Retiring the Send-to-Kindle Feature on 3/31
Comments
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Mark said:Mark Barnes said:
one way of mitigating the negatives would be for the Android app to better support e-Ink devices. Even simple changes like supporting hardware buttons, and an e-Ink colour scheme would help.
[Y]
The two most important changes I can think of that would be needed to better support Android e-reader devices would be:
1. In the Android app, add an option to disable page turn animations. For the iOS app this is unnecessary because all iOS devices are high-performance. Many lower and mid-range Android devices, and especially e-readers, however, could greatly benefit from this option. The code for this already exists, as the current "scroll" view in Android allows you to page turn with a tap with NO animations. It is EXTREMELY fast - far, far faster than the page turn with animations.
2. Allow users to choose between some font options, and make sure at least one of them looks great on e-readers.
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I suggested it sometime ago - perhaps LOGOS should create its own e-Ink device that can support LOGOS books in the standard format. It would not need to download the entire library, but only those books selected by the user. Perhaps it can overcome my biggest complaint about the LOGOS Android apps - speed. Page turning is tiringly slow compared to either Kindle or Nook. I prefer the tools that LOGOS provides for markup to those provided on Kindle and Nook, so perhaps those could be kept in some way.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Justin Gatlin said:
Put me on the list of people who bought a PaperWhite because of Send to Kindle. Pretty disappointed. It isn't a huge deal on its own because of the work-arounds, but combined with everything else which has happened in the last six months, it continues a steady erosion of trust.
That trust could be strengthened by some better transparency - there was a day when something negative happened, we got the story. Not now, not transparent at all in this case . It's hard to feel good when all we get from the company when a useful feature is taken away is "it's gone." One of the shortest messages of bad news in memory.
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Grace & Peace,
Bill
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BillS said:
To elaborate: A Kindle Fire is a modified Android App and, as such, runs the Android Mobile App. The "send to kindle" feature, although used by some users in creative ways, was always intended as a means to get resources on to the Kindle e-ink ("normal" kindle) devices.
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BillS said:
Well, it depends on which Kindle Fire - those with green checkmarks are still supported:
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Mark Barnes said:
Even simple changes like supporting hardware buttons, and an e-Ink colour scheme would help.
Interesting idea as, a priori, it does not seem too complicated: have "e-ink" as a fourth colour scheme along with sepia, normal, and night. Of course, this may not be ideal in that the "e-ink" mode would probably be best for use when reading during the day and the night colour scheme might still not be adequate for e-ink devices...
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Brian Losabia said:
Would Faithlife be able to "grandfather" the Send To Kindle function for folks who owned and/or purchased resources during the time window when Send to Kindle was available?
Nice idea! If they don't then its time to get sending those books to kindle now!
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Mark Barnes said:
This is terrible news. I rely on that feature, and it keeps my buying Logos books instead of Kindle books.
Agreed.
It's also deeply upsetting that even though this feature hasn't been available for any new resources for the last 6 months, some Faithlife employees have publicly denied that it affected all products, and continued to promote a feature which was broken. (I'm not saying they knew they were giving out misinformation, but unintentionally or not that's what happened - and it shouldn't have been allowed to). See for example, Mark Ward's reply to my comment in January at the very bottom of this Logos Talk post - where he was confident enough to contradict a forum post by another Faithlife employee.
This lack of transparency conveniently resulted in 6 months extra sales for Logos 6 base packages and resources based on a key feature (many have stated elsewhere that this was the primary reason they upgraded) which didn't work as advertised.
In the last 6 months I personally have bought many books in Logos format rather than kindle format because Faithlife staff told us that the send-to-kindle engine was being updated.
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Stephen Steele said:Mark Barnes said:
This is terrible news. I rely on that feature, and it keeps my buying Logos books instead of Kindle books.
Agreed.
It's also deeply upsetting that even though this feature hasn't been available for any new resources for the last 6 months, some Faithlife employees have publicly denied that it affected all products, and continued to promote a feature which was broken. (I'm not saying they knew they were giving out misinformation, but unintentionally or not that's what happened - and it shouldn't have been allowed to). See for example, Mark Ward's reply to my comment in January at the very bottom of this Logos Talk post - where he was confident enough to contradict a forum post by another Faithlife employee.
This lack of transparency conveniently resulted in 6 months extra sales for Logos 6 base packages and resources based on a key feature (many have stated elsewhere that this was the primary reason they upgraded) which didn't work as advertised.
In the last 6 months I personally have bought many books in Logos format rather than kindle format because Faithlife staff told us that the send-to-kindle engine was being updated.
I echo your frustration. Send-to-Kindle is an important feature for me as well.
(delete)
PCA Church
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See this article for a partial explanation:
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/amazon-disables-send-to-kindle-on-rival-bookstores
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:
See this article for a partial explanation:
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/amazon-disables-send-to-kindle-on-rival-bookstores
That puts a different complexion on things...
There's an even more detailed explanation here: http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/06/15/baen-books-reveals-amazons-byzantine-policies-on-kindle-email-delivery/
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:Floyd Johnson said:
See this article for a partial explanation:
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/amazon-disables-send-to-kindle-on-rival-bookstores
That puts a different complexion on things...
There's an even more detailed explanation here: http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/06/15/baen-books-reveals-amazons-byzantine-policies-on-kindle-email-delivery/
The solution would be to send us the documents via email directly... Except that would be potentially wrought with fraud... So no good either. [:s]
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alabama24 said:
The solution would be to send us the documents via email directly... Except that would be potentially wrought with fraud... So no good either.
That's not materially different than how it works now. They send the file directly to Amazon, but then through the Amazon Cloud Drive, you can get access to the .mobi and download it any time. I just tested it with the most recent book I sent to Kindle from Logos, and I was able to download and open the .mobi in Calibre just fine.
It does have the disclaimer at the top of the book: "For the personal use of William Gabriel (<logos email address>) only. Not for redistribution."
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Mark Barnes said:
That puts a different complexion on things...
There's an even more detailed explanation here: http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/06/15/baen-books-reveals-amazons-byzantine-policies-on-kindle-email-delivery/
Thanks, Mark. That was the article I originally saw a few weeks ago, but could not find it; so I posted the one I did. It would be helpful if LOGOS could create a MOBI or ePub file for us to upload.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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I'm guessing publishers are also not happy about this feature. That's why they probably don't offer a send to PDF as an alternative. I'd actually prefer that because then I could use it on an iPad with Apple Books or Good Reader.
I have read a few books on Kindle this way so I am also disappointed.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
I'm guessing publishers are also not happy about this feature. That's why they probably don't offer a send to PDF as an alternative. I'd actually prefer that because then I could use it on an iPad with Apple Books or Good Reader.
I have read a few books on Kindle this way so I am also disappointed.
Since Logos was so vague in the initial statement, I wonder if this is the biggest reason for change. The 100 page export limit is already relatively generous compared to what other ebook distributors allow, like Kindle. Amazon blocks copy/paste after about 1 chapter of a book (when I tried it last). So I have to imagine that language exists in the contracts with the publishers that allow for the more liberal 100 page limit.
I can imagine some of them arguing that the Send-to-Kindle feature violates that part of the language of the contract. I doubt all the publishers care, but it only takes one putting up a fight to take the whole thing down I imagine.
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I too am sad to lose this feature as I do a lot of reading on my Kindle (I much prefer e-ink to a screen for extended periods of reading). As as been said by others, this will affect what I buy from Logos. Before send-to-kindle, I only bought reference works on Logos (commentaries, grammars, lexicons, ect.), but bought special interest books, monographs, ect elsewhere because I would have to be hard put to actually want to read a book within the Faithlife ecosystem. I am sad to have to return to my previous habits because I would much rather give my money to Faithlife then "the others".
I would second the motion to develop an e-pub export system as an alternative. There are plenty of inexpensive alternatives to Kindle that will handle e-pub.
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Floyd Johnson said:
It would be helpful if LOGOS could create a MOBI or ePub file for us to upload.
[y]
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I'm not sure how I missed this thread but it somehow escaped my attention. This is sad sad sad news!!!!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Thank you for letting us know in advance. Even though this doesn't directly affect me, it makes me feel like my complaints have been heard.Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Due to a combination of technical, legal, and permission issues outside our control, we're going to retire the send-to-Kindle feature on 3/31. You'll be able to use the service through the end of the month. After that point, it will no longer work. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause you.
Update: Books already sent to Kindle will not be affected by this change. You will be able to continue to enjoy them on your Kindle after 3/31.
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Amazon seems to think they run the universe. Kindle is their platform so they can play bully. I am completely content using Kindle as an app mostly on tablet and mostly for free books.
I think Logos is great on tablet. We'll survive.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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While there may be licensing & permission issues outside Faithlife's control with sending copyrighted content to kindle - the same wouldn't be the case for public domain works.
Therefore there would be nothing stopping Logos having an 'export to kindle format' feature for public domain works, classic commentaries etc.
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Stephen Steele said:
While there may be licensing & permission issues outside Faithlife's control with sending copyrighted content to kindle - the same wouldn't be the case for public domain works.
The link above said that Amazon has been stopping third-parties sending lots of "Send to Kindle" requests on behalf of customers, so it's likely that this couldn't be an automated process.
Export would still be a possibility, but that does widen the piracy door.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Terrible news! Without this feature I will definitely buy less books from Logos... If possible, please, try to fix all the problems and bring this feature back!
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Mark Barnes said:
Export would still be a possibility, but that does widen the piracy door.
Maybe - depending on how big a problem piracy of public domain Christian books is.
But I'm sure that like me others already begrudge buying public domain works in Logos. And if they can't be sent to kindle and can only be read on a tablet, I'd rather read the original book on archive.org or Google books and save money in the process.
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I played a little with Send-To-Kindle. But, since I use an Android e-Ink device as well as an iPad, it wasn't a big deal for me. I can see how it is a big deal for others, though.
A caveat for anyone in the market for an Android E-Ink e-reader: some of these devices don't have the hardware acceleration settings that the current FL Android apps need, while others do. Three that I know work with current FL apps are the Boyue T62+, the Onyx Boox C67ML Carta, and the Icarus Illumina XL. The first two are 6 inch devices with a decent 212 dpi resolution. The latter is an 8 inch device with a slightly lower resolution (160 dpi).
The Boyue is my preferred reading device (though my discovery of the Bookmaster iPad app may make me use my iPad more often for reading). It works well with FL apps and has good battery life. The Onyx also works well, but has less battery life. The Icarus is larger, but with less screen resolution.
I would love to see FL implement a change in their Android apps to allow pages to be turned by E-Ink devices with physical page turn buttons. I'd also like to see a color scheme (high contrast) implemented as an option which would improve visibility of all app features on E-Ink devices.
That said, FL apps work well on my Boyue. In fact, my main reason for buying an Android E-Ink device was to run the Verbum app on it!
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Mark Barnes said:Stephen Steele said:
While there may be licensing & permission issues outside Faithlife's control with sending copyrighted content to kindle - the same wouldn't be the case for public domain works.
The link above said that Amazon has been stopping third-parties sending lots of "Send to Kindle" requests on behalf of customers, so it's likely that this couldn't be an automated process.
Export would still be a possibility, but that does widen the piracy door.
The links above both stated that Amazon stopped those third-parties technically by imposing limits per sender's adress and basing this on a contract clause that permits charging for the services. This has nothing to do with piracy at all - it has to do with the aspect that Amazon doesn't like other companies that sell electronic content (i.e. competitors) allow their customers to use the Amazon kindle platform for legal, paid products.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
This has nothing to do with piracy at all
I think the "piracy" issue Mark referenced is on FL's side. The way that "send to kindle" currently works, users had to give a SINGLE kindle email address, where the files would be sent. It would be easier to commit piracy if the files were sent directly to one's personal email address, where the user could "sell" the resource to whomever.
I do understand that the user could have done something similar before, but the current system makes it a little harder... especially for the novice user. Those who REALLY want to break the law can find ways to do so. A bigger issue may be all the little law breakers (perhaps unintentionally) who say to their buddy: "Hey, I have that book. Want me to send it to you?"
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Mark Nolette said:
A caveat for anyone in the market for an Android E-Ink e-reader: some of these devices don't have the hardware acceleration settings that the current FL Android apps need, while others do. Three that I know work with current FL apps are the Boyue T62+, the Onyx Boox C67ML Carta, and the Icarus Illumina XL. The first two are 6 inch devices with a decent 212 dpi resolution. The latter is an 8 inch device with a slightly lower resolution (160 dpi).
Thank you very much for this list. I plan on investing in one of these devices in the next month.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Due to a combination of technical, legal, and permission issues outside our control, we're going to retire the send-to-Kindle feature on 3/31. You'll be able to use the service through the end of the month. After that point, it will no longer work. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause you.
Update: Books already sent to Kindle will not be affected by this change. You will be able to continue to enjoy them on your Kindle after 3/31.
Thanks for the heads-up. This is sad news. I didn't use the feature all the time but when I did, I loved it. For some things, reading on my kindle paperwhite was so much better. I hope that this can make a return in the future
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Well... I've just sent a dozen or so over, and I already have a few hundred on my Kindle now so I'll have plenty of casual reading for awhile.
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That feature was the only reason I ever bought books through Logos. Until an equivalent feature is added, I won't be purchasing anything else.
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Michael Grinder said:
That feature was the only reason I ever bought books through Logos. Until an equivalent feature is added, I won't be purchasing anything else.
I too am disappointed but I would not say it was the "only" reason why I bought books through Logos. I'm curious, do you not find any value in the desktop and mobile applications?
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Bruce Dunning said:Michael Grinder said:
That feature was the only reason I ever bought books through Logos. Until an equivalent feature is added, I won't be purchasing anything else.
I too am disappointed but I would not say it was the "only" reason why I bought books through Logos. I'm curious, do you not find any value in the desktop and mobile applications?
Did you only buy books from Faithlife that were unavailable on Amazon for the Kindle or that were cheaper from Faithlife?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Well bummer. My Kindle Voyage (e ink), which I bought for this specific purpose, had become my preferred way of reading books from cover to cover.
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I am absolutely floored by this. Words fail me.
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For those that are interested, I've created a quick video tutorial on what it will take to get your books onto a Kindle after 31 March. You might want to watch that to decide whether to spend the next two weeks sending hundreds of books to Kindle, just in case! After reviewing my options, I've decided not to do that.
Video Tutorial: How to Send to Kindle after the "Send to Kindle" service is switched off
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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What is "The old way"
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Ragnheðin Ryggstein said:
What is "The old way"
See Mark's thread here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/124007.aspx
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I wonder if Logos would be willing to make an export format that we could then manually send to kindle on our own to keep the hyperlinks. That way Logos doesn't have to be the one to interact with Kindle, but we could still send to Kindle with hyperlinks
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
This is just really, really poor customer service. You're removing a feature that adds value to all our resources. I'll definitely be purchasing items on amazon rather than on logos because of this. Please consider allowing books to be downloaded as epub or mobi files to compensate users for the loss of this feature. It seems deceptive that you advertised this as a feature that people based their decision to upgrade on, and now you're removing it. If this wasn't Bible software, you would probably find yourselves having to deal with a class-action lawsuit. Please consider reversing your decision or providing an alternative.
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Nathanael King said:
This is just really, really poor customer service.
You did notice that there are legal considerations, right?
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Due to a combination of technical, legal, and permission issues outside our control, we're going to retire the send-to-Kindle feature on 3/31.
http://shop.oreilly.com/category/customer-service/kindle.do
https://www.reddit.com/r/kindle/comments/30e3lr/amazon_pulls_plug_from_the_free_send_to_kindle/
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/amazon-disables-send-to-kindle-on-rival-bookstores
My take is a bit different as I had wondered about legal issues when it was first implemented ,,, but I think we need to be realistic and find legal and ethical ways to get the functionality we need.
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Nathanael King said: Please consider reversing your decision or providing an alternative.
For alternative, see thread => Video Tutorial: How to Send to Kindle after the "Send to Kindle" service is switched off
Nathanael King said:This is just really, really poor customer service.
Observation: Amazon has a business incentive to encourage more purchases for Amazon by discouraging other eBook sellers from sending to Kindle.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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WOW! This is so sad to hear.[:'(]
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I just got an email about this today....and it's already disabled. I do wish I knew about that because I used the feature last year and just started using it again a few days ago. I would have sent over a few more books. I really wish you emailed this out to me sooner!!
I love that in the devotional I sent over I can read my preferred version through hyperlinks. That's pretty amazing.
Will it be possible to export a .mobi or .epub in the near future?
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Very sad to hear of this. I wish I would have heard of it before today. This feature is a MAJOR draw to Logos and one reason I have chosen to buy logos formats over other features.
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I just got an email about this today....and it's already disabled. I do wish I knew about that because I used the feature last year and just started using it again a few days ago. I would have sent over a few more books. I really wish you emailed this out to me sooner!!
I love that in the devotional I sent over I can read my preferred version through hyperlinks. That's pretty amazing.
178294z said:Very sad to hear of this. I wish I would have heard of it before today. This feature is a MAJOR draw to Logos and one reason I have chosen to buy logos formats over other features.
I'm really sorry this is the first you'd heard of it. Anyone who used the feature was supposed to be notified a few weeks ago, but it looks like that didn't happen. I'm going to see if we can keep the feature active for another couple of weeks for those of you who didn't get notified before today.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
I'm really sorry this is the first you'd heard of it. Anyone who used the feature was supposed to be notified a few weeks ago, but it looks like that didn't happen. I'm going to see if we can keep the feature active for another couple of weeks for those of you who didn't get notified before today.
First I've heard of this was tonight, which prompted me to checkout the Forum list to see if there were more details. I was surprised that it was allowed for this long of a time period...we live in a more secular world than at any time before. This won't change any of my buying habits with FL, but I wish I didn't need to buy from Amazon, since it isn't close to what I get from Logos, Many more things I could say, other than Amazon has been a bad crutch in my life, and like with so many other things, it's too easy to spend unnecessary money on "things".
Blessings,
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I too was not notified of this until today and feature appears switched off. I am going to Israel and wanted to get a few of my commentaries on my Kindle since I won't be able to take my laptop with me on the trip. reading on the Kindle is so much more convenient then the laptop or iPad at times. You can read outside in the daylight where that is impossible on a laptop or iPad
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