MacOS Ventura
I have installed MacOS Ventura (MacOS 13.0 22A5266r) on my MacBook Air M1. I am pleased to say that Logos 9.14.0.0022 opens and appears to function normally.
As always, we can't expect Logos to make any statements or promises about MacOS Ventura until its full release in the fall. If the past is any indication, Logos will not even say they WILL support Ventura until its full release. This is important, too, especially if you have never installed beta system software: Logos will not provide formal tech support for unsupported systems. Thankfully the forums carry the majority of that load for most of us.
For the record, my MacBook Air is not my primary computer (that's a MacBook Pro M1). I won't install Ventura on my main computer until I am confident that Logos and Proclaim will function normally. I recognize the risk of using beta software and am fully prepared to take the time to downgrade if it becomes necessary.
I will finish sermon preparation today on the MacBook Air and report any issues I encounter. And I'm happy to answer questions about Ventura.
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Thank you for the update on your experience, Gregory! I haven't made the jump to Ventura yet on my MBP, but I have updated to iOS 16 on my iPad and iPhone and have found that Logos is performing normally so far. If you notice anything further, let us know. Again, I appreciate your update. Very helpful!
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we can't expect Logos to make any statements or promises about MacOS Ventura until its full release in the fall. If the past is any indication, Logos will not even say they WILL support Ventura until its full release.
I understand their policy: as some,ne who purchased a 'lifetime licence' for the now defunct Sente Reference manager which was brilliant. Apple did a deal with Endnote and killed it. Until Faithlife knows what a new OS release is, they can't announce support.
That said, they will, they always do. It's a when, not if question. So far the answer is always soon after Apple release it;)
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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I've spent a lot of time the past day with Logos, Proclaim, and MacOS Ventura. Ventura is probably the most stable MacOS beta I've ever used, especially at this stage of release. Logos has worked flawlessly; so has Proclaim. I've already installed it on my primary computer. If issues arise I'll certain mention them, but at this point I don't expect any problems.
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I have had the same experience with Ventura on my Mac mini.
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Just a quick update. Ventura continues to be a very stable OS. There are a couple of minor system issues that are not uncommon in betas (for instance, repeating keys, such as using the arrows to quickly move the cursor, tends to be jumpy). But overall I've had no issues. Logos and Proclaim have worked without an issue. It did disable my ability to use a Sony camera as a web cam, but I've come up with a workaround for that.
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After using PCs exclusively, I will be making the switch to a Macbook Pro with the M1 chip in a few weeks. I'm asking for some help and answers. I apologize in advance if I don't have the Mac lingo down.
Here is my assumption (please correct if this is wrong): Current users of Logos who use Macs are actually running the PC version of Logos on their Macs, and Rosetta 2 is handling it. But Logos says that a Mac-specific version of Logos is coming out later this year (because Apple is heading away from Rosetta, and Macs will need their own versions of software programs in the not-too-distant future because of the difference in Apple's chips). Is any of this correct?
1. I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?
2. The big question: If I install the current version of Logos on my new Mac, and then the Apple native silicon version of Logos comes out (maybe October?), will I have problems uninstalling the old Logos and installing the new OS version of Logos? I don't want to gum up a brand new computer! I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?). Should I just wait until Logos 10 (with the OS-specific version) comes out to install Logos on my new Mac?
Thanks in advance for your help!
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Current users of Logos who use Macs are actually running the PC version of Logos on their Macs, and Rosetta 2 is handling it.
No, there is a Mac version of Logos. It is compiled for the Intel chip family, however. What we're waiting on is a native Apple M1 version of Logos. Rosetta functions as you say.
But Logos says that a Mac-specific version of Logos is coming out later this year (because Apple is heading away from Rosetta, and Macs will need their own versions of software programs in the not-too-distant future because of the difference in Apple's chips.
Partly. Macs have always used Mac-native software. Rosetta is not necessary for Intel Macs. The issue is not that Rosetta is being discontinued, but that Rosetta allows M1 Macs to run Intel-native software.
I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?
Correct.
If I install the current version of Logos on my new Mac, and then the Apple native silicon version of Logos comes out (maybe October?), will I have problems uninstalling the old Logos and installing the new OS version of Logos?
In all likelihood, it won't be necessary to uninstall and reinstall Logos. I imagine it would handle the update just fine.
I don't want to gum up a brand new computer!
I think you'll be surprised at how robust the Mac OS is. It's pretty hard to gum it up!
I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?)
That's not correct. Most programs don't need an uninstaller; you can just throw it away. That being said, preference files and such will remain behind. I use a utility called CleanMyMac to deal with that sort of stuff.
Should I just wait until Logos 10 (with the OS-specific version) comes out to install Logos on my new Mac?
That's not necessary. Logos runs beautifully on my M1 MacBook Pro and M1 MacBook Air both. I don't know if you've seen the video I did eighteen months ago when I got my M1 Air. https://youtu.be/_p8wtfzRzfs I compare it to a top of the line MacBook Pro that I've since replaced.
Hope this helps!
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I switched back to PC back in 2020. But I do remember always dreading a new MacOS update and wondering if it would break Verbum (it did, but thankfully only once during my time using it)
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Just to expand a little...
I am assuming my Mac will arrive with the Monterey OS, not the Ventura. Correct?
Correct.
Windows think is 'don't upgrade until the wrinkles are sorted' hence there are a lot of Windows users on legacy OS' making maintenance a nightmare.
Apple think is grab the latest upgrade asap hence within a couple of weeks a huge proportion of machines are running the latest OS and the first question any support person asks is 'are you on the latest version'. Maintenance is easier on a level playing field.
I've been told that Macs don't do uninstalls well (is that correct?)
That's not correct. Most programs don't need an uninstaller; you can just throw it away. That being said, preference files and such will remain behind. I use a utility called CleanMyMac to deal with that sort of stuff.
However look up the concept of 'Sandboxing' which is how MacOS deals with programs - hence although snippets of code may be left in specialist libraries when you bin a program they won't take up a significant amount of storage until the machine is about 25 years old. One doesn't tend to uninstall software a new version just overwrites the old one.
A lot of the 'maintenance' stuff you used to have to keep unto date on your windows machine will be redundant when you move to your Mac. Just be ready to change your mindset.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Thanks Gregory, David, and Mike for the helpful responses!
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Rosetta 2 probably won't be for long. Most Mac developers expect Apple to kill of Rosetta 2 around 2025-2027 time frame. It all depends on how soon Apple releases its final M series Arm Chip based MacPro systems as those are the only remaining systems still being configured with Intel processors. With the introduction of the M2, it is expected by 2023 that the Intel to Apple Silicon transition will be complete.
Most Mac apps don't use an installer with the exception of Adobe and Microsoft apps. Most are installed by dragging a app package from a disk image to the applications folder.
As Gregory mentioned, you can delete apps simply by dragging to the trash and emptying....might require password confirmation or fingerprint authentication. Preferences and such can be deleted manually or by command line. Some folks use the utility that Gregory mentions.
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I am really astonished and disappointed that it is taking Logos so long to come out with a Universal or Apple Silicon version of the application. Logos is still a Windows app with a port to Mac, and it shows.
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I am really astonished and disappointed that it is taking Logos so long to come out with a Universal or Apple Silicon version of the application.
FL has commented that it will be coming "later this year"
I'm running our native ARM Mac build. We're expecting to release it later this year.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196433/1209839.aspx#1209839
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Considering that the people at FL were telling us, back when the M1 Mac debuted, that getting a Universal or Apple Silicon Logos desktop app would be a huge undertaking, the news that it may be available later this year is great. As far as I know, other Bible software apps (Accordance, Olive Tree, etc.) do not yet have a Universal app. Kudos to FL if you can pull this off!
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Mark,
Accordance is now universal build: https://accordancebible.com/accordance-13-2/. However, I don't think Olive Tree is; and I know the others such as XSword and etc are not and probably won't be either.
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Thanks for the update re: Accordance. When I last checked their website, the universal app was not yet available.
I have the macOS Ventura beta running on my M1 MacBook Air. Logos/Verbum runs fine on it. Rosetta 2 won't be with us forever, so it's great news to see FL have a universal app in the works.
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I predict support of Apple Silicon will be tied to Logos 10 which would be rather crummy.
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I predict support of Apple Silicon will be tied to Logos 10 which would be rather crummy.
Why would it be crummy -- L10 will offer a free upgrade just as other updates have. There is usually a short wait for the free upgrade to be released but ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Accordance has been native for awhile.
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Crummy in that it would be the only Mac software I own that would require upgrading to new version for native support. Already Logos is one of the last, if not the last software I own that hasn't already supported it. I know the upgrade will be free many months (is it a year?) after they release a upgrade but I consider that crummy as well. Just my opinion of course. Great software and I love it but updating to support latest platform architecture should be release not tied to new features, functionality or cost which is how it is being handled by every other software company.
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Crummy in that it would be the only Mac software I own that would require upgrading to new version for native support. Already Logos is one of the last, if not the last software I own that hasn't already supported it. I know the upgrade will be free many months (is it a year?) after they release a upgrade but I consider that crummy as well. Just my opinion of course. Great software and I love it but updating to support latest platform architecture should be release not tied to new features, functionality or cost which is how it is being handled by every other software company.
Since the engine is free, there is no real difference in making you update to a future build of 9.xx or a new one of 10.xx to receive the update. Either way, you will have to download and install an update. “The same as every other software company.”
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Ah, so day one that Logos 10 comes out I can get the free Logos 10 engine update?
That's awesome! I was under impression there was a waiting period.
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so day one that Logos 10 comes out I can get the free Logos 10 engine update?
No, there is usually a short ~3 month lag before the free engine becomes available.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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No, there is usually a short ~3 month lag before the free engine becomes available.
Unless you are a Logos Now Faithlife Connect subscriber.
Which you might find an attractive option for a few months as it will give you a chance to try out some features.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Over the weekend, I upgraded my iMac (27") to Ventura 13.4.
While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally, for the most part, I still have a notification indicating "Installing application update..."
I've restarted my iMac and Logos 9 no less than 10 times since doing the upgrade, and still have the "Installing application update..." notification.
I'm not going to pursue workaround to see if I can get the notification to clear until I review additional observations others make.
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Over the weekend, I upgraded my iMac (27") to Ventura 13.4.
While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally, for the most part, I still have a notification indicating "Installing application update..."
I've restarted my iMac and Logos 9 no less than 10 times since doing the upgrade, and still have the "Installing application update..." notification.
I'm not going to pursue workaround to see if I can get the notification to clear until I review additional observations others make.
I recommend updating with the Logos Free Edition. If your software didn't update automatically back in February then you may have to do a clean install of the Free Edition. That will update your software to the latest supported version.
How long did you allow the "installing application update" notification to show before you restarted? It may be trying to install the free update for you but you're not letting it complete.
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I've left it running overnight. It's updated just fine until I upgraded to Ventura 13.4 over the weekend. I'm going to give it a couple of weeks and if it persists, I'll delete and reinstall.
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While Logos 9.17.0.0020 opens and appears to function normally
Why have you not kept your Logos up to date? The current version is 26.0. See link here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/216682.aspx
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I'm going to give it a couple of weeks
Weeks?! If you left it overnight there's something wrong and it's not going to fix itself. I would recommend you go ahead and reinstall at your earliest convenience. And as a Mac user you'll probably prefer the latest version (v26.0), it runs much faster on Macs than L9.
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