MacOS Ventura

I have installed MacOS Ventura (MacOS 13.0 22A5266r) on my MacBook Air M1. I am pleased to say that Logos 9.14.0.0022 opens and appears to function normally.

As always, we can't expect Logos to make any statements or promises about MacOS Ventura until its full release in the fall. If the past is any indication, Logos will not even say they WILL support Ventura until its full release. This is important, too, especially if you have never installed beta system software: Logos will not provide formal tech support for unsupported systems. Thankfully the forums carry the majority of that load for most of us.

For the record, my MacBook Air is not my primary computer (that's a MacBook Pro M1). I won't install Ventura on my main computer until I am confident that Logos and Proclaim will function normally. I recognize the risk of using beta software and am fully prepared to take the time to downgrade if it becomes necessary.

I will finish sermon preparation today on the MacBook Air and report any issues I encounter. And I'm happy to answer questions about Ventura.

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Comments

Tommy Staggs

Thank you for the update on your experience, Gregory! I haven't made the jump to Ventura yet on my MBP, but I have updated to iOS 16 on my iPad and iPhone and have found that Logos is performing normally so far. If you notice anything further, let us know. Again, I appreciate your update. Very helpful!

John Goodman

we can't expect Logos to make any statements or promises about MacOS Ventura until its full release in the fall. If the past is any indication, Logos will not even say they WILL support Ventura until its full release.

I understand their policy: as some,ne who purchased a 'lifetime licence' for the now defunct Sente Reference manager which was brilliant. Apple did a deal with Endnote and killed it. Until Faithlife knows what a new OS release is, they can't announce support.

That said, they will, they always do. It's a when, not if question. So far the answer is always soon after Apple release it;)

Gregory Lawhorn

I've spent a lot of time the past day with Logos, Proclaim, and MacOS Ventura. Ventura is probably the most stable MacOS beta I've ever used, especially at this stage of release. Logos has worked flawlessly; so has Proclaim. I've already installed it on my primary computer. If issues arise I'll certain mention them, but at this point I don't expect any problems.

Rob Bruce

I have had the same experience with Ventura on my Mac mini.

Gregory Lawhorn

Just a quick update. Ventura continues to be a very stable OS. There are a couple of minor system issues that are not uncommon in betas (for instance, repeating keys, such as using the arrows to quickly move the cursor, tends to be jumpy). But overall I've had no issues. Logos and Proclaim have worked without an issue. It did disable my ability to use a Sony camera as a web cam, but I've come up with a workaround for that.

David McClister

After using PCs exclusively, I will be making the switch to a Macbook Pro with the M1 chip in a few weeks. I'm asking for some help and answers. I apologize in advance if I don't have the Mac lingo down.

Here is my assumption (please correct if this is wrong): Current users of Logos who use Macs are actually running the PC version of Logos on their Macs, and Rosetta 2 is handling it. But Logos says that a Mac-specific version of Logos is coming out later this year (because Apple is heading away from Rosetta, and Macs will need their own versions of software programs in the not-too-distant future because of the difference in Apple's chips). Is any of this correct?

1. I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?

2. The big question: If I install the current version of Logos on my new Mac, and then the Apple native silicon version of Logos comes out (maybe October?), will I have problems uninstalling the old Logos and installing the new OS version of Logos? I don't want to gum up a brand new computer! I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?). Should I just wait until Logos 10 (with the OS-specific version) comes out to install Logos on my new Mac?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Gregory Lawhorn

Current users of Logos who use Macs are actually running the PC version of Logos on their Macs, and Rosetta 2 is handling it.

No, there is a Mac version of Logos. It is compiled for the Intel chip family, however. What we're waiting on is a native Apple M1 version of Logos. Rosetta functions as you say.

But Logos says that a Mac-specific version of Logos is coming out later this year (because Apple is heading away from Rosetta, and Macs will need their own versions of software programs in the not-too-distant future because of the difference in Apple's chips.

Partly. Macs have always used Mac-native software. Rosetta is not necessary for Intel Macs. The issue is not that Rosetta is being discontinued, but that Rosetta allows M1 Macs to run Intel-native software.

I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?

Correct.

If I install the current version of Logos on my new Mac, and then the Apple native silicon version of Logos comes out (maybe October?), will I have problems uninstalling the old Logos and installing the new OS version of Logos?

In all likelihood, it won't be necessary to uninstall and reinstall Logos. I imagine it would handle the update just fine.

I don't want to gum up a brand new computer!

I think you'll be surprised at how robust the Mac OS is. It's pretty hard to gum it up!

I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?)

That's not correct. Most programs don't need an uninstaller; you can just throw it away. That being said, preference files and such will remain behind. I use a utility called CleanMyMac to deal with that sort of stuff.

Should I just wait until Logos 10 (with the OS-specific version) comes out to install Logos on my new Mac?

That's not necessary. Logos runs beautifully on my M1 MacBook Pro and M1 MacBook Air both. I don't know if you've seen the video I did eighteen months ago when I got my M1 Air. https://youtu.be/_p8wtfzRzfs I compare it to a top of the line MacBook Pro that I've since replaced.

Hope this helps!

David Wanat

I switched back to PC back in 2020. But I do remember always dreading a new MacOS update and wondering if it would break Verbum (it did, but thankfully only once during my time using it)

Mike Binks

Just to expand a little...

I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?

Correct.

Windows think is 'don't upgrade until the wrinkles are sorted' hence there are a lot of Windows users on legacy OS' making maintenance a nightmare.

Apple think is grab the latest upgrade asap hence within a couple of weeks a huge proportion of machines are running the latest OS and the first question any support person asks is 'are you on the latest version'. Maintenance is easier on a level playing field.

I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?)

That's not correct. Most programs don't need an uninstaller; you can just throw it away. That being said, preference files and such will remain behind. I use a utility called CleanMyMac to deal with that sort of stuff.

However look up the concept of 'Sandboxing' which is how MacOS deals with programs - hence although snippets of code may be left in specialist libraries when you bin a program they won't take up a significant amount of storage until the machine is about 25 years old. One doesn't tend to uninstall software a new version just overwrites the old one.

A lot of the 'maintenance' stuff you used to have to keep unto date on your windows machine will be redundant when you move to your Mac. Just be ready to change your mindset.

David McClister

Thanks Gregory, David, and Mike for the helpful responses!

Brent Carlson

Rosetta 2 probably won't be for long. Most Mac developers expect Apple to kill of Rosetta 2 around 2025-2027 time frame. It all depends on how soon Apple releases its final M series Arm Chip based MacPro systems as those are the only remaining systems still being configured with Intel processors. With the introduction of the M2, it is expected by 2023 that the Intel to Apple Silicon transition will be complete.

Most Mac apps don't use an installer with the exception of Adobe and Microsoft apps. Most are installed by dragging a app package from a disk image to the applications folder.

As Gregory mentioned, you can delete apps simply by dragging to the trash and emptying....might require password confirmation or fingerprint authentication. Preferences and such can be deleted manually or by command line. Some folks use the utility that Gregory mentions.

Duane Garrett

I am really astonished and disappointed that it is taking Logos so long to come out with a Universal or Apple Silicon version of the application. Logos is still a Windows app with a port to Mac, and it shows.

Ken Magnus

Over the weekend, I upgraded my iMac (27") to Ventura 13.4.

While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally, for the most part, I still have a notification indicating "Installing application update..."

I've restarted my iMac and Logos 9 no less than 10 times since doing the upgrade, and still have the "Installing application update..." notification.

I'm not going to pursue workaround to see if I can get the notification to clear until I review additional observations others make.

Kiyah

Over the weekend, I upgraded my iMac (27") to Ventura 13.4.

While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally, for the most part, I still have a notification indicating "Installing application update..."

I've restarted my iMac and Logos 9 no less than 10 times since doing the upgrade, and still have the "Installing application update..." notification.

I'm not going to pursue workaround to see if I can get the notification to clear until I review additional observations others make.

I recommend updating with the Logos Free Edition. If your software didn't update automatically back in February then you may have to do a clean install of the Free Edition. That will update your software to the latest supported version.

How long did you allow the "installing application update" notification to show before you restarted? It may be trying to install the free update for you but you're not letting it complete.

Ken Magnus

I've left it running overnight. It's updated just fine until I upgraded to Ventura 13.4 over the weekend. I'm going to give it a couple of weeks and if it persists, I'll delete and reinstall.

JT (alabama24)

While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally

Why have you not kept your Logos up to date? The current version is 26.0. See link here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/216682.aspx

Kiyah

I'm going to give it a couple of weeks

Weeks?! If you left it overnight there's something wrong and it's not going to fix itself. I would recommend you go ahead and reinstall at your earliest convenience. And as a Mac user you'll probably prefer the latest version (v26.0), it runs much faster on Macs than L9.

Ken Magnus

I run Logos for Mac

JT (alabama24)

I run Logos for Mac

Great! So do I.

The software has always been free... You pay for new resources and some new features. The current version is 26.0.

Logos went from L9 engine to L10 to a completely different schema so that users don't (wrongfully) associate base package purchases (i.e. "L10") with software updates. You have had the ability to update to the L10 engine free of cost for quite a while, but the new numbering will be new numbers every 6 weeks or so (27 will be out after a bit, followed by 28 six weeks later).

Ken Magnus

Again, I update the software whenever it shows there are updates to install.

Kiyah

Again, I update the software whenever it shows there are updates to install.

It seems like you updated your operating system to a version that can run Logos 10, so it's trying to automatically update your Logos to the latest version, but something has gone wrong. That's why I recommend you do a clean install. I understand if you don't want to go through the ordeal right away. But you'll need to do it at some point to fix the problem. The good things is, you don't have to pay for the update to the engine. But if you do decide the buy L10, you will still have to do a clean install to make this "updating..." issue go away. So whether you pay for an L10 package or you install the free version, you will still need to do a clean install at some point.

You could call or email customer service and see if they have another solution. I don't usually find customer service to be very helpful though.

I looked and didn't see your problem discussed on the support website. Seems like you may need to do a clean reinstall.

JT (alabama24)

Again, I update the software whenever it shows there are updates to install.

Not all software works that way... but FL has made a change so that it should moving forward.

It <used> to be that when users jumped to a big number release (i.e. 7 to 8 to 9 to 10), you had to "purchase" the software (for free). FL has found that this is confusing for many users who don't realize there is an update to be had. To eliminate this problem moving forward, they have 1) eliminated the need to make these new "purchases" once they are up to date with the new software and 2) changed the versioning numbers to disassociate the software engine (currently 26) from the Libraries / Base Packages / Features (currently "Logos 10").

In your case, 9.17 <should> be updating you to version 26, but something has gone wrong. The fix is likely to manually install the update. This will be for the macOS 13.4 computer only. If you have other computers, you should check with us and provide details to see what you can and should be doing.

For the record, here is the announcement in the forums about the change: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/212345.aspx

Emmanuel GM Kollie

i want to install Logos on my MacOS 13.2.1 Ventura. it tells me that the logos is not competible with the version. What do I do?

Emmanuel GM Kollie

What do I do to have my MacOS Ventura (MacOS 13.2.1) compatible with Logos Bible Apps

JT (alabama24)

Welcome! [:)] Sorry you are having troubles. [:s]

Logos is certainly compatible with Ventura, but you are out of date on your current build. The current version of Ventura is 13.4.1, although there is a rapid security update which I have not yet installed.

I would start by updating macOS. If you have troubles after doing so, please report back.

Dave Hooton

What do I do to have my MacOS Ventura (MacOS 13.2.1) compatible with Logos Bible Apps

What version of Logos are you trying to install?

Mike Binks

What do I do to have my MacOS Ventura (MacOS 13.2.1) compatible with Logos Bible Apps

Make sure you have downloaded the correct version of Logos. Either 'Intel' or 'Apple Silicon'.