Rights restricted on vyrso.com but not on logos.com
Callilng on the Name of the Lord by Gary Millar has no rights restrictions when purchased from Logos.com as part of a bundle but when you purchase it as a standalone resources it is rights restricted to US and Canada.
https://www.logos.com/product/81279/new-studies-in-biblical-theology-upgrade
https://vyrso.com/product/80388/calling-on-the-name-of-the-lord
Personally a book like this should not be in vyrso format due to the large number of bible reference links in a resource like it, but that's another issue.
So is the rights restriction on vyrso.com an error or is something else at play ?
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This is really weird Disciple of Christ (doc)
But then numerous weird and strange things have been happening with books on VYRSO over the past 3 months.
[^o)]
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
So is the rights restriction on vyrso.com an error or is something else at play ?
Don't know... interesting question. The publishers are different (IVP vs IVP UK) which lends to the rights restriction theory.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
a book like this should not be in vyrso format due to the large number of bible reference links in a resource like it, but that's another issue.
OT but to your issue: There's no reason a book with a large number of bible reference links not to be in Vyrso. The Vyrso book compiler works much like the PB compiler and will detect bible references automatically - even if there are many of them.
What throws this automation off is incomplete references referring not to the same book / chapter than the last reference. Typically this does not occur in topical books with large numbers of references, but in commentary resources, monographs dealing with one book/chapter/verse or bible book surveys, where the reader has the advantage of meta-knowledge (this whole resource/this chapter in the resource is about Jeremiah (chap 39), so any incomplete bible verse reference out of the blue, e.g. "as we clearly see in v.7" will refer to this book/chapter, rather than to the last reference used).
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
What throws this automation off is incomplete references referring not to the same book / chapter than the last reference.
Exaclty why these sort of books do not belong in Vyrso IMHO.
NB.Mick said:Typically this does not occur in topical books with large numbers of references,
Typically is not a satisfactory situation for my user experience of these resources that don't typically include full references. Vyrso as a result is not able to keep its claims about the features and benefits of the app, because as you point out, less than full references do not always compile in the correct way because they don't always refer to the same book / chapter as the last full reference.
You will never convince me there is a place for books like this in Vyrso while Faithlife continues to make these misleading claims - and you will not convince me that they are not being misleading. Your comments here only reinforce my view these claims are misleading and should be removed from their website if their costing model doesn't allow them to do due diligence on quality control of the conversion of bible references into the correct hyperlink on every occasion, rather than simply on those occasions where they have make no effort to get it right.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Typically is not a satisfactory situation for my user experience of these resources that don't typically include full references. Vyrso as a result is not able to keep its claims about the features and benefits of the app, because as you point out, less than full references do not always compile in the correct way because they don't always refer to the same book / chapter as the last full reference.
Well, I made the test. Since - as you pointed out in your original post - as an international customer I'm not allowed to buy that Vyrso book, I decided to look for a book that would have a large number of references and be a topical theological work, then to look up the scripture references. I went for edition:e -fiction in my library, selected publisher Abingdon (I think everyone agrees most of their Vyrso offers would belong into Logos format if they just were willing to contract that with Faithlife) and settled for Joel B. Green's "Why Salvation?" ( Logos URL ) which clearly is a scholarly work. I checked the first 50 bible references - which gets me through introduction unto somewhere in the middle of the first chapter - and found the following:
- all surface-text bible references are intact (i.e. they are detected and lead to the place where they should lead to), not one goes astray
- this refers to chapter and verse references, including incomplete references
- this even works for obscure apocrypha references to 4 Ezra (which are displayed correctly in 2 Esdras on mouse over according to the NRSV bible verse map)
- the only instance of mistaken references is in footnote 1 where the author explains the complex situation of 4 Ezra. The chapter numbers are not meant as bible references but mistakenly assumed to refer to a different book, Phil.
- other than that, the resource shows no issues at all of minor quality in the text and layout; footnotes, Greek and Hebrew text are proper.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:You will never convince me there is a place for books like this in Vyrso
Well, they are 'here', and some seem to stay.
To make myself clear: I very strongly prefer having a book in Vyrso rather than not at all (and especially with some publishers, like with Abingdon, those are the only two alternatives). Moreover, Faithlife will pull books with quality issues from Vyrso - but lobbying for the exclusion of books will make the lives of those people poorer who'd like to read them in their Logos installation rather than to buy a kindle or ePub version of it, while it doesn't make anybody better off.There are way too many books held from Vyrso because Faithlife believes they may 'someday' publish them in Logos format (these will surely start showing up in PrePub soon after EEC has been fully released - make sure your grandchildren look out for it )
In fact, in those cases where a pulisher works with both platforms, it seems our choices would be having it in Vyrso now or having it much later and locked up in a rather expensive bundle in Logos. Most often we can't choose, but if I could, then I'd often prefer the Vyrso edition and wouldn't care much about the barely noticeable differences to Logos versions.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB Mick the point is the book is sold unrestricted in Logos as part of that 2 book upgrade. One thing in particular I will say is if the package is ever broken up it will obviously be pulled from Vyrso so in the end perhaps FL decided rights for the standalone version need not be pursued beyond their primary market of North America.
dan
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Dan Francis said:
NB Mick the point is the book is sold unrestricted in Logos as part of that 2 book upgrade.
I got that point. I just choose not to comment on it, but on an OT remark I cited.
Dan Francis said:One thing in particular I will say is if the package is ever broken up it will obviously be pulled from Vyrso
Maybe they will pull the resource from Varso even now. One reason for me to post was that I think nobody buying such a resource from Vyrso (now that it's still available) needs to fear they get only something so inferior that it is practically unusable.
Dan Francis said:perhaps FL decided rights for the standalone version need not be pursued beyond their primary market of North America.
We have no basis for such speculations. It seems they currently believe they have the rights to sell the resource (as part of a bundle) from Logos.com globally. Otherwise there would be a rights restriction or an "international version" of the bundle on logos.com. If something is amiss with the international rights at all, it is much more probable that this was overlooked and might now be 'corrected'. Those non-NA-customers who are interested should buy as long there's a chance to do so.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
We have no basis for such speculations. It seems they currently believe they have the rights to sell the resource (as part of a bundle) from Logos.com globally. Otherwise there would be a rights restriction or an "international version" of the bundle on logos.com. If something is amiss with the international rights at all, it is much more probable that this was overlooked and might now be 'corrected'. Those non-NA-customers who are interested should buy as long there's a chance to do so.
True but quite often we have seen N.A. only books... I never meant to imply that Logos cares not for global customers only that they often bring to market a N.A. version sometimes years before they secure international rights. Now if there was not a substantial enough base for the process of a book, indeed it happens often enough for me to speculate that at this time a significant percentage if not majority of customers are N.A. When I spoke of not wanting to go through the trouble of international rights i was thinking that negotiations were likely already underway in Logos while as i understand it verse books are more contract designed for cheap ebooks that come in a format that is automatically translated into vyrso with no manual handling. This happens almost automatically as several books of questionable character had slipped into vyrso. A Vyrso title has completely different contracts and indeed a vyrso title cannot automatically be transferred over to the Logos sight Bob or perhaps it was Erin said... You cannot search for vyrso books in Logos or vice versa because each store is it's own distribution point governed as i understand it by contracts that forbids it. They share a common format but not a common store... much like some epub readers can be set up to use books drmed by multiple sources. I took advantage of this title just today in that for me I wanted one but not the other book in the upgrade set, dropping the price by over half. I do apologoze to Faithlife if it seemed I was ascribing a lack of concern for their global customers. Perhaps it should have been better for me to say the automated contracts to vyrso may not have flexibility in many cases. Since i believe IVP is one that they get everything they can from, unless it has been flagged as a forthcoming Logos title. But even then (and this time I know it was Erin said it) some tittles fall through the cracks because it is largely an automated process.
-Dan
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