CEO Bill McCarthy on Launch Perks
Comments
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Hi Mark,
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:It's much better for you to pay for two years of the subscription up front* and then immediately cancel the autorenewal. That way, you get all the benefits of the fallback license PLUS two years' worth of additional subscription perks and benefits for no additional cost.
* I'm not 100% sure we'll be able to offer paying two years upfront because our subscription engine doesn't support that yet, but we're hoping to make that possible by launch. It will certainly be possible to pay for one year upfront.
Thank you for helping me understand what I'm buying into. I've subscribed to the Max version, trusting your word that early adopters will pay no more for year two of their subscription than for year one.
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Bill,
Thank you so much for the update! I have found the tools within Logos Pro to be very beneficial in helping me as I prepare lessons and sermons. While I have historically used Microsoft Word for my sermon prep, I delved into the Sermon Assistant while writing my last sermon. I was very pleased with the help I received and the general ideas that I could then expand upon as I wrote my message. I am very excited indeed for the future of Logos and its value in my studies.
I am very excited as well about the Legacy Fallback License. I tend to use the payment plan every two years to update Logos versions. The Legacy Fallback License is comparable to using the payment plan, at least for me at any rate. Either way, I get the newest version of Logos, paid for over a length of time. The great thing about the subscription though, is that I get updates to Logos far quicker than just every two years.
Thanks again!
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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Hi Bill/Mark.
Thanks for bringing things closer to something I can live with. With the fallback option now clarified to some degree and a better understanding of the pricing, I subscribed to Logos Max today and used the annual option. I am trusting that you keep your word with new features, the fallback etc.
I want to have every possible option available for original language studies and I think the $12.99 for Logos Max is fair.
With the new features, I want to see new desktop features, not just cloud and AI.
I very much, as you know, vocally expressed my concern over the fallback option, but as long as I see the value proposition in new features, I will continue to subscribe every year.
Thanks!
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Don Awalt said:
I feel sorry for Logos on this one, trying to navigate forward for the good of their business and customers. This thread has been disheartening and frustrating to read, and it took me a day or so to figure out why.
I think this thread shows that whatever they attempt to say, and in whatever means they attempt to say it, and how many times and in how many ways they attempt to say it, it's just not good enough - people still take issue with how they said it or some nuance of interpretation. The amount of repetition and regurgitation of issues is dizzying imho. The more communication there is, the more contentious some of the posts get.
For Logos' sake I hope they offer their programs soon (I know it will be Sept or so) - then let the programs speak for themselves and people can decide what they want to do. I for one think their heart is in the right place, and their track record shows that once things are in place if something is broken or unfair they will fix it if at all possible. I trust in that.
I've been offline for a few weeks and am just getting caught up on things. I just took time to read the entire thread to make sure I understand it before responding. Don, your post was a great summary how I think we should all view the current developments in Logos. I agree with you and trust that Logos will work things out in the long run. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being and, in the meantime, continue to simply enjoy the amazing experience of using this phenomenal software system for studying the Bible and faith in general.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I too would like to see a two year option where I can pay in advance and make it easy to see where I stand with fallback option in case I need to or decide to discontinue at some point. I sincerely hope I won't need or want to discontinue though :-)
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Steven MacDonald said:
I too would like to see a two year option where I can pay in advance and make it easy to see where I stand with fallback option in case I need to or decide to discontinue at some point. I sincerely hope I won't need or want to discontinue though :-)
What is the concept of the two years option?
Blessings in Christ.
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Bruce Dunning said:
trust that Logos will work things out in the long run.
L needs to know we are watching. They know we are watching by us sharing our concerns.
We who share our concerns wonder if they take us into consideration in the details, in the fine granularity needed so all people and all situations have a fair hearing by L.
You who share very little/nothing re concerns reap the benefit of those who brought up this + that + the other.
Bruce, look at the Search cluster-mess. It was a bad roll out. We who spoke up said 'whoa,' you, L, can do better. The better benefits all.
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That would simply be an option to pay two years up front for convenience. and savings. Also, with the 24 month fallback cycle it would make it easier to see where I stand as far as if I stop my subscription, do I get to keep the new non-AI and Cloud features. There is currently now a yearly option but the two year option could be attractive to both us and Logos.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:DAL said:
So, how come only a few have been offered the $12.99 Logos Max subscription early adopter’s price? I, too, own the L10 full features set and previous versions full features sets also. I got on board with Logos Pro to support the new subscription model, but now it turns out others are getting “early access” to a higher tier subscription for less.
Cross-posting from another thread for maximum visibility:
I apologise. There is a bug which we are actively fixing that means that existing early access subscribers see the full price rather than the discounted price. Apparently, it's a pretty gnarly bug and it might take several days to fix. In the meantime, if you call in or email, our support representatives will be able to help out.
Mark
Please let us know when the bug is fixed. I also am a subscriber to both Pro Early Access and Connect. I did not get an email about a discount and the price seen for the subscriptions is still full price.
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Steven MacDonald said:
With the new features, I want to see new desktop features, not just cloud and AI.
THIS!!! Features that can be used without an internet connection would be nice - though in honesty when speaking with one of the Logos Team, I did express beyond improvements, what more could be added - since the application is already quite robust.... Maybe a thread with desired non-AI, non-cloud features is needed for ideas in development.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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That is a great idea. AI cannot be the only addition. I am sure I will have things to add to the list. And I want them to be clear what will features will stay with the fallback and which ones won't. I still want more detail regarding the "cloud" features as that took me by surprise.
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Mark when you have signed up for Logos Pro but have canceled the subscription as I am not in need to prepare sermons, I am not able to join Premium or Max. Is this the way it should work. I am only able to resubscribe to Pro but cant choose any other option.
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Steven MacDonald said:
That is a great idea. AI cannot be the only addition. I am sure I will have things to add to the list. And I want them to be clear what will features will stay with the fallback and which ones won't. I still want more detail regarding the "cloud" features as that took me by surprise.
Thread Started - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/223627/1303047.aspx#1303047
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Lukas said:
Mark when you have signed up for Logos Pro but have canceled the subscription as I am not in need to prepare sermons, I am not able to join Premium or Max. Is this the way it should work. I am only able to resubscribe to Pro but cant choose any other option.
Not speaking for Logos - but based on my experience with another service - is your subscription date expired? If you have cancelled but still have time left before the subscription expires, I wonder if the system won't allow changing until that date passes - that's what I dealt with elsewhere. Once the expiration date passed I was able to change. Either way, sounds like a system glitch or limitation.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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The more information that comes out, the more confusing this whole mess becomes. Clarity seems to have gone AWOL.
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Two years is how long you need to have a continuous subscription in order to have the fallback option. You will get to keep the latest version of the software minus cloud and AI features.
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Steven MacDonald said:
Two years is how long you need to have a continuous subscription in order to have the fallback option. You will get to keep the latest version of the software minus cloud and AI features.
That's still not clear. Is it minus ALL cloud and AI features (including those you owned already in Logos 10 at the time you started subscribing), or just minus the cloud and AI features that were added over the two years that you were subscribing?
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Per Mark Barnes:
Regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you will keep features you've already paid for.
The fallback license will allow you to additionally keep any features you haven't previously paid for but were in the subscription (except Cloud/AI features).
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:NichtnurBibellleser said:
Do the months of current subscription to Logos Pro (early access) since April 2024 count in to the “24 months”?
I asked that question myself yesterday. I don't know the answer yet.
The qualifying period starts when you begin your subscription or free trial. That said, the Legacy Fallback Licence won't be available until October 2026. After 24 consecutive months, you'll be eligible to receive the Legacy Fallback License associated with your subscription tier, but you might not actually receive it until October 2026. (Your eligibility won't be impacted if you cancel after 24 months but before October.)
For example: if you subscribed to Logos Pro (early access) via a 30-day free trial on June 1, 2024, after renewing on May 1, 2026 (your 24th consecutive month), you will receive the license in October 2026 as soon as it is available.0 -
Dave Hooton said:
From all this is it clear that a Logos 10 Silver owner would retain access to all features in the subscription (with exceptions as stated) after 24 months i.e. L10 Full + subsequent features, AND would be on the same discount level as those who "own Logos 10" (not being a new customer)?
You will only get a fallback license to features you've been subscribing to. So a user on Logos Pro won't get all the features in the L10 full featureset in their fallback license, but a user on Logos Max would (minus cloud/AI features, of course).
Eligibility for discounts will very likely depend on what level of L10 you own. For example, it's unlikely to be possible to buy Logos 10 Starter, and then lock in a discount on Logos Max. So, I'm not yet able to confirm that ownership of Logos 10 Silver would be enough to lock in a discount to get Logos Max for $12.99. We'll have more to say about that in the coming weeks.
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Lukas said:
Thank you Dave, but it seems that if you previously tried the pro you are not able to try other options as yet. Seems I am stuck with pro option only until it finally release.
We're hoping up/downgrades will be possible late this week or next week. We're working on it!
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John said:
What happens if a person does not sign up now? Does "early access" price go away?
The "early access" program will come to an end when the subscription launches in the fall. However, the discount pricing for L10 owners will extend beyond early access. It's unlikely to be available indefinitely, but we will give plenty of notice if it should get withdrawn for new upgraders.
John said:Since I own Logos 10 with all features, is there any advantage to paying more for a higher tier? It appears to me that the only thing I gain with any of these is AI search. It speaks of other "cloud based features" but I am not aware that any such features exist ...
We're adding and improving features all the time. Currently, the subscriptions include:
- Smart Search
- Summarization
- Sermon Assistant (Logos Pro and Logos Max only)
- Insights Sidebar
- Help Center (currently in beta)
But every six to twelve weeks or so, we will add or improve subscription features.
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Steven MacDonald said:
Since the clock apparently hasn't started on the 24 months for the fallback period during this "preview" time, can you tell me when I should subscribe to start the 24-month period? Will it be the official rollout date?
The qualifying period starts when you begin your subscription or free trial, although there's an important caveat in the linked post if you subscribe during early access.
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scooter said:
L needs to know we are watching. They know we are watching by us sharing our concerns.
We who share our concerns wonder if they take us into consideration in the details, in the fine granularity needed so all people and all situations have a fair hearing by L.
You who share very little/nothing re concerns reap the benefit of those who brought up this + that + the other.
Bruce, look at the Search cluster-mess. It was a bad roll out. We who spoke up said 'whoa,' you, L, can do better. The better benefits all.
FWIW, I completely agree with this.
The whole reason we went with the Early Access program instead of just launching the thing in the fall was so that we could listen to conversations like these.
I know a slow rollout can be frustrating when we don't yet have all the answers, but these threads have been invaluable in shaping what we do and (hopefully) getting to a solution that works well both for you as customers and for us as a company. (With the caveat that you can't please all the people all the time, of course!)
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Lukas said:
Mark when you have signed up for Logos Pro but have canceled the subscription as I am not in need to prepare sermons, I am not able to join Premium or Max. Is this the way it should work. I am only able to resubscribe to Pro but cant choose any other option.
Has you Pro subscription actually lapsed, or have you just canceled autorenew? Unless we fix the bug preventing proper up/downgrading first, you'll need to wait for your subscription to actually lapse before you can subscribe to another tier.
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Rosie Perera said:Steven MacDonald said:
Two years is how long you need to have a continuous subscription in order to have the fallback option. You will get to keep the latest version of the software minus cloud and AI features.
That's still not clear. Is it minus ALL cloud and AI features (including those you owned already in Logos 10 at the time you started subscribing), or just minus the cloud and AI features that were added over the two years that you were subscribing?
A fallback license will include both new and existing features.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
But every six to twelve weeks or so, we will add or improve subscription features.
So it does not appear that any substantial effort will continue to be made to improve/update/add to the desktop program non-cloud non-subscription features ... all of the focus will be on new AI/cloud features ... even if they duplicate existing offline functionality ... the focus has now shifted away from making the best desktop Bible research program, to being the first to cram AI and cloud features into the product.
Is that correct?
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Rosie Perera said:Steven MacDonald said:
Two years is how long you need to have a continuous subscription in order to have the fallback option. You will get to keep the latest version of the software minus cloud and AI features.
That's still not clear. Is it minus ALL cloud and AI features (including those you owned already in Logos 10 at the time you started subscribing), or just minus the cloud and AI features that were added over the two years that you were subscribing?
The cloud features in L10 that I have paid to have permanent access cannot be taken away from me whether I subscribe or not. That is plain cheating and fraud. Logos dare not go down that road. Class action lawsuit will surely follow.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Mark,
Why the subscribers of Logos Connect have to pay 350 for Max and where those who paid full of full feature pay much less? I always consider day-1-faithlife-connect and those who paid in full are equal? Is there a better deal for Connect subscribers?
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mike said:
Mark,
Why the subscribers of Logos Connect have to pay 350 for Max and where those who paid full of full feature pay much less? I always consider day-1-faithlife-connect and those who paid in full are equal? Is there a better deal for Connect subscribers?
I would give up on this. I’ve asked several questions about Connect and gotten few answers except we are working on it. Why we were left behind is a mystery to me. Another question I thought of is what happens to our 2%. Do they give some at that rate and then 5% when we convert??
i wonder if the free ebook went the way of the dodo
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"$12.99/month or $129.90/year is the discounted price for Logos Max (discounted for L10 owners and most Connect subscribers)."
Mark Barnes made this direct statement that most Connect users will have the discount as well. He also has said that details are being worked out. So a bit confusing, but clearly an implication that the discount will be available for Connect users.
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Steven MacDonald said:
Per Mark Barnes:
Regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you will keep features you've already paid for.
And it you do not subscribe, you will (continue) to be supported with the current (subscription) version of Logos.
Steven MacDonald said:The fallback license will allow you to additionally keep any features you haven't previously paid for but were in the subscription (except Cloud/AI features).
Logos Help is ambiguous about the Translation sidebar as it suddenly uses AI credits when it still belongs to L10 FFS.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Eligibility for discounts will very likely depend on what level of L10 you own
That is not reflected by statements earlier in this forum i.e. the use of "L10 Owner" by yourself and Bill. And the ambiguity is continued on the subscription page where it appears I will get a full discount on Pro even though I do not own the FFS, but I am not eligible for a Max subscription. Or is that an "Early Access" distinction?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I would like to know the levels of the tier, is it like the following. Pro, Max, Premium or Premium, Pro, Max. It seems also that the my subscription has lapsed as I am unable to resubscribe under subscription tab. But I am still unable to join any of the subscriptions. This all very confusing to me.
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Ok, so when the official launch happens, will I be able to simply call customer service and redo my year subscription? I want to start the clock on day 1 :-)
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John said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
But every six to twelve weeks or so, we will add or improve subscription features.
So it does not appear that any substantial effort will continue to be made to improve/update/add to the desktop program non-cloud non-subscription features ... all of the focus will be on new AI/cloud features ... even if they duplicate existing offline functionality ... the focus has now shifted away from making the best desktop Bible research program, to being the first to cram AI and cloud features into the product.
Is that correct?
That's not at all what I said.
We're committed to ensuring Logos remains the world's most powerful Bible study app. We'll use whatever technology helps us to do that best. Sometimes that will be AI. Sometimes that will be cloud-based (as we've been doing for years, now). Sometimes that will be more traditional technologies. And, no doubt, at some point will use a technology that none of us is currently familiar with.
It's hard to predict the future, but there are lots of features and improvements already in development that don't use AI or the cloud or that use a mix of AI and non-AI technology. Those offline features and improvements will be available to paying subscribers and will be part of the legacy fallback license we recently announced.
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mike said:
Why the subscribers of Logos Connect have to pay 350 for Max and where those who paid full of full feature pay much less? I always consider day-1-faithlife-connect and those who paid in full are equal? Is there a better deal for Connect subscribers?
If you're a current Connect subscriber you should be seeing a discount on Logos Max. Is that not the case?
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Dave Hooton said:
Logos Help is ambiguous about the Translation sidebar as it suddenly uses AI credits when it still belongs to L10 FFS.
There was always a fair use cap on the Translation tool. Very few people hit that cap. As we now have fair use caps on AI as well, we're using the same technology for both translation and other AI features. But otherwise, nothing much has changed.
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John said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
But every six to twelve weeks or so, we will add or improve subscription features.
So it does not appear that any substantial effort will continue to be made to improve/update/add to the desktop program non-cloud non-subscription features ... all of the focus will be on new AI/cloud features ... even if they duplicate existing offline functionality ... the focus has now shifted away from making the best desktop Bible research program, to being the first to cram AI and cloud features into the product.
Is that correct?
That's not at all what I said.
We're committed to ensuring Logos remains the world's most powerful Bible study app. We'll use whatever technology helps us to do that best. Sometimes that will be AI. Sometimes that will be cloud-based (as we've been doing for years, now). Sometimes that will be more traditional technologies. And, no doubt, at some point will use a technology that none of us is currently familiar with.
It's hard to predict the future, but there are lots of features and improvements already in development that don't use AI or the cloud or that use a mix of AI and non-AI technology. Those offline features and improvements will be available to paying subscribers and will be part of the legacy fallback license we recently announced.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Thanks Mark.
I like the sound of that :-)
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Dave Hooton said:
That is not reflected by statements earlier in this forum i.e. the use of "L10 Owner" by yourself and Bill. And the ambiguity is continued on the subscription page where it appears I will get a full discount on Pro even though I do not own the FFS, but I am not eligible for a Max subscription. Or is that an "Early Access" distinction?
Neither Bill nor I have said that all L10 owners (whether that's Starter or Collectors) will receive the same discount as each other on every subscription tier. What we've both said is that all L10 owners will qualify for discounts on a subscription.
We'll say more about what that means in practice in the coming months.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
If you're a current Connect subscriber you should be seeing a discount on Logos Max. Is that not the case?
Mark, I am a Connect subscriber (I pay yearly and am up in August), I own the Logos 10 full-feature set, and subscribe monthly to Logos Pro.
I see no discount.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
Mark, I am a Connect subscriber (I pay yearly and am up in August), I own the Logos 10 full-feature set, and subscribe monthly to Logos Pro.
I see no discount.
If you're a Connect subscriber, you should see the discount.
However, if you're an existing Logos Pro subscriber, you won't see the discount because of a bug we're working on.
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Mark, I have L10 starter, and was offered Pro for $9.99. I then signed up for the trail and stopped the auto renewal as I did not really gain much as a mobile user. So now after I got some comparison on the tiers and saw what the lowest tier will cost me I offers me no discount and I now myst pay $14.99 for premium. If all the options was given from the start I would not have canceled as I could have made a better decision. Now I am not offered to rejoin Pro at $9.99 but $24.99. The communication was not good so we can see what you gain and what you might loose when canceling. I just got an invite to join early access and thats it.
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Lukas,
I was under the impression that one had to own the L10 full feature set to qualify for the $9.99 price. It's possible you slipped in by accident the first time. I may be wrong, but I believe you would have to purchase the full feature set to get in at the discounted price (which I nonetheless would recommend).
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Jon said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We're planning to have two separate price tracks, one for new customers and one for L10 owners. The tracks are priced independently; they have no fixed discount percentage. You will be able to stay on the track you start on, but – as with all subscriptions – the price of the subscription could change over time. If that were to happen, we would decide any price changes on each track independently of those on the other track.
Mark - What about for those with an academic discount though? Wouldn’t you need to have three tiers? Or are academic discounts coming to an end with this transition? Remember, the discounts are for features as well so they would need to be included via a lower monthly subscription price under the proposed “fallback license” model in order to not have a massive price increase for academics.
Bumping this in hopes of getting a response from Mark about what subscription means for the many of us with academic discounts.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Jerry Bush said:
Mark, I am a Connect subscriber (I pay yearly and am up in August), I own the Logos 10 full-feature set, and subscribe monthly to Logos Pro.
I see no discount.
If you're a Connect subscriber, you should see the discount.
However, if you're an existing Logos Pro subscriber, you won't see the discount because of a bug we're working on.
Any update on the bug, Mark?
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
If you're a Connect subscriber, you should see the discount.
However, if you're an existing Logos Pro subscriber, you won't see the discount because of a bug we're working on.
Any update on the bug, Mark?
Also, any update on the Bi-Annual option?
Is a "Features Only" Option being considered? (To continue the historical options of "No Library" Subscriptions and the ability to purchase just the Feature Set)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
If you're a Connect subscriber, you should see the discount.
Hi Mark.
Just to clarify, I am a long time Logos Connect subscriber with a renewal date at the end of August. Should I take this to mean I should go ahead and subscribe to a Logos subscription anytime between now and that renewal date or should I continue waiting as we were previously told to do?Thanks!
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Lukas said:
The communication was not good so we can see what you gain and what you might loose when canceling. I just got an invite to join early access and thats it.
It looks like you contacted us and got this sorted.
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Jon said:
Bumping this in hopes of getting a response from Mark about what subscription means for the many of us with academic discounts.
The details of that are still being figured out, I'm afraid.
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