Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

It's certainly true that Logos Pro does not include all the features that are currently available in Connect Essentials.

However, there will be a migration path for all our existing subscribers. Several years ago, we announced a migration plan from Logos Now to Connect, which would have forced users to either lose their features or pay double the amount. Rightly, we quickly reverted that decision. We are not going to repeat that mistake this time.

That said, we have many different subscriptions, so setting out the migration path for each one will take a little while. We'll get it done before the new subscriptions launch in the fall.

Thanks Mark. I was a Logos Now subscriber and transitioned to Connect Essentials when that all went down. As a result, I never felt the need to purchase the Full Feature Set as each new version of Logos was released. 

The difficulty for me at present is determining whether it makes sense to purchase the Full Feature Set or just continue with the status quo. I currently have a Connect Essentials subscription through 1/30/2025 and I am planning on signing up for the Logos Pro trial. 

Like Tes earlier in this thread, I am finding it difficult to make an informed and cost conscious decision. Perhaps that isn't possible until the tiers and applicable pricing are better defined.

The problem I’ve always had with Logos is that, for all the money I’ve spent, I don’t really own anything.  Unless I update my program every once in awhile, or pay for a monthly subscription, I can’t access what I’ve purchased.  I spent money on both Biblesoft and QuickVerse and have nothing to show for it.  

I’m not saying Logos is going out of business.  If they did, however, I would be left with nothing.  I know people are saying Logos is not going away.  But statements about them having to go to subscriptions for financial reasons, doesn’t give me great assurance.

I’m not a fan of subscriptions.  Especially for books.  I already purchased them.  Why should I have to spend money each month in order to read them?

Mike Binks said:

The worst scenario is that society will have collapsed to such an extent that a paper bible is all that will be available to those who hold the faith and time for study will be severely limited by the need to scavenge for food.

I can see you've not been doing your apocalyptic homework. Any self-respecting Logosian isn't going to go traipsing off looking for food, instead of running just one more passage guide on that last bit of battery power.

Donnie said:

Logos and Verbum (and your books can be read in either), why not expand those to include others geared towards other academic disciplines?

They more-or-less already tried this. It was called NOET and it did not work out for them. The Noet app was a scaled down version of Logos. All of the resources from the old Noet site could (and still can) be used by the regular Logos app.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/182745.aspx 

WOW, I did not get any notice of this issue. I am a very engaged user of Logos 10 with more than 17,000 resources. I only found this thread because someone posted in MP SEMINARS.

I have not changed my email address or anything else on my account. 

I have a lot of catch up but maybe not in time to make an informed decision.

This is very disturbing. I don't want to lose my access to $25,000 worth of investment.

Alan Hart said:

WOW, I did not get any notice of this issue. I am a very engaged user of Logos 10 with more than 17,000 resources. I only found this thread because someone posted in MP SEMINARS.

I have not changed my email address or anything else on my account. 

I have a lot of catch up but maybe not in time to make an informed decision.

This is very disturbing. I don't want to lose my access to $25,000 worth of investment.

Alan: see the post above yours.  Click survey.  See Question 2.  There are 2 posts by Mark Barnes you can read to find out what's up.

You can exit the survey without filling it out by using your browser's 'X.'

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Frank Sauer said:

One thing I haven't really seen addressed, or possibly missed it - what does this proposed change do for Beta testers?

I will NOT subscribe, but have looked at the books that would be gained - little interest, especially starting at $9.99 a month...

So looking at those with larger libraries and the Logos 10 Feature Set (which gives the discounted price from my understanding) - Logos is now basically going to be a paid Beta test? As new features were always in the Beta testing period for free, which allowed users to try them out to see if they were worth the purchase when released to stable....

Is free access to the new features during Beta also going away?

It has been very rare for us to give free access to a feature during public beta testing. We typically only did so before a major release for private beta and alpha testing.

Under the subscription model, we're more likely to give free access to a feature during public beta testing, not less. Right now, beta testers are able to test search, Insights, and the new Applications Sermon Assistant, even if they are not subscribers (although for Sermon Assistant, you will need your own license to Sermon Builder). Instructions for getting access are in the release notes.

That policy may change over time, but it's likely to continue at least during early access.

The private beta is what I was referring to, maybe I should have made that more clear. I guess the question also applies to public beta and the improvement of features as well.

The description of the subscription model just seems to sound like a morphed combo of the public and private beta that users will be paying a fee to use.

Trying to see how the new features are released on the fly without beta use. That is the area that I hadn't seen addressed.

Aaron Hamilton said:

Frank Sauer said:

Trying to see how the new features are released on the fly without beta use.

They will not be released on the fly without beta use. Mark addressed this idea in his original post on this thread. If early access features are beta-tested, surely features released in the full subscription model will be as well...

"Is early access to Logos Pro a beta program?

No. Each feature is beta-tested before it becomes part of Logos Pro. The purpose of early access is not for testing—it’s so that you can enjoy these new and improved features without waiting for the major release in the fall."

But is that only for this release? I am asking going forward.... Mark's response to my question even states it may change... So, what you quoted may apply to the release coming this fall, I am asking about beyond that 

Rather unfortunate for me. I am not a teacher, preacher, student but regular church attender and Deacon that likes to dive deep in things and have the tools to do so. I understand I will "always" be able to access the large library I bought but it seems like I will not see any more features once this releases. I did not mind paying for upgrade occasionally but a monthly bill for someone like me in order to get new software features (don't care about the AI stuff) does not make sense.

Subscriptions are and have been all the rage. Steady monthly income, keeping customers on the hook may make business sense.  Eventually, consumers will rebel...

I have a pre-order that I am now strongly considering cancelling only because I know, from experience, that eventually access to old things will become a problem.

As with many of the posters here, I have been a Logos user since LIbronix days and have been along for the ride through Logos Now, and all of the introductions and new features created since then. As a reality check - the computer upon which my first version of LIbronix was installed has long since been recycled. I still have the 6 1/2" floppy drives it came on. But I no longer have a machine that can read them or a device to plug into a current machine to utilize what is on them. Technology is ever changing. Business models change and evolve. While I am not fully on board with this change, like so many have already stated, subscriptions are the way software is now being developed and rolled out. 

I think I need to wait and see what the fall brings. Some things I would like to see: I would like to see AI separated out as a tier to purchase. Given the info rolled out so far, I am not sure that is possible. I do not like the idea of temporary books. Let me purchase what I need and want, when I need and want them. And if temporary books are a thing, make it easy to purchase them or increase the price a bit and allow us to choose what books we want. Please, be clear about tiers and pricing. In a professional setting, annual subs are much easier to deal with. And clear definitions are vital.

Specific question regarding "credits": I see a post where credits are defined as "thousands per month" as a general and vague descriptor. This is new. I understand that. But, depending on how many there are and how long it takes to use them, can unused "credits" flow to the next billing period? Even a percentage of them? 

I do have to say that I was a subscriber to Logos Now. I chose not to continue it. I am generally not fond of software subscriptions, but I am aware that the market is moving that way. Logos has to get on the boat or be left behind. I do not want that. I want the company to succeed, be able to hire and pay well, good, talented people and be able to prosper. Part of what I see in these forums is reaction to yet more change. After and during a period of intense and in many cases unwanted change. Logos has to be feeling some of that too. 

I suggest we all take a breath. Lets see what happens next.

Thanks for reaching this far.

Mark Barnes (Logos) said:

Frank Hodges said:

Mark, One question I would have is which perks us connect users will be losing. Will we lose the 2% cash back, course access, Faithlife TV, and three free classics each month? If this is the case, I would implore Logos to please implement a plan where we can still access courses monthly. This, rather than the feature sets and added books, are a main reason for subscribing for many I would presume. Please take this into consideration.

Thanks for the feedback. We haven't landed on what perks we'll include with the subscriptions in the fall. It's useful to hear what perks have the most value to you.

My favourites are 2% cashback, Mobile Ed, and the (now defunct) one free Lexham Press book.

Frank Hodges said:

Dave Hooton said:

At present, the path for new users would be https://www.logos.com/free-edition and/or taking advantage of the discount on base packages, not creating a temporary "Connect" tier when future pricing is not finalised.  I think Marketing would not mind at all, but new users may have a different take on such a speculative scheme.

I didn't necessarily mean for them to create a new tier for Connect during the interim, rather I meant for them to continue with at least one Connect tier (I would assume Essentials would make the most sense) until the rollout in Fall as to not leave any prospects on the table. Granted, there's not another Bible study software that offers a subscription which is comparable to Logos, so it is a niche market to begin with. But if it were me, I would want to acquire all prospects I can during the interim. 

My Logos Now subscription is up for renewal in May but it looks like the new subscription model will only be available later in the Fall. It is unclear to me what to do in May, if I should renew my Logos Now subscription or switch to Logos Pro.

Dave Hooton said:

Sorry Brian, but concrete is not available

Ok, I can live without the concrete.

The minimum for me, having spent so much money on Logos over many years is:

1. I don't need new features, but must retain ongoing access to existing features (in addition, I should really be able to buy new features)

2. I should be able to buy new books and for them to be fully compatible / integrated into my existing library and feature set.

3. It should be updated / upgradeable (at reasonable cost) to ensure full compatibility with newer versions of operating systems (or to add features).

4. The software should be updated for bug-fixes.

My fear is that in 3 ~ 5 years, loyal users who've spent thousands on Verbum / Logos, will be told their version of the product is now unsupported and will not be updated for OS changes or bug fixes, nor will they be able to buy additional books because "the underlying database structure / book format has changed".

I am a prison chaplain, earning a fraction of what I used to, and approaching retirement age. I am genuinely worried that my significant investment in Logos will turn out to be the equivalent of an electronic door-stop.

In the past I have splashed out to buy full versions of Photoshop, Music Notation Software etc - just to dabble with them and I had the spare cash at the time. I could never justify, and never did pay for subscriptions to them when their pricing models changed. I just stopped using them. There must be a body of users like me out there who value an ownership model. Verbum / Logos is different: I use it extensively, but again, a one off purchase when I had the cash, or occasional upgrade without ongoing subscription, I can handle. A subscription I can't.

I'm hoping Logos has an ethos consistent with its faith-based product and in good conscience will not let our investment go to waste.

Mike Binks: "As the programme has been upgraded for free for the whole life of the company what makes you think this is going to change?"

Sorry, I can't resist... one thing that might prompt such a thought is that Logos is no longer majority owned by people with a heart for ministry and the service of God's Kingdom. The majority shareholder is a VENTURE CAPITAL company which, I presume, has a somewhat different set of priorities, not least being to maximize the bottom line. This alone leads one to fear that thing might indeed change, and perhaps already are.

Mike Binks said:

Greetings Brian

Brian said:

1. I don't need new features, but must retain ongoing access to existing features

I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that Logos is changing its promise that you will always have access to everything you have paid for.

Brian said:

2. I should be able to buy new books and for them to be fully compatible / integrated into my existing library and feature set.

I cannot envisage a scenario that would involve Logos removing the option to buy resources. I would think that it will take many years before the technology develops to a state that new resources become incompatible with existing features - when that happens, based on your experience over the years of dealing with Logos how do you think the company will react to a much smaller very elderly group who need updates?

Brian said:

3. It should be updated / upgradeable (at reasonable cost) to ensure full compatibility with newer versions of operating systems (or to add features).

Brian said:

4. The software should be updated for bug-fixes.

As the programme has been upgraded for free for the whole life of the company what makes you think this is going to change?

Mike Binks said:

quote user="Brian"]1. I don't need new features, but must retain ongoing access to existing features

I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that Logos is changing its promise that you will always have access to everything you have paid for.

Brian said:

The uneasiness comes from experience with other software companies and their products. Over the years I bought several MS Office licenses. None of them are any good now. Now you have to subscribe to it. Once your subscription expires, you lose the use of the software, regardless of how many past licenses or upgrades you bought. And as Peter_G noted, there is also reason to suspect that the change in ownership of the company may result in major policy changes that are geared to maximize revenue over other things.

As to the question "... what makes you think this is going to change?", the company's statement that from now on, new versions of Logos will be offered only on a subscription basis is what makes people think that. Mark Barnes' original post said "Later this year, we’ll launch the next version of Logos as a subscription. The subscription will have several tiers and eventually replace Preaching Suite, Faithlife Connect, and other Logos feature sets. ... Subscriptions aren’t required to maintain access to your existing content. They’re for those who want access to new and improved features. With Logos, your content investment is always safe, and you’ll always be able to access it for free."

Here's the thing: I own the full feature upgrade for Logos, and if I understand the original announcement correctly, I may well lose some of those features in the future unless I subscribe. And yes, I understand that "you'll always be able to access it for free" -- but only with reduced or minimum functionality?

I've already voiced my objection to Logos heading into AI. I just don't think it has a place in Biblical Studies (or the Liberal Arts, for that matter). I feel I am being put into a position that I will be forced to subscribe to Logos (with the AI feature) if I just want to continue to use the software at the level I now have (since some feature sets will be lost unless I subscribe).

David McClister said:

Here's the thing: I own the full feature upgrade for Logos, and if I understand the original announcement correctly, I may well lose some of those features in the future unless I subscribe. And yes, I understand that "you'll always be able to access it for free" -- but only with reduced or minimum functionality?

I've already voiced my objection to Logos heading into AI. I just don't think it has a place in Biblical Studies (or the Liberal Arts, for that matter). I feel I am being put into a position that I will be forced to subscribe to Logos (with the AI feature) if I just want to continue to use the software at the level I now have (since some feature sets will be lost unless I subscribe).

Agree, but people keep saying 'new' features will be subscription. More correct, 'new to you' features. That's why, if one wants to not subscribe, buying 'now' is the answer .. presuming one wants a current feature. And L10 is on sale 25% off in April.

Regarding 'AI' I guess I have to wonder. It seems, the simpler the book presentation, the easier the AI 'accuracy'. I'm reading a book now, that I'd hate to even summarize a sentence, much less a chapter or whole book. And I don't need simple summaries, since I buy authors research.

I see some great potential in this offering. I do have some questions I hoped you might be able to clarify:

• I have the annual Faithlife Connect subscription, which is valid until 2025. Is the Logos Pro early access considered a supplemental subscription or a replacement one? 
• With the different set of books offered, will I lose access to the books I have been "renting" these past years?
• How will the subscription price be affected by any books or resources I have purchased outright while using Faithlife Connect?
• If I enroll in the early access trial, will I lose access to features included in the Faithlife Connect subscription for which I have already paid?
• Do you have a complete list of the features I would lose by using Logos Pro to help me determine whether it makes financial sense to use Logos Pro before my current subscription ends?

Thank you.

For those of us that will not be subscribing - I was just informed by Customer Service that as of now we will be waiting until Fall to find out if we will be offered the option to own Logos versions going forward.....

So, they lost my purchases I was looking at from March Madness, the April Sale had a few and now, I will not bother looking at anything resource wise going forward.

For a company so concerned about revenue, they seem to care less about the number of us that have made it clear that we will not be purchasing anything, have cancelled pre pubs, etc - until we have the guarantee that we will continue to have the traditional option of purchase going forward.....

Time to check out the conversion sale on the other website that has been generated specifically in response to the number of users upset with the subscription option.... It was good while it lasted - but the days of care for long term customers is gone IMHO.... I remember getting contacted by Bob, Dan or Phil if something even smelled of frustration in a forum post - now..... Well - no more presentations encouraging potential customers of the benefit of Logos over other options - I'll never promote a subscription only option.