Is Logos 4 theologically biased?
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.
That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my homepage. Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.
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nicky crane said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.
That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my homepage. Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.
Actually I am not sure how it is. Right now I have excerpt from the Pulpit Commentary on my Home Page. I never use the Pulpit Commentary. The second one is from the New Bible Commentary I have as #1 (one volume) commentary. So I don't know...
Bohuslav
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I'd like to say thanks to Bob for coming in and settling the question himself.
Second of all, what little, and I do mean little, I do know about programming I would think that no matter if you were on L1.5, L2, L3 or L4 or L24 that a database is what it is. If you're searching an individual Bible or book (seen the same way by the engine), you'd come up with the results of either a hit or a miss. I don't know how you can program bias into searching the Bible.
For example, in my personal study and life, I've probably read the Bible through about 12 times (20 years of life as a Christian) and there are, of course, some things that I am much more aquatinted with than others; I am more aquatinted with Philippians than I am Song of Soloman, for example.
I've had verses which I knew in my head were said "this way" and I mean I KNEW it was said just like that image I had in my mind. But, when I went to Logos, I couldn't even find one word of it. When I finally did find the verse(s) I was looking for, I would scratch my head thinking "from where in the world did I get those words and structure?". Logos has humbled me and reminded me at just how limited and sorry the human mind really is when it comes to memory.
In reflection, I think, sadly, our theology get's like that last paragraph, too. The one time I can remember what I had fooled myself into thinking, it was an eschatological verse and concept. I believe we think about our theories more than we do the verses, sometimes, and they become muddled.
The database doesn't do this. It is a "on or off," a "yes or no," and a "1 or a 0."
Wilson Hines
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I can tell the OP that Logos may feel biased at times in searches, but searching can bias itself easily if you are not careful. Take this for instance:
1) You search an area that only Catholic resources address, and perhaps a few conservative resources (i.e. transubstantiation). You may feel like the search is biased towards Catholic theology, but really is not since this area is not addressed often by conservative resources.
2) You search a broad area, but your library has more liberal resources (typical of a Logos package IMO) than conservative, so you will get what is possibly felt is a liberally weighted response.
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package, but selecting a package or individual resources is a whole other ball game and analysis all together.
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Pat Flanakin said:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because
of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,[:)] My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Pat Flanakin said:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because
of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.MJ, you beat me in responding to Pat's post. I too often get a bunch of junk answers because of all the conservative resources. [:)]
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I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal. I'm so new at this that when I don't understand something in the bible (and I usually read the same thing in the ESV, NRSV, KJV and NIV and sometimes NLT to try to understand it (most recently studying Romans 7 and 8), I have trouble figuring out which commentary will give me a biblical, even handed, understandable explanation. I finally just decided not to understand foreknowledge and election and move on.[8-)]
I've been using Logos heavily for about 3 years and it's a wonderful tool. If it's biased they've put it by me.
Luther
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Luther Locklin said:
I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal.
Both of those terms ("liberal" & "conservative") are loaded and any preconceptions you may have on their usage will dictate what answers you get to your questions and how you will handle those answers.
In short I would say
"Liberal" resources are willing to explore different trains of thought and interpretations that go beyond or contrary to the status quo.
"Conservative" resources will stay mainstream usually reserving dogma to an internal textual basis.It depends a lot on your view on the inspiration of scripture.
I enjoy reading both types of resources. But it makes the most sense to me to read an adherent's take on things before reading a critic's (ie a Rabbi's take on things in Judaism, a Priest's take on things in Catholicism, a Pentecostal's on his own, etc.) Critics can frequently be dishonest in their representation of their target's beliefs.
It is also helpful to read those contrary to your own beliefs. It will help you sharpen your defenses or possibly change your incorrect preconceptions! Heaven forbid you be mistaken in some doctrine. [:O]Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
"Conservative" resources will stay mainstream usually reserving dogma to an internal textual basis.
I got into trouble when wrestling with Zacchaeus story: Salvation has come to this house(?hold), and was told that what I thought the text meant was wrong because 'it doesn't fit with doctrine'! I had been under the impression that doctrine should be tested against the Bible, not the Bible against doctrine...
In fact our understanding of the Bible is often affected by our theology, e.g. on this rock I will build my church.
Matthew jones: "It is also helpful to read those contrary to your own beliefs. It will help you sharpen your defenses or possibly change your incorrect preconceptions! Heaven forbid you be mistaken in some doctrine.
"I do agree!
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Luther Locklin said:
I finally just decided not to understand foreknowledge and election and move on.
I think that's an excellent approach. We sometimes get stuck in our study because we think we need to understand everything in the order that we encounter it. Sometimes we just need to accept that not everything is clear yet ("for now we see in a mirror dimly, but then we will see face to face") and move on to something else we can try to understand. Sometimes things we delve into later will shed light on something we had to leave a bit fuzzy when we first encountered it. There's a book called The Hermeneutical Spiral which describes this concept of how our understanding develops like a spiral as we go back over and over the same texts and concepts again, furnished with knew understanding that we've gained from the hermeneutical process (interpretation) on other parts of Scripture.
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Luther Locklin said:
I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal. I'm so new at this that when I don't understand something in the bible ... I have trouble figuring out which commentary will give me a biblical, even handed, understandable explanation. I finally just decided not to understand foreknowledge and election and move on.
I truly sympathize with you. I remember trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and desperately wishing for fair, even-handed, and irenic sources that would just lay it all out for me - and then let me prayerfully sort through it. Instead, I kept running into writers and speakers who always seemed to have an agenda that they wanted to push on me. It can be difficult, but one thing I came to realize and am thankful for is that my true teacher is not flesh and blood but the Spirit ... and He will lead you into all truth.
As to "foreknowledge and election" I wrestled with it for three solid years (and even dropped out of seminary during that time) until I came to understand it. Interestingly enough, I was just listening to some old sermons of a man who had a large impact on my theology and he just happened to mention that he wrestled with it for 15 years! I never knew that - I always assumed he was born with Calvin's Institutes in his hands. [;)]
So, don't be dismayed (or give up) if you don't absorb it all at first ... just put it on the backburner and let it simmer.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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JRS said:
I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal.
I just thought that I would mention, that even within groups of people who we may call conservative, there are differing doctrines. So the liberal/conservative is not always a good indicator, as to which way a given denomination will go.
One distinction I heard, which seems to work more accurately, is revisionist vs traditionalist. There are several places, which offer you a contrast of those two words. Here are a couple. You can also just search on the word "revisionist" in your Logos search.
http://www.logos.com/product/5417/new-international-encyclopedia-of-bible-difficulties
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Dan Sheppard said:
I just thought that I would mention, that even within groups of people who we may call conservative, there are differing doctrines.
This is an important point, also who we label conservative or liberal is determined by where we are on a continuum.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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One of my seminary professors (Jim Rosscup) has written a marvelous book that will guide you in selecting the right commentaries for your selected portion of scripture. This book is called 'Commentaries for Biblical Expositors' and is available through Logos.
http://www.logos.com/product/6259/commentaries-for-biblical-expositors
I have found this book to be very fair in the way he categorizes the exegetical, expositional and devotional flavor of each commentary. I strongly recommend it.
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Picked it up last July ['Commentaries for Biblical Expositors']
There are some 300 plus commentaries in my Logos Library and (fortunately) they do not all show up in every search. But every one of them claims to be “a biblical, even handed, understandable explanation.” and as being “fair, [and] even-handed” [as requested by two prior posters]
If I am working on a study for church (or church friends) I stick with the commentaries that would be "approved" by my church leaders. [If you do not understand just repeat what one was taught and name sources [in paster Sam's sermon on the 15th he said (...) or quote a church authority or say nothing]]
If I am working on a study for me I use them all (it takes a month or three to do the study) And when I get ‘stuck’ (as our friends above) I often find the ones most opposed to the ones that back what I was taught to be the most helpful. If I cannot accept or cannot follow the logic of the ones that I am ‘supposed’ to agree with then I try following the logic of those others. Have I been taught wrong and are these others correct? Or can I see the "holes" and "errors" in their logic even if I cannot see the "light" in the logic of my teachers?
And if both paths are blocked then fall back to the method expounded by Rosie Perera and her suggestion as found in the ”concept of how our understanding develops like a spiral” [about 5 posts back] Maybe I am not ready. I only think I need to know everything now.
[Is Logos 4 theologically biased? My answer would be that it is as biased as its customer base – what sells gets added to the list of recourses. But I think that has already been covered]
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David Ames said:
If I am working on a study for me I use them all (it takes a month or three to do the study) And when I get ‘stuck’ (as our friends above) I often find the ones most opposed to the ones that back what I was taught to be the most helpful. If I cannot accept or cannot follow the logic of the ones that I am ‘supposed’ to agree with then I try following the logic of those others. Have I been taught wrong and are these others correct? Or can I see the "holes" and "errors" in their logic even if I cannot see the "light" in the logic of my teachers?
I like your perspective on this, David.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Obviously, Logos is biased toward the Wesleyan perspective. Every time I study the Bible in Logos, my study points to a Wesleyan truth.
Of course, I am a Methodist preacher. Maybe that is why I like Logos so much. [:D]
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0
