Official Survey: How do you feel about Logos Pro and the move to subscription?

Mark Barnes (Logos)

We've really valued your feedback on the two subscription threads. We've read every comment and discussed many of them.

If you have five minutes, we'd appreciate you completing this survey.

Completing the survey will help us better understand your desires and concerns as we move towards subscription.

Thanks for your ongoing help!

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Comments

Frank Sauer

I hope I'm wrong, but the posts from Logos and the survey seem to point towards ignoring all of the loyal customers that have no desire for a subscription. Where are the questions about desire for purchasing in the survey? Sounds like the decision is made and the request for feedback was a ploy to say it was done, with no intent to respond in kind... I truly hope I am wrong....

Yasmin Stephen

If you have five minutes, we'd appreciate you completing this survey.

Do you plan to send this via email to all customers? Not every customer frequents the forums.

Rosie Perera

the survey seem to point towards ignoring all of the loyal customers that have no desire for a subscription. Where are the questions about desire for purchasing in the survey?

There are questions in the survey that capture the input of customers who have no interest in a subscription.

Kiyah

the survey seem to point towards ignoring all of the loyal customers that have no desire for a subscription. Where are the questions about desire for purchasing in the survey?

There are questions in the survey that capture the input of customers who have no interest in a subscription.

Also, this open-ended question is an opportunity to re-iterate your opposition to a subscription model and your desire to purchase/own features.

EDITED to actually include the screenshot:

Christopher Esget

The more I think about it, the more I like the move to subscription. I was very reluctant to move to subscribing elsewhere, e.g., streaming music. Now I love being able to access a vast catalog of music. I'd bought vinyl albums, 8-track, cassettes, and CDs. I was always "renting," in a sense.

Books are a bit different, but as long as we aren't losing our original investments, I'm fine with it. Each iteration of Logos, while purchased (i.e., feature sets) is not permanent, any more than a copy of Microsoft Word. It's only going to work for a few years; eventually the technology changes and you have to upgrade. A subscription just makes the entire process easier, and cloud based. This is going to be great.

Everything is temporary. Moths and rust destroy, thieves break in and steal. Logos (the company) is temporary too, but I really want them to be around for as long as I'm in this earthen vessel.

David Beard

I signed up for Logos Pro today when I watched Joshua Rowe explain it on MP Seminars. While I don't have any problem with the use of AI, I do have some reservations about pricing ($9.99/month) as it is being marketed as an "early access" program which is what I thought I was getting with Faithlife Connect (another $8.99/month) and is another "early access" subscription. I think this is a little on the excessive side, and I certainly do think that there should be some streamlined pricing for people who are signed up for both. I am already paying for all my resources up front and close to $19.00 per month additional seems too much. I will definitely re-think my subscriptions...

Sam Shelton

I have finished filling out what seems to me to be a well thought out survey. Thanks so much!

JT (alabama24)

an "early access" program which is what I thought I was getting with Faithlife Connect (another $8.99/month) and is another "early access" subscription.

Faithlife Connect was never an "early access" subscription. A previous service, called "Logos Now," was.

Dave Hooton

I think this is a little on the excessive side, and I certainly do think that there should be some streamlined pricing for people who are signed up for both. I am already paying for all my resources up front and close to $19.00 per month additional seems too much. I

David

You will not have to pay for two subscriptions as the intention is to migrate users from Connect/Logos Now to the new subscription.

If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books.

So you should continue with Connect, but you could opt out of Logos Pro until the new subscription is finalised.

Mark

Faithlife Connect was never an "early access" subscription. A previous service, called "Logos Now," was.

It was already pointed out in another thread to you that this is incorrect:

"We created a special level of Faithlife Connect just for Logos Now members: Faithlife Connect Essentials (No Library). This plan includes all the features and benefits of Logos Now, plus all the additional Faithlife Connect benefits—without a change in price."

The above quote is from here.

JT (alabama24)

I don’t see anything that contradicts what I wrote. When Logos Now ended, so did “future features, now!” When the level you mentioned came out, it provided access to what was then “released features” at a lower price point (without some of the new benefits of FC).

Justin Gatlin

I think the survey is a good summary of the content of the other thread and am glad you will get quantifiable feedback.

It does seem a little weird that you have created the weird overlap between Faithlife Connect and Logos Pro instead of just giving existing subscribers access to Logos Pro for the rest of their subscription period and then giving them the choice to discontinue or move to the new model.

Dave Hooton

It was already pointed out in another thread to you that this is incorrect:

"We created a special level of Faithlife Connect just for Logos Now members: Faithlife Connect Essentials (No Library). This plan includes all the features and benefits of Logos Now, plus all the additional Faithlife Connect benefits—without a change in price."

The above quote is from here.

What JT stated is substantially correct. Although the term "early access" was never applied to Logos Now, it still gave access to features as they were being developed. That did not apply to Connect, despite any implication from the statement quoted above.

Paul Gibson

I'm going to comment in the general order the questions appear, and this is quite long.

(1-2) I'm a layperson who uses Logos for personal study. If you haven't read Mark Barns' original posts, please do so before taking the survey. They answer a lot of questions people have.

(3-5) I was happy using Logos 10 Starter, but when I read the announcement of major changes to Logos, I decided to get the Logos 10 Full Feature Upgrade and subscribe to Logos Pro (I also have a number of Legacy Libraries, but I haven't had a feature set of any version of Logos higher than Starter before). I don't need the additional features, but I want to be involved in helping shape the future of Logos, even if it's in a miniscule way. I'm mostly excited about it, but I definitely have concerns. Whether I continue subscribing to Logos Pro will likely depend on where I see this product going in the next year or two.

I am entirely sympathetic to the people who are objecting to subscriptions. I strongly believe there needs to be a product that's similar to what Logos has traditionally been: a one-time purchase for a given feature set, and the ability to work off-line. Some people simply can't afford a subscription, and others don't have a reliable Internet connection. I believe how Faithlife addresses these two issues will affect their market share of the Bible study industry. I've seen comments by people who have Logos but still use WordSearch. I don't want Logos to be on the losing side if people see a better value elsewhere.

(10) A big concern is what happens if people stop subscribing. People have changes in finances and may not be able to afford a subscription in the future. What if they've been paying for a Logos subscription for 5 years? At $9.99 a month, that's $600. They'll keep books they purchased, but those are independent of features. People who purchased Logos before subscriptions would keep those features. Do subscription-only uses go back to the Free feature set? Will 2-3 years of subscriptions lock in a feature set even if the subscription is cancelled?

(6) Since I was a Starter user, new features don't interest me a whole lot. I primarily use Logos Mobile, and I'm interested in having Mobile improve it's features to be more in-step with Desktop. At a minimum, Web needs to be completely in-step with Desktop; all features should have same day release on both.

What I am hoping for is that subscriptions will raise the overall quality and consistency of the Logos program, and allow Faithlife to increase the available resources. In particular, I'd like to see a commitment from Faithlife to complete series they have partially released; I would rather have that than for new resources to be started. I have some sets that I'm waiting to be completed, e.g. Lexham Geographic Commentary. This is my greatest frustration with Logos.

(7) AI is interesting, but it's current implementation is of limited use to me. I'm my tests, Smart Search is less likely to find useful results than a Precise Search. I've had some fairly good results with the Summarize feature, but until it's in Mobile I won't be using it much. I was expecting something more like a chatbot, but I'm not really disappointed with AI since this is a very early version in Logos. I want Faithlife to be extremely cautious in implementing it, since incorrect answers could potentially have eternal consequences (although I'm trusting the Holy Spirit won't allow that). I'm eagerly waiting to see what Logos AI will be like in 3-5 years.

(8-9) I've looked at the 430+ books available in Logos Pro: https://www.logos.com/early-access

(Using a browser not logged into Logos.com, I can't see the list of books, so I'm not sure how non-subscribers are supposed to see it. Is there another link?)

On the page, there's a note "**Access only. If you end your Logos Pro subscription, these books will be removed if you haven’t purchased them separately." I suspect the list isn't displaying accurately, because not a single resource on my list has ** beside it. I sincerely doubt I had access to all of those before subscribing to Logos Pro. The ones I'm familiar with I already have, and the ones I'm not familiar with I don't know if they're good resources or not.

(10) The most important perk that Faithlife should offer with a subscription is "A fallback license, so if I stop subscribing, I still retain some features", which I wrote about above. I'm voting for this more for the sake of other people than myself, as I've so far been satisfied with Starter. I wouldn't lose much but stopping my subscription, but that could certainly change in the future. "Discounts on most purchases" would be my second, and "Annual gift certificate based on spend" is my third. I normally get the free books, but it's rare that one interests me enough to read it. I get them with the hope I may find them when I doing a search some day. I learn best by reading, not by video, so Faithlife TV and Mobile Ed don't entice me too much. I already have RightNow Media through church, which I rarely use

(11) There was a post a couple of weeks ago about Logos for your church:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221688.aspx

I like the idea in theory, but I strongly suspect that few church members would be interested. My wife does a lot of Bible studies, but she mostly does curriculums for the groups she attends. I've suggested several times she looks at Logos, but there hasn't been much interest. I've talked to guys in my men's study, but they haven't seemed interested. The people who are willing to use an electronic tool (which I think is a small percentage of my church's attendees) are satisfied with free programs like YouVersion; they simply don't need (or want to learn) a program like Logos. I think one of the big advantages to YouVersion is that 3rd-parties can add content like devotionals (I presume there some kind of review before content is made public).

What might be useful is a Logos Lite which incorporates basic Bible studies (and allows most Logos resources), but limits features to basics like highlighting and notes. The other part of this needs to focus on the church being a community, so there needs to be features which brings the community together, e.g. prayer lists and church schedules. (I use the app Echo Prayers because Logos Prayers feels very limiting to me.) I could also see the benefit of a pastor sharing sermon notes or slide decks with the congregation, and allowing the attendees to take notes during the sermon, then allowing those people to share their notes with others. Dare I say a church-oriented social media platform, but without the distractions a public social media platform has? Let the flame wars begin!

Sean

We've really valued your feedback on the two subscription threads. We've read every comment and discussed many of them.

If you have five minutes, we'd appreciate you completing this survey.

Completing the survey will help us better understand your desires and concerns as we move towards subscription.

Thanks for your ongoing help!

I have also filled out the survey.

While I'm not thrilled with the idea of subscriptions and doubt that I'll like the final outcome, I do appreciate your willingness to engage and listen to your customer base.

Dave Hooton

(10) A big concern is what happens if people stop subscribing. People have changes in finances and may not be able to afford a subscription in the future. What if they've been paying for a Logos subscription for 5 years? At $9.99 a month, that's $600. They'll keep books they purchased, but those are independent of features. People who purchased Logos before subscriptions would keep those features. Do subscription-only uses go back to the Free feature set? Will 2-3 years of subscriptions lock in a feature set even if the subscription is cancelled?

You will always keep what you own at the time of cancelling. If you had 'purchased' a free set of features, you should also keep that, but it is not clear that a free set will be available in the future.

If there is an opportunity to buy features when subscribed, you should do so, and there could be incentives for long term subscribers and those who invest in books.

Dave Hooton

What I am hoping for is that subscriptions will raise the overall quality and consistency of the Logos program, and allow Faithlife to increase the available resources. In particular, I'd like to see a commitment from Faithlife to complete series they have partially released; I would rather have that than for new resources to be started. I have some sets that I'm waiting to be completed, e.g. Lexham Geographic Commentary. This is my greatest frustration with Logos.

I think you will find it is frustrating for FL/Lexham, as with other publishers, when designated authors don't deliver. There are a few third party series I would like to have completed.

I want Faithlife to be extremely cautious in implementing it, since incorrect answers could potentially have eternal consequences (although I'm trusting the Holy Spirit won't allow that). I'm eagerly waiting to see what Logos AI will be like in 3-5 years.

They are being cautious, which is why the present Search AI is not query based. If you use words like "why", "when", "what" it will return articles with those words!

(Using a browser not logged into Logos.com, I can't see the list of books, so I'm not sure how non-subscribers are supposed to see it. Is there another link?)

As long as you have an account with FL you can login. You can use logos.com for that, but I was asked to do that using the link in MS Edge (not my default browser). Then I had access to the Books.

On the page, there's a note "**Access only. If you end your Logos Pro subscription, these books will be removed if you haven’t purchased them separately." I suspect the list isn't displaying accurately, because not a single resource on my list has ** beside it. I sincerely doubt I had access to all of those before subscribing to Logos Pro..

The ** denotes that what follows is a note/warning! You have temporary access to all the files unless you own them.

Frank Sauer

the survey seem to point towards ignoring all of the loyal customers that have no desire for a subscription. Where are the questions about desire for purchasing in the survey?

There are questions in the survey that capture the input of customers who have no interest in a subscription.

My point exactly - it's all about Subscription.... The response in the forum threads seems to show the subscription model is a minority supported feature. A question or two asking directly pertaining to the support of perpetual licenses or which would you prefer with three choices - perpetual, subscription or both would have been nice on there. That would represent the sentiment in the forum response.

The survey question were a traditional marketing tactic that use wording to push the company plan... Which I expect from some companies.... I was hoping that FL/Logos would have actually reflected otherwise and honored the feedback in the forums with the survey.....

Steven Chapman

I have answered the survey. However, it is becoming increasingly apparent that those who do not jump on board the express to subscriptions are going to be left behind (I hope I'm incorrect).

I purchased Logos 10 full-fearure on the day of release, but I am not interested in cloud-based features including AI. I would like to see the mobile (Android) functionality improved in some ways, particularly sermon editing capabilities, but it sounds like the decision has been made to withhold any such upgrades from clients who don't get a subscription.

$9.99/month may not seem like much. But when those with stagnant wages are seeing their financial capacity shrinking due to inflationary pressure, even that amount may be huge. I'm speaking as someone who has not gotten so much as a COLA in ten years.

Please, reconsider making available a non-cloud-based feature option to customers who can't afford, don't need, or simply won't get a subscription.

Donovan R. Palmer

To muddy the waters... syncing between devices is termed by some as a 'cloud feature'. I have a couple of software programmes that are free, but you have to pay to use their cloud services to sync your data between devices.

I am not suggesting Logos go this route... but I can appreciate that if they do not charge for this kind of cloud support, that they will need to have the economics working through the sale of books or features to pay for it. Probably doable, but everyone's business models are different and there has definitely been a change in economics in the industry as demands on cloud features has matured and increased over the last few years.

DMB

My point exactly - it's all about Subscription....

Frank, I share your opinions. But Mark was up-front from the start .... subscriptions. Later ... not a democracy. And ... the forum is just one of many input-sources. The ship departs Southampton. It's just a question of how to arrange the deck chairs for passenger comfort.

I keep trying to imagine (1) a future feature I'd want, (2) an intuitive feature they could actually design, and (3) something they'll stick with. Their last good design was MBD and I think that was almost a decade back. They're not good at features.

Rick Ausdahl

(8-9) I've looked at the 430+ books available in Logos Pro: https://www.logos.com/early-access

When I use this link to view the resources included in Logos Pro, all I get is the web page shown below. Am I missing something?

Robert le Clus

I responded to the survey but I thought I might also post my thoughts here.

I have been using Logo for more than 20 year and invested quite a few dollars (technically Rands as that is my currency) in books and upgrades over the years. I have been using the software even before the Libronix days.

I see this move to subscription only model (which incidentally I just discovered today by accident) as a fundamental betrayal of my loyal support over many many years. I am 46 years old which means I have been using Logos for almost half my life!

In my opinion all the "reasons" for going subscription could easily be done for those who WANT it. Like it is now. I don't get access to the latest stuff and honestly I'm happy to wait fo the new release. Now I have no choice.

Sure AI is cool but really. AI might be useful one day but honestly I'd prefer not to pay for it. It hasn't proven very useful to me and I have tried to use it in my every day software engineering work. The idea of AI is great but the implementation so far is not the best.

You say I'll still have access to my books and all the features I have already purchased. What you forgot to add is "for now"

I am a software developer. I know that software changes. I have been writing software professionally for longer than I have been actively using Logos and none of the software I used in the past works anymore. Pretty much all the software I have written under contract is gone now. So I have my features now but if I don't subscribe, how long till my version of Logos is no more than a simple book reader with search capabilities (like the original Libronix for Mac was).

I already can't use all the features of Logos because I often work offline (on a plane or in church) and now with subscription I will eventually lose even more.

It also makes me wonder whether I should continue to buy books for Logos and not go somewhere else. Who knows how long my software will continue to work properly in the future.

And can Logos/Faithlife guarantee that a feature I own now won't be decomissioned in future in favour of something else that requires a subscription to use. Obviously not! That would be ludicrous. The nature of software makes that impossible.

So Logos has put a clock on how long I can still use their software!

And I live in South Africa. $20 a month is a significant investment. But who cares about those overseas people with weaker currencies!

I am not happy with this move and honestly it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

"You will own nothing and you will be happy"

xnman

Welll.... I was a software developer also (for Engineering/database type). And like you, all of the software my team developed will not work now. (Dec 11-44, IBM-486 machines are no more). Technology improves/changes. That is the nature of the beast. I remember writing programs that ran on an IBM 486 desktop computer Dos machines. Surely they don't work on todays technology.

Having said that, software has to change with technology or die. Such is the case with Logos. While I, like you, may not like the choices that new software brings... I, as you, have basically two choices... either buy into the new way of technology or quit. It sounds harsh, don't mean it to, but that is the reality.

Where is it headed? I think it's here to stay. Microsoft has subscription with Office 365 and from what I understand, are gaining subscribers. Go figure! People must like getting changes early. In some ways, I like getting changes quickly. And from what I'm thinking in all this.... if the subscription rates are cheaper than buying updates every couple of years, then what's the harm?

Edit: [And if you think software developer such as Logos can work all year and just get paid once a year (yearly updates).... think about it... would you work that way when people demand you work cheaply? I would not. I, and my family, has depended on steady, monthly income since before I had a family. Subscription should help Logos bottom line because they can then forecast their revenue much more accurately and know better how to apply their employees to develop the software. Hopefully, we will se a more "stable" employee environment and stop some of this "coming and going" like a yo-yo bobbing on a string.[

All this is my two cents.... which is not worth any more than that. [8-|]

I appreciate your thoughts and I wish you well.

Robert le Clus

Hi xnman

I appreciate your thoughts. However I do differ on a few things.

Ownership is important. The Bible tells us "Do not steal" (Exo 20:15). This implies the concept of ownership. Thus property rights are important. So I bought the 10392 resources and I own them. But they are in a building that I also pay for. However, now I can still have access to the building but I don't own it anymore. Its been upgraded. Eventually I lose access to the building. So I cannot access by books anymore. The fact that I own them is meaningless. The Logos promise has always been I will always have access to my resources. That is now a lie. Sure its true for now. But if I don't pay lots of money to them every month in perpertuity I lose access to what I bought. Thanks for nothing, Faithlife.

Software companies all over the world deal with forecasting etc. Going subscription only (Logos already has subscription) is lazy. And going back to point 1, Logos is breaking their promise. I thought Christians kept their promises. But I guess the Bible is up for grabs too. Open to interpertation.

It isn't just one subscription. Most people have finite money. If everything becomes subscription only where does it end? If you want a subscription then get it. But making it mandatory is crazy. I do photography for fun. But I need software to process my raw photos. I have to pay a subscription to use the latest Lightroom because they won't make it available standalone anymore. But I don't use it every day. Tough luck for me. Looks like Logos is going the same route. So that is the harm. Plus if I only use 30% of the new features do I get a discount? No I pay full price.

Subscription models are not new technology. And I am not expecting anything for free. I will pay. But I want to pay on my own terms. I don't expect Logos to support old tech forever. But if I don't want the AI features why should I pay for them. If people want them, let them pay! Why should I be forced to pay?

Fundamentally, I have sunk 20 years of my money into Logos and I feel cheated. And worse I feel sad. I never expected a time would come when I would not be able to use Logos anymore. I have gained emmense benefit from the software and now I feel like I wasted my money. I feel like those guys who bought BibleWorks back in the day. 28th March 2024 will go down in my history as the day I found out that Logos isn't interested in supporting me anymore. I have lost something good and useful and I will mourn that loss... I will continue to use the software until it stops working but every day will be a reminder that I am now alone. I will not advovate for others to buy Logos. I will not extol its virtues. And eventually I will move away from it entirely. And that makes me very sad! It was a good run. But now it is over.

xnman

Ok... let's get real. I understand the reluctance to go to a "monthly subscription"... as I am not overly fond of the idea myself, mainly because I've never done it. But can someone tell me which will be cheaper.... the annual update price ... or... the monthly subscription price for the same time period?

I mean.... right now Logos Pro is costing me $120 per year. Would the annual or 2 year update price be cheaper than that? To me, this is where the rubber meets the road... right?

Thanks.

Graham Criddle

I mean.... right now Logos Pro is costing me $120 per year. Would the annual or 2 year update price be cheaper than that? To me, this is where the rubber meets the road... right?

We don't know the answer to this - my guess, for new subscribers at least, to get access to all features on a subscription basis would be more than that.

Graham Criddle

Eventually I lose access to the building. So I cannot access by books anymore. The fact that I own them is meaningless. The Logos promise has always been I will always have access to my resources. That is now a lie. Sure its true for now. But if I don't pay lots of money to them every month in perpertuity I lose access to what I bought.

Mark states the opposite https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221744.aspx at where he says:

Your investment in Logos is safe, and you’ll always be able to access your books for free. We’re 100% committed to continuing to provide free software to ensure you’ll always be able to read and interact with your books.

And I know people have raised questions about how this will be delivered but, from a business perspective, I would think Logos would need to do this to avoid people becoming disenfranchised.

DMB

Ownership is important. The Bible tells us "Do not steal" (Exo 20:15). This implies the concept of ownership. Thus property rights are important.

....

Fundamentally, I have sunk 20 years of my money into Logos and I feel cheated. And worse I feel sad. I never expected a time would come when I would not be able to use Logos anymore. I have gained emmense benefit from the software and now I feel like I wasted my money. I feel like those guys who bought BibleWorks back in the day. 28th March 2024 will go down in my history as the day I found out that Logos isn't interested in supporting me anymore. I have lost something good and useful and I will mourn that loss... I will continue to use the software until it stops working but every day will be a reminder that I am now alone. I will not advovate for others to buy Logos. I will not extol its virtues. And eventually I will move away from it entirely. And that makes me very sad! It was a good run. But now it is over.

Robert, first, they haven't decided 'all' vs 'some'. In fact, they're surveying. That'll be a decision later this year. Second, as you mention, this is just this year. Next year, another business-saving proposal? Or the next? I think they turned a corner, with their new owners.

So, your point remains. On the plus side, Libronix died 15 years ago, and I still use it and my library. I plan Logos similarly.

Regarding the Bible and ownership, my first impression was you over-stepped. And then I remembered the issue of land rents and the poor ... it's how you date the Parables of Enoch.

Yasmin Stephen

As we're completing this survey to help shape Logos's subscription offerings, I got an out-of-the-blue email from Voice Dream notifying me of their move to a subscription-only model:

[quote]

To keep improving the app, we’re switching everyone to subscription pricing on May 1, 2024. From then on, Voice Dream's premium features, including new document uploads, will require a subscription.

Take it or leave it. After May 1, I won't be able to upload new documents for listening without a subscription, and I might as well delete the app, along with all the voices I bought for it. This is an app I've used every day for close to 10 years, but at US$60.00 a year (US$80.00 for new customers), I'm definitely leaving it. Priorities.

Of course, Voice Dream cannot be compared to Logos, but I'm grateful for both Logos's very advance notice and the opportunity (via the survey) to have a voice (no pun intended!) in the type of subscription offerings we'll get.

Rick Ausdahl

(8-9) I've looked at the 430+ books available in Logos Pro: https://www.logos.com/early-access

When I use this link to view the resources included in Logos Pro, all I get is the web page shown below. Am I missing something?

As noted in my initial post, I've been seeing the URL https://www.logos.com/early-access, listed in various threads as a place one can go to see the 430+ resources that are included with Logos Pro, but all I see when I go to that URL, is a web page that says "Something New is Coming Soon.

Is that because I don't currently have the Logos 10 Full Feature Set? Does a person have to already own the Full Feature set just to see the list of resources included with Logos Pro?

Roy

Is that because I don't currently have the Logos 10 Full Feature Set? Does a person have to already own the Full Feature set just to see the list of resources included with Logos Pro?

[quote]

Can I get these subscriptions today?

One of the tiers of the forthcoming subscription will be called Logos Pro, and it will be aimed specifically at pastors. The full launch of these subscriptions won’t happen until later in the year, but if you own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set or subscribe to Faithlife Connect (excluding Starter and Mobile), you can get early access to Logos Pro today at a very special price.

[quote]

How do I get it?

If you qualify, you can get early access to Logos Pro today at www.logos.com/early-access.

This is purely a guess but I "think" that you have to "Qualify" for the early access to the subscription in order to see the page. Again, just a guess.

Why would they do this? Again a guess, but maybe to prevent people from complaining that they can't get the subscription process to work (and no I am not saying that you are complaining. Your just wondering.)

Dave Hooton

As noted in my initial post, I've been seeing the URL https://www.logos.com/early-access listed in various threads as a place one can go to see the 430+ resources that are included with Logos Pro, but all I see when I go to that URL, is a web page that says "Something New is Coming Soon.

Is that because I don't currently have the Logos 10 Full Feature Set? Does a person have to already own the Full Feature set just to see the list of resources included with Logos Pro?

No. I got access without being an owner of the Full Feature set (Note, one has to remove the comma from the end of your URL).

I notice that are logged into logos.com, so I can't explain your result.

Steven MacDonald

Simple constructive summary for you. Many want to point at Microsoft as the example that we all "must" move toward a subscription model. However, Microsoft offers a subscription model for Office 365, but standalone versions of Office are still able to be purchased. Their feature sets are locked at that version and that is fine. They are considering the desires of all their customers.

You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.

Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.

So you still make money. Potentially more with the standard purchase model.

It's not semantics. I want my feature set to move forward without having to rent it.

Thank you for listening.

Rick Ausdahl

Simple constructive summary for you. Many want to point at Microsoft as the example that we all "must" move toward a subscription model. However, Microsoft offers a subscription model for Office 365, but standalone versions of Office are still able to be purchased. Their feature sets are locked at that version and that is fine. They are considering the desires of all their customers.

You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.

Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.

So you still make money. Potentially more with the standard purchase model.

It's not semantics. I want my feature set to move forward without having to rent it.

Thank you for listening.

I believe others have mentioned something along this alternative, but I'll mention it again--a subscription plan that leaves you owning features after so many months of subscription to them. I.e. Rent-to-Own.

harsada chohan

Today, I enrolled in Logos Pro after watching Joshua Rowe's presentation on MP Seminars. While I appreciate AI use, I'm concerned about the $9.99/month pricing for an "early access" program, similar to Faithlife Connect's $8.99/month. This seems excessive, especially for existing subscribers. Streamlined pricing for both subscriptions would be appreciated, as I'm already investing significantly in resources upfront. I'll reconsider my subscriptions accordingly.

DMB

You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.

Maybe. But I doubt it (and also won't subscribe). First, M/S is a completely different equation. Logos features are nice to have; not core. And earlier FL subscription content has either failed on customer appeal, or profitability.

My guess: some version of forced FL subscription is unavoidable.

Yasmin Stephen

You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.

Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.

I'm always bemused by how some of you seem to know enough about Logos's internal financial workings to make such assertions. Keep it coming, because Logos's financial team must be too [insert appropriate word here] to do the math themselves. At least you didn't preface your comment with "if it were my company ...".

Steven MacDonald

Thanks for your perspective. However, regardless of their financial health, which no one outside knows, having both the subscription and full feature set options results in greater revenue. Otherwise, those who have no desire to subscribe will not. That is basic math.

DMB

That is basic math.

Not really. They're banking on subscriptions being considerably more affordable, to a much larger customer base. Lose some, gain more.

Joshua Tan

I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".

What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?
If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)

If this has already been covered in a forum post, please point me to it. I wasn't able to get much info from the official site except that "If you switch from your existing subscription to Logos Pro, you’d lose some perks, features, and books. Later in the year, we’ll have information about how you can switch while keeping your content and features."

Graham Criddle

Hi Joshua

I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".

What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?

If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)

In https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221543.aspx Mark says:

Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?

The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions.

If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.

Hope this helps, Graham

Joey Midgett

My concern is this, I am already paying $100.00 a year for Logos Connect, the post says, I can pay an additional $9.99 a month to test drive Logos Pro now (without all the features as of yet.) and will be offered a deal in the coming months to stay on Logos Pro. So I would now be paying essentially $220.00 a year for what I have now plus Logos Pro (partial, we'll call it.) If I am then to be offered a deal, what is that going to look like. I can not afford even the $220.00 a year and it sounds like it's going to be even more than that.

So I guess we will have to wait and see. I sure hope come Autum we are given some time to see the prices and make a decision on what is best for us rather than them just roll out the prices and we have to make a decision quickly.

Please give us some time knowing what the costs are going to be.

But from what I am gathering, it is going to be too rich for my blood, which puts me in a bad place, because I don't own many features that aren't rented through Logos Connect.

Edit: I just went and purchased the Preaching Suite Feature Upgrade just in case I have to cancel all subscriptions, I will at least have something for some time to come anyway. But again, I do hope these subscriptions are affordable as I do like to have new features and I do want to see Logos succeed as a company.

Here's hoping...

Dave Hooton

My concern is this, I am already paying $100.00 a year for Logos Connect, the post says, I can pay an additional $9.99 a month to test drive Logos Pro now (without all the features as of yet.) and will be offered a deal in the coming months to stay on Logos Pro. So I would now be paying essentially $220.00 a year for what I have now plus Logos Pro (partial, we'll call it.) If I am then to be offered a deal, what is that going to look like. I can not afford even the $220.00 a year and it sounds like it's going to be even more than that.

So I guess we will have to wait and see. I sure hope come Autum we are given some time to see the prices and make a decision on what is best for us rather than them just roll out the prices and we have to make a decision quickly.

Please give us some time knowing what the costs are going to be.

This is all answered by (Mt 24:36)[:)] and the quote from Mark Barnes: "If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books."

Joshua Tan

Hi Joshua

I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".

What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?

If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)

In https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221543.aspx Mark says:

Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?

The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions.

If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.

Hope this helps, Graham

Thanks for sharing the link, Graham! That was what I was looking for. Had a couple of other questions answered while reading the posts in the thread you linked.

Michael A. Mnich

Dear Staff,

I am not in favor of subscriptions. If I use one, as soon as I quit, all the work I've done in the past is gone if it was using the subscribed features. I like to own not rent. If new features come out, I would like it if I could buy it and incorporate it on an individual basis. An option to subscribe for a month or two or three could be helpful to see if I would really like to buy it, but if I liked it, I like to buy, rather than keep subscribing. I would be in favor of making decisions on each feature, rather than have to purchase a bundle which would include many features I would not need just to get one or two I did.

I appreciate Logos. That's my two cents.

Mike

Leigh Johnson

I understand that I will not lose all the current features which I own if I do not subscribe. My basic concern is moving forward with subscription based new features. Say I subscribe for several years, receiving a number of new features over that time. As I understand it I will lose those features when I stop subscribing. Will there be a way for people to then purchase those features?

Mark

I understand that I will not lose all the current features which I own if I do not subscribe. My basic concern is moving forward with subscription based new features. Say I subscribe for several years, receiving a number of new features over that time. As I understand it I will lose those features when I stop subscribing. Will there be a way for people to then purchase those features?

As far as I can tell, this question has not yet been answered by FL. They are either not sure what they plan to do or keeping us in the dark on the answer. It seems to be the number one question in the minds of many.

James Newman

I have no problem with subscriptions as a lower cost option for entry or for some specific features like Ai. It might be a great way to get started if you don't already have a large investment in a library.

I am deeply concerned about the thousands of dollars I have put into Logos resources and books trusting they would be around for decades providing at least OS updates. Though I love Logos functions, perhaps it would have been better to have invested more in physical books which don't need the internet, can be easily loaned to others, last almost forever, and can't be made useless.

It would be my hope that there will still be a Logos 11 available for purchase alongside of any subscription alternatives. I am currently trialing the new subscription and find the benefits very underwhelming; that may change or it may already appeal to others.

I am not sure if they could have handled this differently, but like some others have stated, I will not be making many, if any additional purchases until there is clarity in the direction of Logos. I think creating this uncertainty until late in the year is counterproductive.

Mark Davis

I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".

What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?

If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)

If this has already been covered in a forum post, please point me to it. I wasn't able to get much info from the official site except that "If you switch from your existing subscription to Logos Pro, you’d lose some perks, features, and books. Later in the year, we’ll have information about how you can switch while keeping your content and features."

These are the relevant questions IMO, and I don't see them answered anywhere (easily located). I guess I'll have to search the "mega-thread" (gee, only 1252 items/posts to look through!) and see if the answer is in there somewhere as I'd like to give Logos Pro a whirl if the answers are good. This quote from the first page of mega-thread is great, but how do we go about it?: "...you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible."

Barnabas

I feel absolutely horrible about it. Logos should not be subscription only. I am fed up with subscriptions. I've cancelled almost all of mine. They are prohibitively expensive taken together. The subscription model is in and of itself, abusive in character. I'm giving you my feedback which is ENTIRELY negative.

Steven MacDonald

At this point they have promised a perpetual license upgrade on the next version for those who want it. They could still continue to offer both perpetual and a subscription option for those who want it. Microsoft is continuing to do so. BUT, the majority of the Logos customers who are permanent license and not subscription customers, really need to speak up and make their voices heard. They can also decide to not subscribe as well when the time comes. The company can say what it wants, but at the end of the day, if not enough people buy the subscription, they will offer an alternative. I will continue to buy the permanent option as I plan on passing mine on after my death. I may or may not also subscribe to the subscription along with it but that remains to be seen. And yes, the smart option, in my opinion, is to buy the full feature set. It would provide a good stopping point if need be. Just my two cents :-)

John

I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup. If AI cloud junk must be the future of Logos, why not start with the web app? Why ruin a perfectly good standalone desktop app that can run without an internet connection?

MJ. Smith

I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup.

Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)

Factbook tags
Media collections
IgniterMedia.com section
Web resources section
Morph query document
Atlas tool
Bible browser
Media tool
Visual copy

John

Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)

Factbook tags

Media collections

IgniterMedia.com section

Web resources section

Morph query document

Atlas tool

Bible browser

Media tool

Visual copy

I will be sure to NEVER rely on or depend on such features that stop working if an ISP has trouble or a server gets taken out by malware.

If I want to be completely dependent on the internet for everything I would get a $4/month subscription at one of the big Bible websites that now offer numerous study resources (just like Logos is beginning to do with its subscription model). Or I would just use the Logos web app.

What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?

Graham Criddle

What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?

I understand that one of the main reasons was to provide a mechanism for people to access their resources and - some - desktop functionaity when they didn't have a desktop computer capable of running the desktop app.

And some of the features that require a network connection make use of significant computer power that is not available on desktop systems.

MJ. Smith

What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?

I've always thought of it in terms of performance and ability to customize the interface. But I don't know what the corporate considerations were.

Unsichtbar

The survey is very biased. In fact, there is no way to clearly state that you are completely against the subscription model and are certain that the company will be able to survive economically without a subscription model. It is pretended that there is no (economic) alternative to a subscription model - and that is simply a lie, as many companies prove that it is possible without a subscription model.

If you don't want to hear people's honest opinions, please don't ask. It annoys me even more this way, I'm already annoyed that you want to go this route at any price. If there was an alternative to Logos, I'd be gone - and I am also gone as a customer as soon as there is one. I have invested (ten-)thousands of euros in my library and have always been happy with Logos - and now greed is taking over and everything is going downhill (for me).

To make it clear once again: I don't want to pay a lifetime rental fee! I want to purchase a (lifelong) license, and I am (more or less) happy to pay a suitable, high amount for it. I only want to pay for features when things are finally implemented that I can actually use (my suggestions are basically ignored (no, I'm not going to say which ones again, I've done it several times, even after being asked, and it never did any good), but hey, the main things are darkmode and "only on our servers working"-reference library and web app and mobile app and AI XYZ... *grmpf*).

Rick Ausdahl

I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup.

Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)

Factbook tags

Media collections

IgniterMedia.com section

Web resources section

Morph query document

Atlas tool

Bible browser

Media tool

Visual copy

Thanks for posting this MJ. Where does one find this info?

I knew an internet connection was required to use the Atlas tool (which has always been a disappointment to me), but a few others like the Media tool and collections, Bible browser, and Factbook tags surprised me. I thought most of these things were only dependent on datasets, which I thought are stored on my PC. And just to clarify, is the Factbook completely dependent on the tags you noted? I.e. is it useless without them?

Aaron Hamilton

To make it clear once again: I don't want to pay a lifetime rental fee! I want to purchase a (lifelong) license, and I am (more or less) happy to pay a suitable, high amount for it.

With the recent announcement, it has become clear that those who want to purchase a permanent license can do so by purchasing a two-year subscription and immediately canceling auto-renewal, provided you already own L10. Through the Legacy Fallback License you will retain ownership of all non-AI/Cloud features, including the ones released in the two years in which you are subscribed. You can repeat this process every time you would like a feature update.

Graham Criddle

Where does one find this info?

An Inline Search for Net in the helpfile is a good way of seeing this

And just to clarify, is the Factbook completely dependent on the tags you noted? I.e. is it useless without them?

No, the Factbook itself works fine without a network connection. Factbook tags is a part of Factbook functionality - and does require a network connection to sync information shared by different users.