Pentecostal and Charismatic Should be Seperated

Pentecostal and Charismatic Base packages should be separated and distinguished from each other.

A Pentecostal Base Package should have something similar to the Wesleyan Base Package with additional works by strictly Pentecostal publishers. Other works that could be added are some from the Baptist stream. It is not appropriate to add works which stem from the independent Charismatic movement, such as C. Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, et al. Theologically and practically they are very different from Pentecostals.

A Charismatic Base package should include Baptist, Presbyterian, some Pentecostal works, Independent Charismatic works (Dutch Sheets et al). It should be much more varied denominationally than the Pentecostal Package is. Charismatic refers to non-Pentecostals from various denominations or independent movements who do not belong in the Pentecostal category. C Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, and many of the earlier such as J Rodman Williams.

In general, in my opinion, traditional Pentecostals would object to too much Independent Charismatic material in their base package. I believe that Faithlife needs to do more research on this. If their researcher is Charismatic, they may not fully understand the difference. The reason is not that Charismatics are ignorant, God forbid, that's not what I am saying. But Charismatics are far more open and accepting of novel ideas (e.g. Open Theism [C Peter Wagner, Harold Eberle], Calvinism [Sam Storms, Wayne Grudem]) than traditional Pentecostals.

Find more posts tagged with

Pentecostal & Charismatic Products

Comments

MJ. Smith

I'm no expert on the topic but my simplistic rule of thumb has been:

Pentecostals are the charismatics who broke from their base denomination and founded a new denomination or independent church.
Charismatics have the same basic configuration of beliefs but remained within their base denomination as a specific strain of theology and practices. As such, charismatics keep a more conservative base of beliefs than Pentecostals.

Where did I get my rule of thumb? (a) a well-known Charismatic Catholic priest serving multiple parishes (b) a sister and brother-in-law who were active in a traditional Azusa-street style Pentecostal denomination. Like most of us, my rule of thumb is a mix of theological knowledge and practical experience. Are you saying that the range of beliefs that the Pentecostal-Charismatic package intends to market to is broader than that of other packages?

Kendall Sholtess

It's just my opinion. Maybe I am wrong about that. I cobbled together my own library from a combination of Pentecostal, Wesleyan and Baptist works, with a smattering of other traditions.

MJ. Smith

The first wave of charismatics remained in their denominations, the new wave of charismatics which started in the late 1970s are independent. They are all over the board theologically, but most have gone a bit off of the traditional Pentecostal doctrines. I think the doctrinal statements of the Assemblies of God or the Foursquare denomination represent well what traditional Pentecostal doctrine is.

Okay, now I am really confused and obviously don't know this part of church history. When I think of the charismatics who broke away and founded their own churches I am thinking specifically of the Assemblies of God (circa 1914), Foursquare (1923), Church of God (1886) etc. When I think of the Charismatics who stayed within their church I think of the mainline Protestants and Catholics of the 1960's. Yes, I know there were a number of one minister churches then think Oral Roberts, Vineyard, or Calvary Chapel ... but I don't think of them as outside the normal raise and fall of denominations.

Your reference to Wesleyan works make me think Holiness movement ... and Wesleyan itself makes me think Pietist which brings me to the Apostolic Lutheran Church - the first church in this whole stream that I am confident I understand.

Can you give me a quick timeline or groups so I can see where I've gone astray?

Mark

I have always understood what is called the so called 3 waves of the Holy Spirit. The first wave being the Pentecostal wave beginning around 1900. This wave formed the basis of several Pentecostal groups. The second wave began around the 1960s and is known as the charismatic movement where Pentecostal doctrines jumped into some mainstream denominational churches, thus creating the Charismatic movement. The third wave began about 1980 with the teachings of men like Peter Wagner and John Wimber and is also known as the modern apostolic movement. These 3 waves are not the same, but are often referred to as waves in the sense that one wave affects another and those affects can blur the lines between the 3 waves.

Graham Owen

Pentecostal and Charismatic Base packages should be separated and distinguished from each other.

[Y]

Angela Meister

Some of these both conservative charismatics from across the body of Christ and traditional Pentecostals cringe at and have major concerns about. The most vocal does not mean the most sound.

Exegesis and grounding in the text as given by God are very important.

Angela Meister

Custom base packages would be awesome. If you could pick and choose sets of things, that would be lovely. Certain commentary sets are appealing. I would love to be able to chose from across the spectrum of these different packages and piece together something. I realize you can buy those sets independently, but budget wise it seems a bit deflating to pay for a bunch of things you don't/might not use to get something else at a discount or just enable the full features.

Most pastors are probably pleased to grab something from their camp, though, and keep it simple.

I see things in different packages that interest me, but the whole packages on most aren't so appealing. I am not in a hurry though.

Simon’s Brother

The primary question that needs to be asked is whether there is genuinely enough content currently in Logos to offer separate collections filled with relevant resources for each group ? If not then this is a mere a moot philosophical discussion, if the answer is yes then it's a question that can lead to an genuine outcome.

And if the answer is not then someone from each group needs to take up the baton and champion resources relevant to that group being added to Logos so it can move from a philosophical question to a practical outcome.

Pentecostal and Charismatic Base packages should be separated and distinguished from each other.

A Pentecostal Base Package should have something similar to the Wesleyan Base Package with additional works by strictly Pentecostal publishers. Other works that could be added are some from the Baptist stream. It is not appropriate to add works which stem from the independent Charismatic movement, such as C. Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, et al. Theologically and practically they are very different from Pentecostals.

A Charismatic Base package should include Baptist, Presbyterian, some Pentecostal works, Independent Charismatic works (Dutch Sheets et al). It should be much more varied denominationally than the Pentecostal Package is. Charismatic refers to non-Pentecostals from various denominations or independent movements who do not belong in the Pentecostal category. C Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, and many of the earlier such as J Rodman Williams.

In general, in my opinion, traditional Pentecostals would object to too much Independent Charismatic material in their base package. I believe that Faithlife needs to do more research on this. If their researcher is Charismatic, they may not fully understand the difference. The reason is not that Charismatics are ignorant, God forbid, that's not what I am saying. But Charismatics are far more open and accepting of novel ideas (e.g. Open Theism [C Peter Wagner, Harold Eberle], Calvinism [Sam Storms, Wayne Grudem]) than traditional Pentecostals.

Kendall Sholtess

I'd like to say on this whole subject that the new base packages have more Pentecostal content than before. I also see that Faithlife is making a big effort to serve traditional Pentecostals better. I am very thankful about that!

Daffy Meez

These two movements are very similar to each other. They have practically the same ideals and habits of glorifying holiness.

John Dorko

After reading this entire thread, I too wish the two were separated. I’m a Pentecostal, not a Charismatic. I personally won’t purchase and of the Logos packages for P&C simply because there are too many Charismatic books in the library that I won’t use at all, so purchasing one would be of no use to me. What I do is purchase the Logos Standard packages instead, and add books I want separately that are the Pentecostal based ones I want, that way I avoid the Charismatic books altogether. The only problem with doing it this way is that it gets awfully expensive this way.

Ken Shawver

John, agree with you. I have been using Logos since the Libronix days and have stayed with the Standard Packages and add books I want especially form the Pentecostal areas. The offerings are fairly week, unfortunately.

Jordan Nash

I also feel a little slighted by the overly broad term "Pentecostal & Charismatic".

I would prefer the term "Oneness Pentecostal".