LOGOS on arm (Surface Pro 11)
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Remember when we put a WinRT app up on Community Pricing? Good times.
[Y][Y] - a good reminder that MY needs may not represent the larger Logos community
In https://community.logos.com/forums/t/224158.aspx some are just learning about Faithlife Study Bible, Proclaim Signals, and the Social Media experiment known as Faithlife groups. I'm intrigued that users are requesting features that Faithlife has already attempted. Are the users new? Did they not get the marketing that I received? "Some" complain about "aggressive marketing" then act shocked that they didn't know about something that was done months prior! Welcome to Pastoring! We announce and print information, then congregants say "I didn't know that"
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = Logos10 on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet) & FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.
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That’s a good example of how the ground is always shifting in technology. WinRT was Microsoft’s first attempt at having Windows on ARM processors. The problem with WinRT is that it was essentially a completely different version of Windows, and required software specifically designed to run on that platform. It could not run x86 programs, which represented basically all Windows programs at the time. Due to all the limitations inherent in Windows RT, consumer adoption was poor, and MS eventually killed it off. Given that few Windows users adopted WinRT, the subset who were also Logos users was even smaller, and the confusion around the community pricing model resulted in it not getting any traction.
Microsoft tried ARM again with the Surface Pro X. The original model also suffered from application compatibility issues, but the next version improved that tremendously. With the latest release of the Surface Pro 11 and Surface Laptop 7, it seems like they’ve finally turned the corner, at least in terms of the PRISM emulation layer and Windows being a native ARM version. I haven’t experienced any issues with Logos on the SL7 yet, but I’m sure I will at some point.
If this is finally the step that will get Windows on ARM into the mainstream, then it’ll be worth supporting with the development of native versions of software. However, Intel and AMD will certainly fight with updated chips of their own, so it’s unclear how this is all going to play out. Apple benefited from controlling everything and just mandating the new ARM chips. Windows is much more difficult.
I hope for a native ARM version of Logos one day, but I really understand how difficult this decision is right now. God bless you all as you seek to figure this out.
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The problem with WinRT is that it was essentially a completely different version of Windows, and required software specifically designed to run on that platform.
I know on Windows ARM for the Mac, it's a different version of Windows still - and there is still software that won't run on it - specially in the games area, notable Windows games like Fortnite, Half Life, League of Legends, Microsoft Solitaire Collection, and NBA 2K24 won't run on it. I run Parallels on my Mac for some Windows-only apps I need, and that took a little while to get running on ARM - Windows 10 for example, was not fully supported (not really supported at all by MS, never has been).
Win x86 won't run either on ARM, and the ARM on Surface has a new emulation solution inside Windows to run older Win apps. So compatibility will probably always be an issue yet will get better over time.
As I have said before, having Logos/Verbum for Mac that's native on and ARM chip set should help a lot - the Mac SoC (System on a chip - CPU and supporting hardware) is different than Qualcomm's, but very close in instruction set I believe.
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I was one of the first to purchase a Microsoft ARM chip used on the on the Surface Pro X2. I attempted to run the version of Logos available at that time on that laptop and it failed miserably. It installed but took an extremely long time to do so. After installation, it would then take a very long time to load each time I went to use it. After loading, it was choppy, sluggish, and, basically, unusable. To use Logos on that 2-in-1, I had to revert to using the web version of Logos only. Unless Microsoft's emulator has had drastic improvements on its Surface Pro 11, I am not making that mistake again and not going to dish out $1,500 for the best processor and RAM needed.
To be fair, it was not Logos' fault it did not run nice on that laptop. It was simply the emulator was horrible and could not handle it. Really, no non-ARM apps ran nicely. Apple's Rosetta emulator never had an issue and ran it as fast as a native app, even on Apple's first M1 chip. Like many have said on this forum, running it on a Mac can't be beat.
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