worth keeping?

Excuse me. Have you confused Logos Cloud and Logos Now? Logos Now is intended to primarily add features and resources to the desktop application and is intended primarily for people with a significant investment in Logos. Logos Cloud includes the desktop application but is anticipated to eventually be primarily a cloud application without ownership.

Yes, the cloud application is a work in progress - with recent work being more focused on the infrastructure which doesn't give the user new functions but builds the base for them. I agree that at the moment the value of the Logos Cloud is the resources added to you base package ... with the cloud app a future value.

For Logos Now, you need to look at the value of the multiview panel, a number of manuscript based and other interactives, the Concordance tool, ... to see whether or not it has value to it. https://www.logos.com/now has a list of the Logos Now features.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834164#Comment_834164

MJ. Smith,

Thank you for your response. What I am referring to is the Logos Web App (found at https://app.logos.com/books/LLS%3A1.0.710/references/2%20Peter%201%3A1) which, according to www.logos.com/now is an "exclusive benefit." If that is what you are calling the "cloud," then I guess you are correct in that I was confusing the "exclusive benefit" of Logos Now's Web Application with Logos Now itself. My understanding, however, is that a cloud is simply storage, while an app has functionality. The web app is basically the only reason I subscribed to Logos Now, and that only because I wanted to be able to do research (mainly for homework assignments) while away from my Logos Desktop enable machines hoping that it would have the same functionality as the Logos Desktop (otherwise, why pay for it?). As I already own over 7,000 resources, I do not see the benefit of Logos Now simply for a few "added features" that I either (a) already own, or (b) will never use. There is the possibility that I am actually using those "features" without knowing that they are Logos Now added features, because there is nothing (that I have seen unless I just haven't used any since subscribing) to indicate whether you are using regular Logos Desktop features or the Logos Now features. To be honest, this whole Logos Now thing is confusing. Or, perhaps, I'm just not very bright, in which case, I really don't need all of those "added features" because I don't know how to use them.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834185#Comment_834185

The web app is in a beta state. "Logos Now" is a service, with a number of different benefits. ONE of those benefits is access to the beta of the web app. Another benefit is early access to FUTURE features (including some datasets).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834186#Comment_834186

sooo...basically, if I don't mind waiting for Logos to release the software updates, and I am unhappy with the Web App, then I should cancel my subscription?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834188#Comment_834188

should cancel my subscription?

Perhaps, but for clarification:

if I don't mind waiting for Logos to release the software updates

Many of the "new features" and "datasets" I referenced won't be part of a free engine... to acquire them in the future will require the purchase of a new base package and/or cross grade. If you prefer to "rent" (subscribe) to features at a lower initial price point, LN might be right for you.

Also: If you like trying out new resources, taking free courses, getting bonus discounts, FN might be for you. Faithlife envisions LN to be a SERVICE. They have used the analogy of Amazon Prime as an example to describe how they view it. Amazon Prime began as an "all you can eat" buffet of free, 2 day shipping. Over time, Amazon added a Netflix style video service, a spotify style music service, early access to flash sales, etc.

Personally, I am a "buy" person... So my motivation for LN continuing with it has to be more than just the rental component.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834188#Comment_834188

I am unhappy with the Web App, then I should cancel my subscription?

If you enrolled solely or primarily for the WebApp, then while it is in beta it probably is not worth a subscription. However, I would keep an eye on it as I would expect fairly quick development once a truly solid infrastructure is deployed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834212#Comment_834212

Thank you both for your input. With your help, I have come to a decision. My current base packages are: Logos 6 diamond, Anglican diamond, and Pentecostal & Charismatic Gold, so I believe I already have all of the features and datasets that LN provides. Basically, it seems that I am paying $9.00/mo for stuff that I already have. Since I am unhappy with the Web App, I will cancel my subscription before the new month and keep checking on updates to the beta version. If it ever gets to the point where it works just like the desktop then I may renew my subscription. If I lose any features that I actually use that are exclusive to LN then I also may reconsider. However, if I ever do decide to re-engage with LN, I would just pay for the year instead of monthly. Again, thank you all for helping me come to this conclusion.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834285#Comment_834285

so I believe I already have all of the features and datasets that LN provides

...but you don't. As I said above, ONE of the benefits is early access to FUTURE features. You don't own ANY of the LN features and datasets.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834285#Comment_834285

If I lose any features that I actually use that are exclusive to LN then I also may reconsider.

You will loose all Logos Now features - immediately upon the end of your subscription ... we've had to answer that several times when people failed to renew ...

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834285#Comment_834285

If you want to see what specific features Logos Now provides you, check this thread:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/105147.aspx

I also originally subscribed primarily for the web app. I've been disappointed with the general lack of usability and the glacially slow progress in development and implementation to the point that I don't even try to use it anymore. HOWEVER, Logos Now offers enough other good features to keep me subscribing, and I've thoroughly enjoyed some of the resources the subscription has given access to. Those are also listed on the page linked above.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834300#Comment_834300

Man, I gotta say, you guys are making feel a little "wishy-washy" right now. That being said, congratulations! You have convinced me to maintain my subscription to Logos Now. Thank you all for your guidance in helping me make my final decision.

Dr. Keith Pang Ph.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834449#Comment_834449

I would keep it too man! For whatever my opinion is worth haha

Phil Gons (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834449#Comment_834449

Man, I gotta say, you guys are making feel a little "wishy-washy" right now. That being said, congratulations! You have convinced me to maintain my subscription to Logos Now. Thank you all for your guidance in helping me make my final decision.

Dwayne, we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future. I think you'll be glad you decided to keep it.

Suzy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834451#Comment_834451

Dwayne, we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future.

And for Verbum Now subscribers? Hoping, hoping..[:)]

Phil Gons (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834454#Comment_834454

Dwayne, we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future.

And for Verbum Now subscribers? Hoping, hoping..

Yes. Verbum Now subscribers as well.

Suzy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834456#Comment_834456

Dwayne, we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future.

And for Verbum Now subscribers? Hoping, hoping..

Yes. Verbum Now subscribers as well.

WooHoo Thank You [:D]

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834451#Comment_834451

Man, I gotta say, you guys are making feel a little "wishy-washy" right now. That being said, congratulations! You have convinced me to maintain my subscription to Logos Now. Thank you all for your guidance in helping me make my final decision.

Dwayne, we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future. I think you'll be glad you decided to keep it.

[Y]

David Medina

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834456#Comment_834456

Thanks Phil.

John Crupper

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I tried a month when Logos Now was first released. Stopped it after the first month. About three months ago I decided to watch the help videos on Logos Now and decided to sign up again. There are a lot of cool features, but the one that I like a lot is being able to set it up so that the lexicons open to the word you want to study just by clicking it in the Bible text. I have an OT and a NT saved work space where I have the lexicons I want in a tabbed window next to the text. Makes is very easy to reference them.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/834451#Comment_834451

we have some cool things in store for Logos Now members in the near future. I think you'll be glad you decided to keep it.

That has been the sales pitch from Logos Now's introduction! And as long as development continues, it will continue to be a selling point. I look at Logos Now like a subscription magazine with a continued story. A new chapter being released with each magazine issue. But each chapter leaves you in suspense for the next issue. From time to time, the stories all get combined into the next edition of the book (Logos 6, Logos 7, etc.).

Those of us who are so poor we can't eve pay attention, wait for the next book (desktop version). The more financially endowed (or fiscally imprudent) are like those who subscribe to a monthly magazine and read the chapters as they come out (Logos Now subscription).

Logos wants the subscription to succeed because it brings a continuous monthly revenue stream to the company. Many people hate such a model so I wait for the next version of Logos Desktop. Because Logos 6 has far more features than I currently use, or even remember, I would subscribe to Logos Now if it provided an automatic and no-cost upgrade for Logos 7 users, when Logos 7 arrives this fall. But to to subscribe is like renting and receiving no equity.

Robyn VH.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836063#Comment_836063

Yes I find that I am not using all the features,I signed up so I could enjoy the preview of material and make better informed purchasing decisions. However it seems I to be progressively diminishing number of items to preview as is the discounts available if you decide to purchase.

I was using Between the Cross and Revelation to help format my small group study that I am running - but that disappeared on the first with still no advise of discount to purchase. So I am wondering about my options ....I bought the discounted year subscription with free book that i am also not using. .

Robyn VH.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836085#Comment_836085

OK I just received the 20% discount option for July resources hmm mm how much do I want the book ... I am now using another one that was already in my library.

Is there anything new coming with the next 6-week release for Logos Now subscribers (6.14)? From the description on the Beta forum, it looks like the next release is a series of bug fixes, but no new features/capabilities. Logos Now is advertised as follows:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836213#Comment_836213

I would suspect that this implies the new features are data driven rather than software changes. Some of the interactives have not shown up until the last minute in beta testing. If you have been watching the classification of the Factbook items, it is clear that there is something afoot.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836240#Comment_836240

I'm wondering...when Logos 7 releases in fall, is it going to have everything that Logos Now currently has?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836353#Comment_836353

I'm wondering...when Logos 7 releases in fall, is it going to have everything that Logos Now currently has?

That is the dilemma that Logos faces. Every company would like a subscription type of service with its guaranteed monthly income. But services either need to save money or provide must-have features. If Logos Now doesn't provide features that Logos 6 (and future unannounced updates) does not provide, or it it doesn't save money, what's the point of a customer subscribing to it? On the other hand, Logos 6 (currently) is the flagship Logos program and the company has staked its reputation on supporting it. If future Logos stand-alone desktop software is lacking features, or perceived to be lacking features, Logos risks alienating its user base who have options elsewhere.

For example, a concordance search, is basic to Bible programs yet is clumsy or cumbersome on Logos 6. This concordance "feature" is highlighted and advertised as a feature of Logos Now and a reason to subscribe to Logos Now. But Is this basic "feature" worth spending an extra $100/year? Many Logos 6 owners have a satisfactory work around—they either do simple Bible searches on the web or use a competitor Bible program which excels in this basic "feature."

When Logos Now was introduced, the company seemed to flounder around trying to provide a satisfactory reason for users to make this additional expenditure. From my perspective—a budget restricted, Bible-software user—they still don't have a very compelling argument. At some point, Logos Now must have feature exclusivity (i.e. Logos desktop must be "crippled") or Logos Now must save money for the budget conscious user.

It remains interesting to monitor the forums on this.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836353#Comment_836353

when Logos 7 releases in fall, is it going to have everything that Logos Now currently has?

I would suspect not. I may be wrong but I would think that features that run in the Cloud and therefore have an ongoing monthly cost to Logos will remain solely subscription features. But I'm not a business person - I'm simply looking at the logic of the division been purchased vs. subscription.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836376#Comment_836376

I'm wondering...when Logos 7 releases in fall, is it going to have everything that Logos Now currently has?

I understand your main premise here, and agree with most of your points. However, I must say that I don't understand your gripe with concordances. I'm sure your library has at least one, if not several concordances and lexicons. There is a simple and easy way to search all of your concordances at once. First, open your search function. Then click on the basic search. Then click on the "search in" drop down menu. Type "concordance." You should get a selection that shows how many of your resources either have concordance in the title or are labeled as concordance as "type" of resource. See image below.

Just click on the "number of (in my case 21) resources with concordance." That is now your search parameters. See below how my search parameters went from "everything" to "21 resources with concordance."

Then you just type whatever word it is that you want to search for. However, in my opinion, the "Bible" search is what a concordance really is. If you open the same search page that you see above but click on "Bible" instead of "Basic" it will search your bibles for whatever word you are looking for. I think that is much more powerful than any concordance you could have, as concordances are limited in the amount of words they contain. For instance, you will not find the word "and" in a concordance. However, you could search for the word "and" in the Logos Search function and it will tell you every instance of every version of the bible you own where the word "and" is found. Granted, the search may take a few minutes because the word "and" is probably going to be found over a million times. My point is that a "concordance" search in Logos is not confusing or cumbersome at all. Another way you could do it is to make your concordances a collection. Then when you open the search parameter drop down, it will show up as a collection. However, as stated, the simplest way is to utilize the built-in "concordance" that Logos calls "Bible Search." See below where I searched all of my bible for the word "angel."

As you can see there are multiple views you can use (Grid, Verses, Aligned, Analysis). Also, within seconds I have over 16 pages of results in 72 different versions of the bible for a total of 15,441 times the word "angel" has appeared in all of my bibles. I don't think that is cumbersome or confusing. That literally took me less than 3 seconds to type "angels" and hit the enter key to get those results.

Again, your concordance is the Bible Search function within Logos. That is the simplest and quickest way I can think of to run a "concordance" search. If anybody else knows of a better, faster, or easier way, please chime in.

Bottom line, I agree with most of your gripes against the "trap" that is Logos. However, I have to disagree with your statement that concordance searches are cumbersome and confusing. Logos is very powerful and has TONS of search options and guide functions. If there is one resource that you buy separately to add to your collection, my suggestion would be the Camp Logos 1&2 video series. They are VERY helpful!!!! And oh, by the way...you can currently watch all of the videos in the series for free at FaithliveTV. I do not know how much longer they will be on there, so I suggest you and anyone else that might be interested in this valuable and powerful learning tool to check it out and watch the videos ASAP. The free learning videos are at: https://www.faithlifetv.com/item/345332 (for Camp Logos 1) and https://www.faithlifetv.com/item/345433 (for Camp Logos 2). I hope the above information helps you out. Sorry this was so long.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836383#Comment_836383

Dwayne - thanks for your great explanation.

However, I believe Thinking is referring specifically to the Concordance Tool available in Logos Now which provided a different ways of browsing for information in Bibles and other resources.

This tool is outlined at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/105207/727617.aspx

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836213#Comment_836213

Is there anything new coming with the next 6-week release for Logos Now subscribers (6.14)? From the description on the Beta forum, it looks like the next release is a series of bug fixes, but no new features/capabilities. Logos Now is advertised as follows:

I guess this answers it: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/128695.aspx

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836383#Comment_836383

I don't understand your gripe with concordances

I don't have a gripe with concordances. Often there is a trade off between power and simplicity. Logos has power. I like it. It took me several years to get used to its very flexible search routines and I now have a Bible search tab that I invoke with a click from the menu line. But it took a long time to figure out how to do such a basic function quickly and easily. It was definitely not intuitive! Your instructions are excellent and should be a must read for beginners.

But I was referring to the concordance feature of Logos Now. This can be applied to ANY book and strikes me as a great feature. It made me almost purchase Logos Now.

I don't have a gripe with Logos Now. I think it is great for people that can afford it. However, market forces are powerful and my post was simply stating the obvious. The new announcement on the change in Logos Now shows that market forces are at work. I am very interested in this and how it will be tied to providing important extensions to the rumored Logos 7.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836534#Comment_836534

I don't understand your gripe with concordances

I don't have a gripe with concordances...But I was referring to the concordance feature of Logos Now.

AH! OK! Sorry. I was trying to be helpful. Sorry if it sounded negative or condescending or anything like that. It wasn't my intention. I was only trying to be a good little citizen [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/836575#Comment_836575

I was only trying to be a good little citizen

You were. I thought it was a great post. It only needed one more step, how to make the search one click on the menu line. Then it should be the beginners tip of the week.