Interlinear questions...

I do NOT know Greek. I am attempting to learn how to pronounce the Greek words - and my mind keeps reverting to English pronunciations ...

However, in the process of my study I have come across something that I would like an answer to. When you select "interlinears" and select the first three items: Surface, Manuscript and Manuscript (transliterated) I see the following for 1Peter 1:14:

obedient

children

not

conform

the

evil

ὡς₁

ὑπακοῆς₃

τέκνα₂

►5

μὴ₄

συσχηματιζόμενοι₅

►12

ταῖς₆

ἐπιθυμίαις₁₂

hōs

hypakoēs

tekna

mē

syschēmatizomenoi

tais

epithymiais

desires

you

had

when

you

lived

ignorance

←

•

πρότερον₇

•

ὑμῶν₁₁

•

ἐν₈

τῇ₉ ἀγνοίᾳ₁₀

proteron

hymōn

tē agnoia

The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 1 Pe 1:14.

I would like to know the meaning of the subscript numbers 1,3,2,4,5, etc., and the inline numbers 5 and 12. It would also be interesting to know the meaning of the "dots" and "arrows" that are there...

Is there an article that would define the meaning of these numbers? Or, am I asking a question that is definitely more over my head than I should even be asking?

Thank you,
Dave \o/

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Comments

Andrew Batishko

The Reverse Interlinear Explorer resource in your library has an overview of the interlinear rows.

The dot mean that there is no equivalent word in the original language text.

The number indicates the order of the words in the original language text.

The arrows without numbers indicate the word is part of the translation of the adjacent original language word.

The arrows with numbers indicate the word is part of the translation of a non-adjacent original language word, and the number refers to the word order number.

David B. Turnidge

FANTASTIC!!! I think I even understood that!!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I am attempting to learn how to pronounce the Greek words

Helpful for pronouncing Greek words is learning vowel dipthongs: two vowels sounded as one.

hypakoēs has four syllables: hy - pa - ko - ēs

agnoia has three syllables: ag - noi - a

Greek Word ἀγνοίᾳ has a dipthong οί and a silent iota subscript ᾳ

Keep Smiling [:)]

David B. Turnidge

Wow! I was raised on the KJV and use other versions - mostly because I have to (church policy).

I have been studying 1Peter and have said many times that the folks being written to were "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father".

Using other versions I saw this:

1 Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,

2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 1 Pe 1:1–2.

...where the word "elect" is placed AWAY from the word "foreknowledge". My thought process was that the new versions were translated by those who didn't believe in election by foreknowledge and wanted to get the word "elect" as far away from foreknowledge as possible. and then...

1 Pe 1:1

Peter

apostle

Jesus

Christ

Πέτρος₁

→

ἀπόστολος₂

→

Ἰησοῦ₃

Χριστοῦ₄

Petros

apostolos

Iēsou

Christou

God’s

elect

exiles

scattered

throughout

the

provinces

►5

•

ἐκλεκτοῖς₅

παρεπιδήμοις₆

διασπορᾶς₇

←

•

eklektois

parepidēmois

diasporas

Pontus

Galatia

Cappadocia

Asia

and

Bithynia

•

Πόντου₈

Γαλατίας₉

Καππαδοκίας₁₀

Ἀσίας₁₁

καὶ₁₂

Βιθυνίας₁₃

Pontou

Galatias

Kappadokias

Asias

kai

Bithynias

The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), 1 Pe 1:1.

I see that "elect" is in the CORRECT position in the NIV and others...and the (N)KJV:

1 Pe 1:1

Peter

apostle

Jesus

Christ

Πέτρος₁

→

ἀπόστολος₂

→

Ἰησοῦ₃

Χριστοῦ₄

Petros

apostolos

Iēsou

Christou

the

pilgrims

the

Dispersion

Pontus

Galatia

Cappadocia

→

παρεπιδήμοις₆

→

διασπορᾶς₇

→

Πόντου₈

Γαλατίας₉

Καππαδοκίας₁₀

parepidēmois

diasporas

Pontou

Galatias

Kappadokias

Asia	,	and	Bithynia	,
Ἀσίας₁₁		καὶ₁₂	Βιθυνίας₁₃
Asias		kai	Bithynias

elect

according

the

foreknowledge

God

the

Father

ἐκλεκτοῖς₅

κατὰ₁₄

←

→

πρόγνωσιν₁₅

→

Θεοῦ₁₆

→

πατρός₁₇

eklektois

kata

prognōsin

Theou

patros

sanctification

the

Spirit

for

obedience

and

sprinkling

ἐν₁₈

ἁγιασμῷ₁₉

→

Πνεύματος₂₀

εἰς₂₁

ὑπακοὴν₂₂

καὶ₂₃

ῥαντισμὸν₂₄

hagiasmō

Pneumatos

eis

hypakoēn

kai

rhantismon

the

blood

Jesus

Christ

→

αἵματος₂₅

→

Ἰησοῦ₂₆

Χριστοῦ₂₇

haimatos

Iēsou

Christou

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 1 Pe 1:1–2.

...has it out of order.

So, I had my "high-horse" kicked out from under me. I think this is going to change my thinking about, probably, many things...

Dave \o/

David Thomas

I see that "elect" is in the CORRECT position

Word order in Koine is less important because of clause formation with case and number, but have you noticed the little numbers next to the Greek words? The (yellow highlight) "5" indicates that it is the 5th word of the Greek verse. You may notice it is placed in NIV between the 13th and 14th (blue highlight) words of the Greek. A student must ask himself how the 5th word belongs between the 13th and 14th unless there may be some theological reason to do so.

I am NOT stating what I believe is "correct" or "wrong", just raising a question [and showing how the word order indicators in Logos RI can contribute to understanding].

David B. Turnidge

You are highlighting the NKJV, not the NIV...

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

The NIV and NKJV have Reverse Interlinear alignment that preserves English word order while trying to show translation of Koine Greek (with numeric subscripts showing word order differences).

An alternative to consider is The Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek (Newberry Interlinear) that has Textus Receptus Koine Greek used by KJV translators (with caution that reading English literal translation is NOT reading Koine Greek - English usually does not show grammatical usage in word spelling while Koine Greek does, which allows Koine Greek words to be rearranged for discourse emphasis - also Koine Greek verbal system is more expressive than English: primary kind of action with secondary time of action)

Πετρος		αποστολος		Ιησου		Χριστου		εκλεκτοις		παρεπιδημοις
Peter,		apostle		of Jesus		Christ,		to [the] elect		sojourners

διασπορας

Ποντου

Γαλατιας

Καππαδοκιας

Ασιας

και

Βιθυνιας

of [the] dispersion

of Pontus,

of Galatia,

of Cappadocia,

of Asia,

and

Bithynia,

κατα

προγνωσιν

Θεου

πατρος

εν

αγιασμω

Πνευματος

εις

according to

[the] foreknowledge

of God

[the] Father,

sanctification

of [the] Spirit,

unto

υπακοην

και

ραντισμον

αιματος

Ιησου

Χριστου

χαρις

υμιν

και

[the] obedience

and

sprinkling

of [the] blood

of Jesus

Christ:

Grace

to you

and

ειρηνη		πληθυνθειη
peace		be multiplied.

Thomas Newberry and George Ricker Berry, The Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2004), 1 Pe 1:1–2.

Chapter and verse numbering have a number of alignment issues. For example, 1 Peter 1:1-2 is one Koine Greek sentence. The Lexham English Bible has sentence periods that correspond to original sentences: e.g. Ephesians 1:3-14 is one long sentence.

Keep Smiling [:)]

David B. Turnidge

Scary... [A]

MJ. Smith

I see that "elect" is in the CORRECT position in the NIV and others...and the (N)KJV:

Why do you assume that the order in Greek which depends on declensions and conjugations to show relationships should be the same as English which uses word order to show relationships? Correctness depends on semantics - does it mean the same thing?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Syntax graphs visually show Koine Greek clauses. Caveat: different scholars have different opinions about Greek clause boundaries: e.g. is 1 Peter 1:1-2 one sentence OR two ? (the last five Koine Greek words of 1 Peter 1:2 are a complete thought, which has the verb placed at the end of the sentence for emphasis)

Cascadia Greek Syntax Collection: Graphs and Datasets

The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament

Keep Smiling [:)]

David B. Turnidge

The only thing I assume...is ignorance. And with some of the fantastic replies that I have received - maybe I'm not so sad that I didn't take Greek...