Linux version of Logos Bible Software
Comments
-
MikeM said:
You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life. Or, you might be a consultant.
I am sorry, but I find that offensive. I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys". They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish. If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one. These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home.
Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people. They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service.
I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -
Yours because His,
Floyd
PS Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry. I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations. I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
1 -
BrianWhalen said:
Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.
Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.
0 -
Floyd Johnson said:MikeM said:
You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life. Or, you might be a consultant.
I am sorry, but I find that offensive. I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys". They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish. If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one. These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home.
Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people. They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service.
I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -
Yours because His,
Floyd
PS Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry. I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations. I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.
I'm sorry that you are offended, BUT if it's true, it's true. I have respect for older folks, but not necessarily older folks that are "experts" on everything yet never got anyplace in life. That doesn't mean that I have no compassion for them, it's just that I don't intend to take any advice from them.
If you were a young person starting in business would you go to the most successful businessperson around for advice, or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?
Try to rightly divide what someone is talking about and stay focused on what is being said. I did not compare the person that was trying to light a fire under my backside in a personal flame with every old person. You erroneously took it there. Go imagine that I said other things now.
0 -
MikeM said:BrianWhalen said:
Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.
Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.
In one sense this is the chicken and egg situation since one is useless without the other. Since, however, Logos' income is tied to the sale of resources, extra expense in the development of a marginal OS is likely to be down the drain.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
-
Floyd Johnson said:MikeM said:
or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?
Your continued insults tell me more about you, than about them. End of discussion!!
Floyd
Peace, Floyd. I think the two of you are talking about different groups. You are thinking of retired persons in retirement homes while he is thinking more of homeless persons who never retired because they never really did anything.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Erm...Is it time to think about possible reasons behind the question?
1) As a minister I have been using the Logos Scholar's Library for a number of years and find that it has been a superb investment. I want to continue to benefit from that investment.
2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use.
3) ESword is free and has an expanding library and has tempted more than one of my colleagues in ministry away from Logos. GnomeSword is the Ubuntu version of ESword. ESword also has a platform-neutral online version.
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.
Andrew
0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.
I am not an expert in the ins and outs of business decisions, but I do hope Logos is following this discussion, because I believe, Andrew, you have a good point. In Poland where we have lived the past 12 years, I also have seen many many ditch MS in favor of open source. These times make me harp back to the olden days when Logos was competing with others such as STEP and Bible Companion etc. And Logos won out because of wise decision making. I think others did not see what was coming on the horizon and lost the market and in some cases, even folded.
Logos has a superior product. But in a world of fast changing technology, a company on top could find its way on the bottom very quickly. And none of us with our investment in Libronix, want to see that.
It will be of no surprise to me at all if in the future, open source is more popular than MS. It all depends on decisions MS makes. But most of the world outside North America seem to be moving towards open source. Here in the USA, there seems to be much talk of moving towards cloud computing. I still dont see it being popular around the globe. Cloud computing means people in the Mid East who want to access Libronix on line may have extreme difficulty. People in China or Burma or other places...even in poorer regions where there is no cloud...the market for Logos would either disappear or never develop.
1 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.
Can you give more than anecdotal evidence? The trouble is, most of the surveys out there put the Linux userbase in general at 1% worldwide. It might even be less if only Christian users is taken into account. It might be higher or lower in the UK. Then whatever this Christian user base is, a smaller percentage would ever consider buying Logos Bible software.
Even at 1%, the question is can Logos even break even on the development of a Linux version of its software with that small of a market. If it can't, then it will have to subsidize it. I would assume this is the case and is why Logos appears to be ignoring it. (purely speculation)
FWIW, the same reports put the Mac userbase at 10% and the Windows user base at 90%.
0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.
If this were provably true -- with market share stats -- we'd be there. However I've got the real numbers on what it cost to get our software on the Mac, and what kind of sales that generated. I'm pretty sure that the Linux market is smaller than the Mac market, and if it's even a bit smaller (and I suspect it's 1/5th to 1/10th the size), then the numbers don't work.
I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold, but we need to do projects that make sense financially. I think we'll eventually have some level of support for a wider variety of operating systems, but probalby through the web. http://bible.logos.com and http://books.logos.com are examples of web delivery running on our underlying technology, and available to Win/Mac/Linux/whatever users. These types of solution will pencil out financially before a full port to Linux.
(Conceivably, we could deliver some richer experience through Moonlight, since we'll be using .NET technology moving forward. We'll have to see.)
0 -
I was not aware of these sites ... maybe you should consider sending an email out to your customers about them.
Is there any way to set up preferences the Bible site, re translations to have at the top?
I trust that you are heading for something that is as functional re orig lang's as blueletterbible.
It would be great to see Logos establish a big "footprint" in the free-web arena, esp re lexical and morphological aids.
=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use
You have arroused my curiosity. I know that many seem to be opposed to Microsoft for various reasons. I think mostly envy of their success might be the biggest reason. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that they objected to Microsoft on moral grounds. What might those be?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Trying not to drift off-topic but you did ask a direct question...
George Somsel said:AndrewJAllcock said:2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use
You have arroused my curiosity. I know that many seem to be opposed to Microsoft for various reasons. I think mostly envy of their success might be the biggest reason. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that they objected to Microsoft on moral grounds. What might those be?
OK , my assertions are based on anecdote - and without a comprehensive survey might prove to be unsustainable - but are what I have come to believe from the evidence of my own experience and conversations.
1) Numbers: Out of my current team ministry of three, two of us do not use Windows as our main OS; In the leadership of the church I left at the end of 2008 two out of six in leadership did not use Windows as their main OS; my former theological college is entirely Mac.
2) Reasons: many and varied I'm sure and would open a whole can of worms. For myself I believe that an effective MS monopoly for PC architecture cannot be equitable and I remain uneasy about how this effective monopoly has been attained. You might be correct in citing envy of success as a common motive but I would add to that a suspicion of success.
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
Can you give more than anecdotal evidence? The trouble is, most of the surveys out there put the Linux userbase in general at 1% worldwide. It might even be less if only Christian users is taken into account. It might be higher or lower in the UK. Then whatever this Christian user base is, a smaller percentage would ever consider buying Logos Bible software.
The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...[:)]
0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...
I have an academic interest in Linux, but no desire to use LOGOS on the platform. I have the latest version of Ubuntu - but have not yet installed it. If history is any indicator (though I realize it often is not), I probably won't. I wonder of how many like me are out here.
One more thought - the availability of LOGOS in Linux/Unix might confince me to install Linux, but doubt I would continue to use LOGOS on that platform, even after I installed it. Could be wrong, but having used Linux in the past, I expect it is true.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...
I submit that the thread title is provocative and suggests that the Linux version is being considered.Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics [;)]
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 -
Todd Phillips said:
Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics
1,474 read and 46 replied, well 47 now :-)
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理，真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.0 -
Yueh said:Todd Phillips said:
Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics
1,474 read and 46 replied, well 47 now :-)
I at least touch on all posts so they will not continue to show up in the unread posts list. The read stats may be skewed by such actions.
Jack
0 -
JimDean said:
http://bible.logos.com and http://books.logos.com
I was not aware of these sites ...
Here is another new site: http://transliterate.com/
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 2600k @ 4.6GHz | 8GB RAM @ 1866MHz | Intel SSD G2
0 -
Of course Logos can ignore Linux, the primary programmers I believe came from Microsoft, and a standard Windows user will be pretty lost if taken from their cozy Windows home. The investment to move to Linux would be huge. Unfortunately, when Logos opted to move into the Mac arena, they apparently did not chose that opportunity to use an environment that would have been compatible on multiple platforms with very little extra investment. One option is a cross-platform solution such as QT, and another is to develop against Crossover by Codeweavers. if they had, then I assume that this thread would have died.
The Codeweaverssolution, developing against crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com) would allow all those Windows programmers to mostly feel at home and develop against the Windows API, while providing a single solution that works on Windows, mac, and Linux. EA by Sparx systems does exactly this, and their products work great on multiple platforms because of it. notice that this does provide for IE, which is a libronix requirement I think.
My copies of Libronix have been sitting nicely in boxes and such for years. I am repeatedly asked "so, you ready to sell those yet?" It is probably time. I keep hoping that some year i will make this work, but I never do. I will test it against the latest version of crossover I think and either make it work, or sell it. No reason to keep things around that I do not use. Even my wife stopped using the windows computer that I built for her, opting instead to use the Linux box.
For the people here that seem to care a lot, well, you can bet money that Logos will do nothing to make the product work on Linux. This is not a condemnation of Logos or meant in any ill way. The money is not there for them. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, go to the code weavers web site and pay them to make Libronix will work on Linux. They will then do what is required to make it work. Probably take more money than you are willing to spend to make this happen, especially since it looks like Libronix may be using a few special MS libraries for license control, but it has never been worth my time to hack their software sufficiently to figure it out. Even if Codeweavers did fix things, the next release of Libronix might break what was done to allow Libronix to function. I have been pondering how many hundreds of dollars I should add to the reward pot on codeweavers site. I suppose that if I finally dump Libronix, then I will not be putting money in the pot.
You can be sure, however, that if you are trying to hack your way through making this work, Libronix will be responsive and help you try to make it work so that you can continue to use your favorite Bible software. I wonder if I will even recognize how the latest copies of Libronix work these days.
0 -
Apropos nothing in particular, anyone heard of Google Chrome?
Whether my assertions about current non-Windows OS useage stand up to close statistical scrutiny wider than my own network or not, Linux derivatives seem to be the future for PCs as money is supporting their development and distribution from the likes of Canonical and now a heavyweight like Google.
0 -
AndrewJAllcock said:
Whether my assertions about current non-Windows OS useage stand up to close statistical scrutiny wider than my own network or not, Linux derivatives seem to be the future for PCs as money is supporting their development and distribution from the likes of Canonical and now a heavyweight like Google.
Hi Andrew
My personal experience here in the UK contrasts with yours in that I do not know any Christians who use Linux and all those who have tried it have abandoned it as unusable. Whilst there may be a number of challengers to Windows on the horizon I think that Windows will remain dominant for some years to come. In Logos terms I don't expect that change to occur before Bob and the team are working on the design of version 5 and when it does occur I think we will find that much of the software we are using will be delivered on a 'Software As A Service' basis, something that Bob has already alluded to, where the underlying platform becomes irrelevant to the end user (us) and all we need is a system that runs a browser and is effectively a smart terminal.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
0 -
Graham Owen said:
My personal experience here in the UK contrasts with yours in that I do not know any Christians who use Linux and all those who have tried it have abandoned it as unusable.
I agree. I have a ton of techno programmer/developer friends and only one of them uses Linux as a desktop... oddly enough, even though they write open source programmes, they use Windows as their desktop and a few have moved to Mac in the last couple of years. The one friend that I do have that uses Linux for a desktop, would never consider paying money for Logos Bible Software. In fact, he pretty much believes in not paying for software, so he uses open source.
The trouble I see is that the average consumer just wants to buy a computer configured and use it. I know there are a growing number of netbooks and even mainstream PCs coming with Linux preloaded, but this is still arguably a very small percentage of the market. (I don't have access to any hard stats on this). Also, I think a lot of times consumers just buy what they know. They used a Windows PC at work, so they buy one for the home. They aren't really that fussed about what is superior technology or even a bit cheaper. They certainly in most cases aren't going to set up a dual boot, or even more drastic, format their windows hard drive to put Linux on.
Don't get me wrong, I love open source. I was using Linux before the media even figured out it existed quite some years ago (though I prefer FreeBSD). However, unless there are substantial changes in the market base, we won't see a lot of niche software like Logos on Linux. Perhaps Google and others will challenge the dominance of Windows, but I would guess we are looking at least five years away, probably 10.
The in the meantime, the answer is Virtual machines like Fusion, codeweavers, etc. which allow us to run Logos on Linux boxes. I would guess the trouble is with some of these solutions it is near impossible to expect Logos to provide technical support for Logos not running in a native environment, particularly for something like codeweavers. There are too many variables and possible Linux distros, configurations of hardware, etc. Certainly if someone were to post a problem with running Logos under one of these virtual machines on these forums, only a very small percentage of users would be able to answer.
I do agree though with some of the sentiment. Things are changing and no one knows where we are heading. Alternative OSes have not weakened, but strengthened in recent years. OSX was almost gone, but has made a huge comeback credit to some ingenuous work, moving to the Intel chipset and being based on BSD. Linux has made HUGE strides in being almost a one click install and certainly has made a huge impact in the server market. Google just announced this week that they were going to release their own OS for netbooks next year. So we'll see where this goes.....
0 -
Perhaps the conversation should progress in a new direction. It does appear to be unwise to switch platforms from MS to Linux because there are many many who use MS. Rather I am wondering if Logos could design Libronix in the future to work across platforms. In other words, whether one has a Mac, PC, whether one uses Linux or MS or another operating system, the program has been streamlined to install on all of them.
Once again I am not an expert in this field so I just brainstorm suggestions which may or may not be helpful. Cloud computing of course works regardless of OS and I guess I am becoming convinced that cloud computing should be an option. But I like the idea that it is not the only opiton and that we could have our purchased books downloaded. I would say, however, that if the cloud computing option is an option, why not build Libronix to be able to work offline as well regardless of os. Does that make sense?
0 -
MarkSwaim said:
Once again I am not an expert in this field so I just brainstorm suggestions which may or may not be helpful. Cloud computing of course works regardless of OS and I guess I am becoming convinced that cloud computing should be an option. But I like the idea that it is not the only opiton and that we could have our purchased books downloaded. I would say, however, that if the cloud computing option is an option, why not build Libronix to be able to work offline as well regardless of os. Does that make sense?
One possibility is to use Java. The trouble is in my opinion, is that I have never found an application that I really liked on Java. I know this is subjective, but it seems like there are compromises being cross platform in the design and integration into the host Operating System. In other words, Java apps always felt like they were really integrated. They looked different and lacked the polish. So far, I feel the same way about cloud computing. I guess the value here is that when I am working on my Mac, I want Logos to really be a full fledged Mac programme. Or when I am working on my wife's Vista desktop, I really want it to be a full fledged Vista application. So I guess what I am saying is that part of the beauty of Logos is that it looks and feels like it belongs in both those environments.
Good news is that without a doubt, things are continually developing and perhaps new things are around the corner.
0 -
You can develop in a cross platform way, and they have toolkits and other items that help you do this. On the other hand, the majority of developers know and Love the Windows environment. Learning the cross-platform environment takes time and effort, and since they already have a working program, the motivation is low.
Also, be clear, the Windows OS is not always easier, in fact, it is a more difficult install for most general purpose applications. For every computer that I have ever built, to make Windows work with a fresh install, I must find, download, and manually install system specific drivers. Until I do, I typically do not have access to things such as networking. Linux, however, includes most of their drivers with the installation, so most things just work. On the other hand, when they don't work with Linux, well, you may be out of luck.
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
Neither will the economy provide a boost, except that Linux distros improve their installation and provide an overall interface that functions in ways similar to Windows! It seems to be getting there with Ubuntu.
I've got 3 x Linux in my virtual machine on Win XP. I'm really impressed with the latest versions of Mint & Ubuntu because of their Windows-like behaviour during installation and when installing another package (I did not have to know about required components). Not so with Debian, and OpenSUSE was comparable to Vista in suggesting (for Linux) 1 GB of memory! Also, go figure why Debian's browser is called IceWeasel when the other's call the same browser Firefox!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Yueh said:
Once again, I am pushing foward for a Linux version of Logos, a lot of user are using Linux, and we have been struggling to break away from Windows, but Logos has always been the single software that require us to either dual boot or run a virtual machine with Linux OS.
Anyone share the same view?
I face the same problem. I want to get rid of Windows, but Logos prevents me.
Ubuntu!
0 -
My solution is to not run Logos. There are other solutions that work just fine on Linux. My opinion, however, is that they are not as nice, which is why I still have the software sitting on my shelf unused years later. If it were more important, I would install Windows in a VM.
0 -
Logos should go in the direction of cloud computing like the rest of the world. I am sure that they have already considered it. Sites like the ESV study Bible, etc, are where it will be at in the next few years.
- Bill
0
