Frustrated former Wordsearch Customer
Comments
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And guote me "there is no way one can buy a feature without buying some kind of package at the package price"...
You are correct that features are not available a la carte. One can purchase or rent features (plural) without resources, but one cannot purchase an individual feature. (Purchasing a feature without purchasing the supporting resources may be like purchasing a loaded car with an empty fuel tank)
Collective and individual language can set up unmet expectations.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
I have emailed a link to this post to Faithlife Senior Leadership. Hopefully we can get a comment. - https://www.logos.com/features/bible-browser-tool
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
Strange that you should write this because I just got this on an Email.
Perhaps you might like to refer to this when you make your next call?
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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That's bizarre. I'd be upset too. Just to make sure we're talking about the same tool, when I look at the Bronze package, it shows it has the "Bible Browser Tool". If that's what you're after, you can purchase the Bronze package and return it if it doesn't have the tool--you have 30 days. If you select the bronze feature upgrade package it should show you your dynamic price and it should be cheaper than the silver.I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages.. well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.
One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS... I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package.... INHO...
Thanks again for your comments.
Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
Here's the URL again I used from Floyd's post to get to the features upgrade page. https://www.logos.com/feature-upgrades
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Any existing Logos customer who wants to upgrade to Logos 9 can choose a feature-only upgrade.
An existing customer already has a "package" just not a new one and that maybe why they can buy feature only.
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Re: Feature upgrades
I still think that the combo of https://www.logos.com/product/195572/logos-9-academic-feature-upgrade and https://www.logos.com/product/168880/logos-8-basic is worth considering for bang for the buck. It would include the Bible Browser mentioned as well as a lot of other stuff for less than Bronze. The thing is that you technically will not own the RI's - and instead are getting them via a free rental which could, in theory, change.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Or Portuges Bronze ... skip the Portugese (or even learn it!). Brazilians get the good deals.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Logos usually waits and releases the free engine update after enough paid users upgrade so as not to have everyone slamming the Logos servers at once.
I might add that they wait to release the free engine until a few months after launch because their business model depends upon increased sales of packages every two years when the new version of Logos is released. This is not a criticism, but an observation in light of the comments expressed above about Logos being a business first. It makes good business sense. And, I am one of those customers who is happy to give Logos sales as I am able in order to keep them profitable.
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Logos usually waits and releases the free engine update after enough paid users upgrade so as not to have everyone slamming the Logos servers at once.
I might add that they wait to release the free engine until a few months after launch because their business model depends upon increased sales of packages every two years when the new version of Logos is released. This is not a criticism, but an observation in light of the comments expressed above about Logos being a business first. It makes good business sense. And, I am one of those customers who is happy to give Logos sales as I am able in order to keep them profitable.
True.
To answer the frustrated customer’s question about the Bible Browser. That was a pre-Logos 9 feature. Check to see if you already have it.
Also, I have two sales reps at Logos. Todd Cullop (my primary rep) and Fern Anderson (my rep that came over from Wordsearch who is now my backup rep when Todd is away). Call and ask for one of them, and they should be able to assist you. Both have always been upfront and honest with me about features/packages.
Dr. Nathan Parker
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I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages.. well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.
One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS... I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package.... INHO...
Thanks again for your comments.
Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
Could there be confusion between the Bible Browser tool (available in Bronze) and the Bible Books Explorer interactive (new to Logos 9, available in Silver)? Maybe that's what the salespeople are thinking you're referring to. But according to the feature comparison page, Bible Browser is in Bronze, and the new Bible Books Explorer is in Silver (it's also in the Academic Feature Upgrade, which is what I purchased since it was cheaper for me than Silver).
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I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages.. well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.
One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS... I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package.... INHO...
Thanks again for your comments.
Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
Hello xnman. My name is Brian, I work as the manager for our sales department here in the Bellingham office. I apologize for the confusion here. The others in this thread are correct in saying the Bible Browser tool is in the Bronze package. Whether there is confusion with the Bible Books Explorer or something misrepresenting this features location on an internal document, we have not communicated this correctly to you. I am sorry for that mistake.
Our sales team that works hard to serve our customers well and the WordSearch transition has been no different. It's been an honor to serve all of you over these last months in your transition to Logos. We're excited to have you part of the Faithlife family. But if we give wrong information, our hard work can't result in the service expectation we have set. I will be looking into this further to find out where the disconnect happened with the Bible Browser explanation. Providing you the best service possible is crucial, making sure the team is equipped do that is on me.
I will also be reaching out to you directly, so please keep an eye out for an email from me in the next few minutes.0 -
xnman, it looks like you found the help from Faithlife that you need and that Brian will be taking good care of you. I hope everyone's effort to assist you has helped to lessen the frustration you have experienced.I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages.. well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.
One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS... I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package.... INHO...
Thanks again for your comments.
Edit: So I called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package.... Them sales people seemed to stick together on that....
Hello xnman. My name is Brian, I work as the manager for our sales department here in the Bellingham office. I apologize for the confusion here. The others in this thread are correct in saying the Bible Browser tool is in the Bronze package. Whether there is confusion with the Bible Books Explorer or something misrepresenting this features location on an internal document, we have not communicated this correctly to you. I am sorry for that mistake.
Our sales team that works hard to serve our customers well and the WordSearch transition has been no different. It's been an honor to serve all of you over these last months in your transition to Logos. We're excited to have you part of the Faithlife family. But if we give wrong information, our hard work can't result in the service expectation we have set. I will be looking into this further to find out where the disconnect happened with the Bible Browser explanation. Providing you the best service possible is crucial, making sure the team is equipped do that is on me.
I will also be reaching out to you directly, so please keep an eye out for an email from me in the next few minutes.My first experience with Logos goes back to 2008... I think it was version 3. I also bought into some lesser expensive Bible software apps (Quick Verse and WORDsearch) about the same time. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough free time to make much use of any of the applications until about 2011. At that time I started comparing the Bible apps I had. My wallet voted loud and clear for WORDsearch, but the features available in Logos seemed more in line with the benefits I was hoping to get out of Bible Software. The features that finally pulled me firmly into the Logos software camp were the reverse interlinear Bibles and the ability to do searches and word studies based on Hebrew and Greek lemmas.
I did continue to upgrade my WORDsearch software and buy a few resources there (yes, the prices were very attractive), but I almost always found myself in/using Logos. I also found the Logos forum a wonderful place for help. The people here have always been fantastic.
I hope that as the months tic by you'll find your frustrations fading and the value of the software growing on you. And while the resources in Logos are more expensive than they were in WORDsearch, I hope you'll find the value from the way all the resource tagging is integrated into the software to prove worth the increased cost. But Faithlife does offer some excellent special sales throughout the year, and when combined with the resource discounts often available via Pre-Pub pricing, Community Pricing, and free monthly resources they offer, it can do a lot to mitigate the otherwise higher resource prices.
When combined with the fact that Faithlife upgrades you free of charge to the new application engine/interface for new versions of the software without you having to spend a dime (unless you want to purchase new features introduced in the new version), I think they do work hard to provide their customers with some great options to stay on the most current release of the software at little to no ongoing expense.
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I am humbled and impressed. I did not mean to cause so much problem. One thing is certain... Logos people answer problems!
My wife and I are sick and quarantined because of cvid-19 which has caused me to be slow to answer, but I do appreciate all the help.
Thanks to all
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Hope you're both well soon!I am humbled and impressed. I did not mean to cause so much problem. One thing is certain... Logos people answer problems!
My wife and I are sick and quarantined because of cvid-19 which has caused me to be slow to answer, but I do appreciate all the help.
Thanks to all
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Get well soon!
This may be a useful link for you as well:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/193917/1118044.aspx#1118044
Dr. Nathan Parker
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Indeed Logos is annoying, expensive, counter intuitive, and generally an indirect piece of software that takes several steps where one could suffice. However, it doesn't matter since the business model of the company is making money (I suppose) and its not going to change unless the ownership changes. In a way my best advice is to accept the world of bells, whistles, fancy charts, predigested pabulum databases, and settle down for the ride...if you can.
No offense Rene, but this cracks me, LOL. Is true Logos is not cheap, and has its particularities, but I imagine another viewpoint less fatist...
I wonder how many monks, and believers of the past would have been willing to exchange a lot, to get a tool such as Logos... Variety of resources available both from old and recent, in a wide variety of traditions and denominations, and with the ability to do proximity search that facilitates finding important information fast.
It is a dream come true, and available to us. If it was available to them I could picture them in my mind praying... God let me get ultimate, I want it to be able to search all and retain what is good... LOL.
And most likely through their earnest faith, they would have probably gotten it if it was available.
Like a History teacher of us, that wisely said: Kings and royalty of antiquity, only dreamed of moving the way we do driving the cars we have now. use the clothes we can use now, and have it so good as we have it now... [extremely rough paraphrase]...
We got his point, and started to appreciate more what we have available to us now.
Do not take it wrong, there are good and bad things, to be fair, we also have to list some of the good... Having a whole library of cool resources at your fingertips... is so incredible, just more discipline to schedule designated time to study more is needed to really get into awesome theological explorations.
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I TOTALLY AGREE. LOGOS is way to difficult. You have to spend too much time learning the navigation and going through so much to get what you want and need.
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I find Logos less difficult than MSWord, MSExcell . . . that is not to say that it doesn't take time and effort to learn, it is to say that when we want software to do exactly what we personally one (or sometimes ask it to read our minds) that software is going to be complex and have a learning curve closely related to which features we personally use.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Is true Logos is not cheap
Logos 9 + Logos Basic = ?
Logos 9 + Logos Essentials = ?
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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I recently bought a new car that has so many knobs and buttons and cubby holes that I finally had to read a thick set of manuals to figure out what they were. Then I kept finding yet more gadgets and surprises...courtesy lights turned on automatically at night when I approached with keys in my pocket. The car has its own braking system. It knows who unlocks the door and sets seats and steering wheel and mirrors to the key owner. The headlights ogle the direction I am turning. Plus about 1000 more things. I keep finding a new secret slide-out beverage holder, or a button that automatically makes back seats fold down. I keep thinking--how did the designers think of almost everything and get it so right! I may never discover it all!
For me, Logos is like that. It does so much, and every time I turn around, I discover something new it can do. So far, it hasn't occurred to me to be upset that I haven't mastered everything it can do. I just keep finding new joy in the discoveries.0 -
For me, Logos is like that.
[Y]
That is right. Thank's for your explanation.
But with that hightech-car you reach your destination in the town of your choice.With Logos you do not know whether your results are complete or well comprehensive. A fresh search with new knobs and buttons brings different results.
No matter the car, the goal remains the same.That is a big difference and I need in Logos an expert and a non-expert mode, for example. The latter with less knobs and buttons.
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Das Gerücht ist nicht immer falsch; manchmal wählt es sogar den Sieger aus.[Tacitus]0 -
I need in Logos an expert and a non-expert mode, for example. The latter with less knobs and buttons.
Like you can have in Papyrus Autor?
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Like you can have in Papyrus Autor?
Yes! Papyrus Author is great[Y]---
Das Gerücht ist nicht immer falsch; manchmal wählt es sogar den Sieger aus.[Tacitus]0 -
I am not a typical Logos / Faithlife user, though I have owned and used Logos Bible software for over 25 years now, I never upgrade my software for new features. Haven't been interested in any new features in Logos upgrades for years.
But I do upgrade my Logos software for book packages. Books are expensive in Logos, but books are expensive in paper format, too. I find the Logos versions are very competitive with paper copies, and the Logos versions are far more useful. I am thankful that Logos Bible Software has allowed me to build a wonderful Biblical library over the many years I have used it.
So I do not feel that I have overpaid for Logos Bible Software. I feel it has been a bargain.
I do understand the frustration of those who have been forced to switch from Wordsearch to Logos. Some years ago, after over a decade of using AmiPro Word processor, I was forced to switch to another. It was frustrating. I do think Logos is trying to be fair and helpful.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
That is a big difference and I need in Logos an expert and a non-expert mode, for example. The latter with less knobs and buttons.
Is it not possible to simply ignore knobs and buttons that one does not understand?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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in Logos an expert and a non-expert mode
Yes! I have been suggesting that for years.
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So I do not feel that I have overpaid for Logos Bible Software. I feel it has been a bargain.
[Y]
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in Logos an expert and a non-expert mode
Yes! I have been suggesting that for years.
I have a "type of this" - My primary Logos login is feature-rich and complex. I also have a separate account which is just the 'free' resources I have accumulated over time. This account does not have the advanced features. Caveat: I do use the 15+ years experience with the full collection to incorporate skills that I use with the lesser version.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Being an ex-programmer.... I can say for sure that the easier a program is to use generally means more knobs and buttons. I remember when Visacalc (one of the first spreadsheet programs) came out. Believe me, it was simple, easy to use and without many button and knobs. Then came Lotus and finally Excel. I don't think anyone wants to run Visacalc now even though it was easy to use. They will spend the time to learn how to do things in Excel.
The Bible is a complex book... to write a program that is without the knobs and buttons... is like going back to Visacalc. While learning how to use Logos takes a bit of time... in the long run... it's worth it. Just like learning Excel is worth it today.
Personally, I find the knobs and buttons helps ..... well.... after I learn to use them that is. lol
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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They will spend the time to learn how to do things in Excel.
Basically I agree with you.
There are parts of logos that I am often on the road and parts that I am less often. If I always have to go complex ways just to get an answer, I just get annoyed a lot. It shouldn't be like that.It would help if F1 and all related help were not scattered so disparately. Someone who is new to Logos is faced with a mountain of possibilities and just wanted to look for something in the Bible.
And if the past has already been addressed, I mourn my beloved Dbase and the times when we still had to calculate the excesses of a line break and the associated control character with a line ruler.[;)]---
Das Gerücht ist nicht immer falsch; manchmal wählt es sogar den Sieger aus.[Tacitus]0
