dates associated with them
For a given day therefore:
- it is possible to identify particular passages to be read on that date
- these passages may be from the Bible, frequently with a specific translation requested
- these passages may be from outside the Bible, especially denominational materials
- these passages may be the lesson material itself
- therefore a layout with the lectionary (table of dates and readings), the appropriate Bible(s) and denominational materials, the lesson itself supplemented by optional commentary, bible dictionary, notes area can convert a mobile device into everything a student needs to keep up with their group study.
- in addition, teacher/leader material is sometimes more extensive but can be delivered in the same way. However, teacher prep is more likely to include desktop or laptop app.
Note: the absolute requirements for an individual are very inexpensive if a mobile is already owned. It allows the younger generation to use the tablets et. al. with which they are comfortable while requiring no change on the part of those put off by technology.
I don't care if Faithlife develops this capability around ISSL, SDA, Catholic or Jewish lessons. I just want to get the ability into the hands of the "Sunday School teacher", "religious ed teacher", "faith formation teacher" ....
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Got the 2014 Fourth Quarter files. [[Your Lectionary file and the DOCX file from the SDA Lesson Group and already had the PDF file ]]- will play and report back. [[Am assuming that the minor readings were ignored to get the main readings done]]
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Summary of the files involved and there results as PBB in Logos:
The SDA Lesson from PDF ETQ414_01 [Using Lesson 1 of the fourth quarter of 2014 as an example] was converted to a docx file for inputting as a PPB in to Logos. [file ETQ414-01-Final.docx]
Then a Lectionary type file was created from the lesson file. [5482-Seventh-day_Adventist_Adult_Bible_Study_Lectionary.docx
Using a section of the Monday lesson as an example: [[Much of the formatted has been removed leaving just the text so that this example will not take up too much space]]
IN THE PDF FILE:
Read 1 Corinthians 15:5–7 and Acts 1:14. What do they tell us about the changes that happened to James?IN THE LESSON DOCX FILES:
Read 1 Corinthians 15:5–7 and Acts 1:14. What do they tell us about the changes that happened to James?
{{ input id=NOTE1-3 | type=text | lines=2 | prompt=“notes” }}IN THE LESSON IN LOGOS:
Read 1 Corinthians 15:5–7 and Acts 1:14. What do they tell us about the changes that happened to James?
[[Then a note box for the student’s response.]]
IN THE LESSON LECTIONARY.DOCX FILE:
[[@YearMonthDay:09/29/2014]]
{{field-on:day}}Monday, September 29, 2014{{field-off:Day}} | {{field-on:Season}}The Book of James{{field-off:season}}
James, the Lord’s Brother: James, the believer
4th Quarter 2014 | Adult Bible StudyBible readings: 1 Corinthians 15:5-7
Acts 1:14
Today’s lesson James, the Believer
Index of Readings
Reading One
{{field-on:reading}}1 Corinthians 15:5-7{{field-off:reading}}{{dtext ref=Bible:1 Corinthians 15:5-7}}
IN THE LESSON LECTIONARY IN LOGOSMonday, September 29, 2014 | The Book of James
James, the Lord’s Brother: James, the believer
4th Quarter 2014 | Adult Bible Study
Bible readings: 1 Corinthians 15:5-7
Acts 1:14
Today’s lesson James, the Believer
Index of Readings
Reading One
1 Corinthians 15:5-75 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
[[As has been noted elsewhere in a True Lectionary the Bible text would have been modified to clarify that the three instances of ‘he’ refer to the resurrected Jesus]]
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I am beginning to see the Power in this that MJ. Smith has recommended especially in mobile devices
One problem in the mobile devices is that they only allow one resource to be open. Yes, one can click on a Bible verse and see it expand. Then one can go to the reference. But then one has to return to the main text. Trying to remember what you read on the other screen can be difficult in complex passages.
But what if there was a tool that looked up all of the Bible references and presented them in another resource? Having one resource open in Logos – The Lesson and the other, the Lectionary to the Lesson, open in Verbum? Switching between Logos and Verbum on my tablet is something I do often [Currently used to have four versions of the Bible open at once – six if I use another app also]
Yes, other works referenced could also be added to the Lectionary to the Lesson file. Standard References such the CCC and works by Ellen White that are referenced by standard abbreviations should be easy to add. The CCC has standard references to paragraphs. Most of the White works are referenced by Book ,Page and paragraph [as in GC88 392.2]
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Thank you very much. This is exactly the type of feedback I need so that the various materials are presented to be as useful as possible to their audience. I know that Faithlife is listening but I don't know what legal hoops there might be. So keep your fingers crossed and your mind thinking of what might be.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Left out one item: How we currently link to a White resource [A reference to the CCC would be similar]
From the PDF for Friday: [original source document]
“These things made His path a thorny one to travel. So pained was Christ by the misapprehension in His own home that it was a relief to Him to go where it did not exist.”—Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, p. 326.From the lesson DOCX file [PBB source file]
“These things made His path a thorny one to travel. So pained was Christ by the misapprehension in His own home that it was a relief to Him to go where it did not exist.”—Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, [[p. 326>> logosres:iv-da;ref=Page.p_326]].From the Lesson in Logos [PBB resource in Logos]
“These things made His path a thorny one to travel. So pained was Christ by the misapprehension in His own home that it was a relief to Him to go where it did not exist.”—Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, p. 326.Where the 326 after the p. is a link to the Logos Resource DA page 326 paragraph 1
The PROBLEM is that now each link has to be inserted by hand. Open the resource, Find the reference, mark the reference, and paste the mark into the Lesson Docx file. <<<the text [[p. 326>> logosres:iv-da;ref=Page.p_326]] >>>
However if you have text in your Lesson Docx file like “”it is written to the broader Christian community “scattered abroad” (James 1:1).”” The text “”James 1:1” becomes a link to the Bible text.
So it would be possible for Logos to make a reference of CCC 26 to insert a link to:
“”26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: “I believe” or “We believe.” Catholic Church, Catechism of the Catholic Church,””Or a reference of DA 326.1 to insert a link to
“”The enmity kindled in the human heart against the gospel was keenly felt by the Son of God, and it was most painful to Him in His home; for His own heart was full of kindness and love "" Ellen Gould White, The Desire of Ages; Conflict of the Ages Series; Desire of Ages, 326.1.””We will just have to work with Logos to define the limited set of resources that that will work with and how to mark the text. James 1:1 works why not CCC 26 and DA 326.1??
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They are probably printing the third quarter and finalizing the fourth quarter.
This was posted in the middle of the second quarter. My guess is that they are already preparing the third quarter for shipping - shipping will start next week, Printing the Fourth Quarter now and proofing a sample print run of the first quarter of next year. Evidence: There is a six month delay from the time one changes their order to the time that the changes takes place and that the lessons start arriving during the first week of the last month in a quarter so that the next quarter lessons can be handed out before the end of this quarter.
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If we automate this process what do we need to require in the lesson file?
[[Lesson File Requirements proposal zero: or maybe minus 210?? ]]
Lesson and Number
Date the Lesson to be used
If the date is in the format x/z/y that there be a way to tell the app that the date is in the format of MM/DD/YR or DD/MM/YR It gets obvious when the DD exceeds 12 but the first two weeks??
If the date is in the format of only x/z or April q then the app assumes that the date is after today’s date that is the next April
Bible references in the format book ch:t,w assume to be t-w if w is = t+1 or expand to book ch:t book ch:w to include the non continues reading of verse t and then w
If after a book ch:t a v s is found then insert a Bible reference of the last book ch:s Often authors add additional verses in the text.
When another book reference is found insert link
Example CCC 395 is a link to paragraph CCC 395
Example DA 395.1 is a link to Page DA 395 paragraph 1Will need rules for references Standard abbreviation, Use paragraph or page
[[Most documents would only use a limited subset of all registered resources.
That is unless I was the author don’t expect that the CCC and DA would both be used in the same lesson.]]0
