I have Word 2007 on Windows 7 64Bit, I followed the setup from the Wiki article, but they still don't work. Are there any issues with 64Bit OS? Does anyone have them working on 64Bit Windows 7 with Word 2007?
Bradley, I tried this too, and I have the same error messages in my SmartTag.log file: 5265.SmartTag.log
OK, so much for that theory. It's maybe a typelib registration error... or... something else. I'll take a look and see what might be wrong.
Bradley, Does the Word SmartTags DLL use the COM API to interact with Logos4, or some other methods? If via the COM API, maybe a tiny stand-alone app (outside of Word), that connects to Logos4, and attempts to access John 3:16 etc, might help determine failings such as above? Clearly, if the COM API can't talk, any kinds of messing around with settings, macros, or otherwise of Word will change nothing. (And if SmartTags is NOT using the COM API, then nothing I've said here is very useful.) A little related: Is the limit against SmartTags in Word-64bits, a limit on Word-64 using a 32-bit DLL, rather than some limit in COM API or Logos4 itself? [Off Topic of SmartTags: And if you are still reading: Would a 64-bit build of Logos4 and/or the SQL subsystem deliver any useful performance gains?]
Bradley,
Does the Word SmartTags DLL use the COM API to interact with Logos4, or some other methods?
If via the COM API, maybe a tiny stand-alone app (outside of Word), that connects to Logos4, and attempts to access John 3:16 etc, might help determine failings such as above?
Clearly, if the COM API can't talk, any kinds of messing around with settings, macros, or otherwise of Word will change nothing.
(And if SmartTags is NOT using the COM API, then nothing I've said here is very useful.)
A little related: Is the limit against SmartTags in Word-64bits, a limit on Word-64 using a 32-bit DLL, rather than some limit in COM API or Logos4 itself?
[Off Topic of SmartTags: And if you are still reading: Would a 64-bit build of Logos4 and/or the SQL subsystem deliver any useful performance gains?]
The Word Smart Tags DLL implements all its functionality by calling the Logos 4 COM API. (This is why Logos 4 must already be running; we felt it would be rude to start Logos 4 in the background whenever you open Word.)
Creating a test program is a good idea. It would probably return the same error codes as the Smart Tag addin (that's loaded in Word), but an additional source of data would still be useful.
The restriction on smart tags in 64-bit Office is an OS limitation: a 64-bit process is unable to load a 32-bit DLL. If we created a separate 64-bit Smart Tag DLL, we could support 64-bit Office, but it would complicate the installer for a rare situation (64-bit Offfice is not installed by default, and Microsoft recommends against it).
A 64-bit build of Logos 4 would probably eliminate Out of Memory Exceptions because it would increase the available address space from 2GB to 16TB. (Even if you have 32GB of RAM, Logos 4 is limited to 2GB due to the limitations of 32-bit processes, and the actual limit is closer to 1GB due to the overhead of .NET and other DLLs that are loaded.) However, allowing the application to use an (effectively) unlimited amount of memory isn't necessarily a good idea; on most systems it could cause a huge amount of paging, which would drastically slow down the application. Additionally, slowly leaking memory would slow down each .NET garbage collection, causing the application to run slower and slower over time. Sticking with a 32-bit process is probably better because it requires us to keep our long-term memory usage low, leading to an overall better application.
Furthermore, in a 64-bit process, each pointer (or reference, in .NET) is 64 bits, rather than 32, which (simplistically) doubles the memory usage of the application. The 32-bit process might run just fine on a computer with 2GB of RAM, but the 64-bit process could require 3-4GB just to achieve the same performance. This may not be a big concern once all new desktop computers are shipping with 8GB+ of RAM, but it's still an issue right now.
It's not clear that running a 64-bit process delivers obvious immediate performance gains. In some cases, loading and processing 32-bit data incurs a performance penalty.
Finally, it complicates the installer (and doubles the download size!) to deliver both 32-bit and 64-bit builds of the application. We may consider it again in future, but right now, delivering a single 32-bit build of the application seems like the optimal approach.
The Word Smart Tags DLL implements all its functionality by calling the Logos 4 COM API. (This is why Logos 4 must already be running; we felt it would be rude to start Logos 4 in the background whenever you open Word.) Creating a test program is a good idea. It would probably return the same error codes as the Smart Tag addin (that's loaded in Word), but an additional source of data would still be useful.
Thanks for the feedback and answers.
I would knock up a quick COM API stub myself, but I wont have time until after Friday due to work demands. I expect someone there could knock out the few lines required in VC# or VB. It only needs a single button and a text box. Attempt to make an app object to the COM API and pull back the version number and the text to John 3:16 or something. It will be interesting if it would then work for Rosie. If yes, look into Word issues. If not, maybe Reflection and manually loading the DLL would give you more complete error reporting than calling it "directly". I expect you have all the good debugging toys and goodies there.
Re the possible 64-bit build of Logos4: This sounds like a task to give one of the interns to explore. Rather than add it into the main installer, make a 64bit one as a seperate build. It could warn if you had less than 6 GB ram or whatever. As for any memory leaking or related, I'm sure there is a way to get on top of that too. I skim-read your blog post of memory-leaks and memory-presure for bitmap graphics. There must be some way to let some of the Logos modules or code-blocks to track their usage in some ways for your internal builds. I get "Not Responding" messages very common when I open something new, so maybe thats a memory thing and garbage-collection needs to run or something. I have yet to attempt to monitor the threads or memory usage of the Logos4 application. Maybe I'll do so some time ...
Sorry to other readers here, for all the geek-speak.
Regards,
Jim.
Hi Bradley,
I'm running Vista 64, even though I'm running Office 32. I think Rosie may be doing the same, if I remember right. Is there any possibility that the 64bit OS is throwing things off?
Hi Bradley, I'm running Vista 64, even though I'm running Office 32. I think Rosie may be doing the same, if I remember right. Is there any possibility that the 64bit OS is throwing things off?
I run Win 7 64 bit version and Office 2010 32 bit (Czech version [:)] ) and it works.
I run Win 7 64 bit version and Office 2010 32 bit (Czech version ) and it works.
Hi Bohuslav,
Good to hear for W7... Anyone running Vista 64 with L4 Smart Tags successfully installed?
Beta 11 installed.... still no wavy line... log attached.3603.SmartTag.log
A 64-bit OS does make COM registration work slightly differently, so it is a possibility that it's causing the problem. However, we've tested here with Vista x64 and Windows 7 x64 and can't reproduce the problem.
Hi Bill,
I've written a standalone diagnostic program to check various registry values and try to start the Logos 4 COM server in the same way that the smart tag does; it may provide some additional information on what's preventing the smart tag working on your system.
To run it, open a regular command prompt and execute the program. It will print its results to the screen by default; you can send them to a file by running (for example): SmartTagDiagnostics.exe > C:\Temp\Diagnostics.txt
It will try to communicate with Logos 4, so please have Logos 4 running before you run the diagnostics. You can then post the Diagnostics.txt file here.
2664.SmartTagDiagnostics.zip
Hi Bill, I've written a standalone diagnostic program to check various registry values and try to start the Logos 4 COM server in the same way that the smart tag does; it may provide some additional information on what's preventing the smart tag working on your system. To run it, open a regular command prompt and execute the program. It will print its results to the screen by default; you can send them to a file by running (for example): SmartTagDiagnostics.exe > C:\Temp\Diagnostics.txt It will try to communicate with Logos 4, so please have Logos 4 running before you run the diagnostics. You can then post the Diagnostics.txt file here. 2664.SmartTagDiagnostics.zip
Thanks, Bradley. I've run this on my machine, and here's my diagnostics.txt file with a couple of failures in it towards the end:
1108.diagnostics.txt
Thanks, Bradley. Here's my log...5736.Diagnostics.txt
Rosie & Bill,
Both your log files show the same error message as before (which I'm unable to duplicate here so far). I've added some more diagnostics to the program. Please run the attached version and report back--thanks!
5707.SmartTagDiagnostics.zip
Thanks, & DONE!
2783.Diagnostics.txt
We have finally managed to reproduce the problem here. The fundamental issue is a bug in Windows Vista related to UAC and per-user COM registration.
We know of three workarounds:
Yea Bradley !!!!!!!
Yea Bill !!!!!!!
Praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Install the KB971138 hotfix for this issue (we haven't tested this, but it's supposed to correct this problem)
L4 Smart Tags are now working on my system. The hotfix worked.
PTL! Bradley, you're the best! Thanks SO MUCH!
Blessings to you!
You're welcome. A lot of the thanks belongs to Ed and Todd who helped track down and reproduce this problem. (Ed, in particular, discovered the underlying cause and found the hotfix you applied.)
Hi Bradley, Ed, & Todd, I can see why Logos is such a great place to work. You folks make a great team. You're the best!
Blessings to you all,
Bill
And let's not forget to thank Chris Jackson for blogging about the problem, Microsoft for creating the hotfix, and Google for finding them both.
Thanks, all! It's working for me now, too. And I will surely be making a note of this thread in case others report problems with SmartTags on Vista in the future.
Thanks, Ed!
Interesting piece of detective work. The development team is to be commended!
Glad everyone can enjoy the new Smart Tags now.
I've written up a short wiki page on this, pointing people to the more common reasons for SmartTags not working first: http://wiki.logos.com/SmartTags_Not_Working
Thanks, Rosie.
I've added the other "you must do X" notes from http://www.logos.com/articleviewer/530 to that page, so that there's a clear list of things that may cause problems with the smart tag.
Thanks! I've changed it to "Logos 4.1 must be running (in the background)."
I am running Windows 7 64 bit with Ofice 2007. I now have Smart Tags
BUT the underlining is so faint that it is very, very difficult to even see it.
I am running Windows 7 64 bit with Ofice 2007. I now have Smart Tags BUT the underlining is so faint that it is very, very difficult to even see it.
Agreed. Not much you can do about it. This is Word's fault, and they apparently do not give you an option to change the width or color or style of that dotted underline. Best you can do is work in a larger font, which makes it slightly easier to see.
I am running Windows 7 64 bit with Ofice 2007. I now have Smart Tags BUT the underlining is so faint that it is very, very difficult to even see it. Agreed. Not much you can do about it. This is Word's fault, and they apparently do not give you an option to change the width or color or style of that dotted underline. Best you can do is work in a larger font, which makes it slightly easier to see.
Hi Steve,
Rosie's right there isn't an option to change the width or color style, but I find it a little easier to see when I'm scaling the view to 110% of normal, with a 12 point font. Depending on the monitor, I often run 110% for that reason. I'm claiming it's the monitor, not my old eyes. ;-)
I'm scaling the view to 110% of normal, with a 12 point font. Depending on the monitor, I often run 110% for that reason. I'm claiming it's the monitor, not my old eyes. ;-)
That woks better! [:)]
three workarounds
Thanks again, Bradley! They're still working great!
I noticed a few minutes ago that I'm still producing a log each time I use them... I've already updated to 4.1 beta 13, & it didn't stop. Is the logging version now installed by default? Or do I need to manually reinstall the non-logging Smart Tag? If the latter, where would I find it?
Thanks again for all your help!
On a side note, I think I'd prefer to automatically start Logos (as L3 does) rather than having to remember to do start L4 before I use them. I'm sure others will feel differently, so if providing the option isn't a big deal I'd sure appreciate one!
Blessings!
I'm sure they can put the option in the Smart Tag menu in Word[:)]
Just to share, I have the smart tags working now.
Word 2010 32-bit on Win7 64-bit
Sorry if I'm asking a question already asked but will word 2010 ever get the drop down arrow like other smart tags?
It's extremely unlikely; Microsoft changed the way Smart Tags work in Office 2010 (and also stated that they're deprecated, so they're likely to disappear entirely in a future release). For more information, see http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179199.aspx.
It's possible that the non-logging version didn't get re-registered, because we didn't actually update it between Beta 10 & 13. You can find it in your "Logos4\System" folder if you want to manually re-register it (with regsvr32).
2nd Edit: figured out I was in the wrong directory when I tried regsvr32, got it to work, so I've edited this post to remove that question.
But my laptop was having other problems, so I rebooted (hadn't for a couple of days). After reboot, logging continues. Here's a picture showing the info about the file in my L4 system folder:
As you can see, it appears to be the same test file we put in. What say you?
Thanks a bazillion for all your help!
You should be able to get the official file back by deleting that one, then right-clicking %LOCALAPPDATA%\Logos4\Install\Installers\Logos4.msi and choosing Repair. (Make sure Word, Outlook, and other Office programs aren't running, so that they don't have the DLL open when you try to do this.)
Thanks, Bradley! That appears to have done the trick in 2 ways:
I'm a happy camper!
Question: I forgot to check earlier... did we lose the ability to invoke the passage guide from Smart Tags? Not a big deal, but I enjoyed using it & would like to see it back.
And again, many thanks to you for all your help!
I typed John 3:16, then right clicked on the word John (the abbreviation worked too) then chose actions off the right-click menu and there were choices to copy or go to Logos and look at the passage. I have Word 2010, Logos 4, and Logos 3 loaded. When I chose the copy option Word opened Logos 3 - then I could copy the passage. So it worked, but not quite the same as I was use to. Seems to require Logos 3 be loaded.
Seems to require Logos 3 be loaded.
Earlier in this thread, I think, were instructions for turning OFF your L3 Smart Tag & turning ON your L4 Smart Tag. Sounds like your L3 Smart Tag is still the one operative. The L4 Smart Tag doesn't open L3 or L4 (tho' I'd like it to open L4).
When I chose the copy option Word opened Logos 3 - then I could copy the passage. So it worked, but not quite the same as I was use to. Seems to require Logos 3 be loaded.
Is yours Smart Tag still opening L3?
In trying L4 Smart Tag's "Passage Guide" today, it consistently opened L3's passage guide! Can anyone else confirm? Do I need to report this as another bug?
Thanks!
In trying L4 Smart Tag's "Passage Guide" today, it consistently opened L3's passage guide!
Bill, this is the L4 Smart Tag options in Word 2007:-
Only the L3 Smart Tag has the Passage Guide option:-
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding. Today, I'm getting what you're getting. That makes me much less confident that I got L3 to run a PG from the L4 Smart Tag as I was doing my research, yesterday. (I DID have L3 PG open. But I'm no longer so sure how I opened it... Maybe I had a senior moment & keyed in the reference range instead of doing it from Word as I thought I had when I posted.)
I checked this morning: I did NOT have the L3 Smart Tag enabled, only the L4 Smart Tag.
I think I'm going to go have more coffee.... [C]
Thanks for the response & sorry for any confusion...
no worries ... (I have my moments as well).
