a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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Jonathan Huber said:Kristin said:
any ideas why Accordance is ignoring this?
Accordance has oude tagged as a conjunction, not a particle, so it doesn't meet the search criteria.
That would explain it.
Interestingly Logos has tagged it as both
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Jonathan Huber said:
Accordance has oude tagged as a conjunction, not a particle, so it doesn't meet the search criteria.
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you. You might have seen, but someone on Accordance said this too. So if I am understanding correctly, to find all double negs in Accordance, I would need to run it for particles, then also for conjunctions?
Graham Criddle said:Interestingly Logos has tagged it as both
Hi Graham, do you mind explaining how you got that info box? Also, trying to find that info box, I accidentally closed everything. [:(] I know I can recreate your search, but before I do, is there a way to access it in History? Also, before I closed it, I actually set it as a favorite, but I am not sure how find it.
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Graham Criddle said:
Interestingly Logos has tagged it as both
Interestingly, it's only tagged as both in the NA28. The UBS5 has it tagged only as a particle, and the LXX doesn't have it tagged as either. What's going on there?
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Hi Kristin
The info box was using the Information Tool. Simply open the tool from the Tools menu and then click the word in the biblical text.
For your other two questions try History and Favorites, also from the Tools menu
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Kristin said:
So if I am understanding correctly, to find all double negs in Accordance, I would need to run it for particles, then also for conjunctions?
I prefer to step back a bit. Accordance and Logos each code to a specific linguistic theory - in Logos there are several linguistic theories, some applying only to one critical edition. You need to decide how you are defining double negative esp. with regards to the particle/conjunction parts of speech. Then, and only then, can one tell how to code to find the data. Remember that the grammar is a model imposed on the text and there are many, many models that fit. True/false do not apply; predictive/explanatory value does.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Graham Criddle said:
The info box was using the Information Tool. Simply open the tool from the Tools menu and then click the word in the biblical text.
Hi Graham,
Thank you.
It took me a minute to figure out since I thought that was info about my search, but now I see it is info on the selected word. Thank you also for clarifying the History and Favorites. I was able to find it. MJ. Smith said:Accordance and Logos each code to a specific linguistic theory -
Hi MJ, thank you for the clarification.
I will try to keep in mind that there might not be pure equivalence for certain functions between the two programs. I think in this case Logos is more helpful for my specific search, actually, since my goal had been to find all double negatives, regardless of why it is a double negative.0 -
MJ. Smith said:
Remember that the grammar is a model imposed on the text and there are many, many models that fit. True/false do not apply; predictive/explanatory value does.
MJ, are the specific models noted for each text noted anywhere?
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I just tried to select all to try to copy, like an Accordance "Reference List." I see I can't do anything in Grid, which is fine, but when I go to Passage and right click, it brings up this "Send to Proclaim" window.
Is there a way to copy all the verses, and likewise, copy all the references?
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Since this thread is turning into a reference for newcomers from Accordance... I just realized that you can select multiple parallel texts but they'll only show when they contain the relevant section, which means that if you check eg both BHS and UBS5, you'll have whichever corresponds to the passage in your English translation. Kinda like Accordance's combined texts, except you could have just the UBS5 for NT and both BHS/LXX for OT. That is very cool.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I just realized that you can select multiple parallel texts but they'll only show when they contain the relevant section, which means that if you check eg both BHS and UBS5, you'll have whichever corresponds to the passage
Hi Jonathan,
Can you explain how you did this? I don#t see an "add parallel" function. I currently have the NA28 open and adding the UBS sounds like a good idea.
Also, you you know how to create an Accordance style "Reference List" from these results?
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Click the down arrow beside the double thick vertical lines. That's the button for multiple book display. Then just search for what you want and check the box. I haven't worked with passage lists enough to answer your second question.
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Jonathan Huber said:
Click the down arrow beside the double thick vertical lines.
Hi Jonathan,
I don't see the double lines. Here is what I see. Am I missing something obvious? You also seem to have other things like the alpha omega symbol, so I think you have a tool bar open or something.
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That’s on a text view. Not a search. Just open a text from the library and you’ll see it.
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Kristin said:
When I did the morph.g:TN WITHIN 1 WORDS morph.g:TN formula it produced 412 hits in 93 verses, while the Accordance Construct produces 100 hits in 91 verses.
An alternative is morph.g:TN THEN morph.g:TN, which produces 102 hits in 93 verses.
THEN counts each pair as one hit.WITHIN is bi-directional so it will count each particle as a hit going forward, and as a hit in the reverse direction.
BEFORE will only count each particle in one direction
In each case note how the triple in Heb 13.5 is counted (use the verse as the Passage in Search).
If you want a list of passages after the Search, go to the Panel menu and select Save as Passage List.
If you can copy the passage/reference results in Accordance, then create a Passage List in Logos:
- Documents menu > New > Passage List; then
- Add menu > ....clipboard
- Compare the PL's via the Merge menu > Difference (do this from the larger List).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Jonathan Huber said:
That’s on a text view. Not a search. Just open a text from the library and you’ll see it.
Hi Jonathan,
Ok, thanks, I found it. I am still kind of confused though, as I know you can do parallels in grid view. Here is a pic Mark Allison posted. Granted, it is in English, but the principle remains and so I am not sure why I can't add the UBS to be alongside it. Here is his pic:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/223994/1306001.aspx#1306001Dave Hooton said:If you can copy the passage/reference results in Accordance, then create a Passage List in Logos:
- Documents menu > New > Passage List; then
- Add menu > ....clipboard
Hi Dave,
Thank you. I was able to get to the point of creating a Passage List. However, I don't see "Add" anywhere.
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Kristin, 'Add', on your new passage list (as you indicated) is to the top, far left ... opposite the Memorize button,
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Kristin, 'Add', on your new passage list (as you indicated) is to the top, far left ... opposite the Memorize button
Hi DMB,
Thank you, I finally see it now. After a few tries I was able to copy all, and it copied all the Greek. It appears that there isn't a "Reference List" equivalent.
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Jonathan Huber said:
Since this thread is turning into a reference for newcomers from Accordance
Yes - but many of the discussions about the use of Logos are relevant to anyone.
I would recommend those wanting to understand how Logos works to ask specific questions in the Logos Desktop forum so each one can be addressed individually which might make it easier for people to find and refer to them.
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Kristin said:
It appears that there isn't a "Reference List" equivalent.
What is a Reference List in Accordance?
Knowing that we might be able to speak about Logos equivalents. From the previous discussion it looked as though a Logos Passage List was somewhat equivalent.
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Frank Jones said:
MJ, are the specific models noted for each text noted anywhere?
It varies but basically one has to infer it by the elements identified in the grammar and syntax.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Passage list in Logos = Reference list in Accordance.
You can save a search to a passage list or create your own passage list under Documents.
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John Fidel said:
Passage list in Logos = Reference list in Accordance.
You can save a search to a passage list or create your own passage list under Documents.
Thanks John, this is the sort of thing that's very helpful for Accordance users to know. In fact, it would be awesome if someone familiar with both apps could create a list of equivalents.
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Graham Criddle said:
Your screenshot is interesting - it suggests, at least to me, that this construct in Accordance is more akin to a Morph Query in Logos - which does use more natural English to define search terms. But it does seen to handle the triple negative case as below
Graham, it looks like the Morph Query is the closest parallel to a construct search in Accordance. Thanks for sharing!
Any idea why you can't search the NA28 with the Morph Query?0 -
Mark Allison said:
Any idea why you can't search the NA28 with the Morph Query?
The search is performed on Logos servers and it is optimized for their in-house Greek and Hebrew bibles (SBLGNT and LHB).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Mark Allison said:
Any idea why you can't search the NA28 with the Morph Query?
The search is performed on Logos servers and it is optimized for their in-house Greek and Hebrew bibles (SBLGNT and LHB).
Thanks for the fast response Dave!
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Dave Hooton said:Mark Allison said:
Any idea why you can't search the NA28 with the Morph Query?
The search is performed on Logos servers and it is optimized for their in-house Greek and Hebrew bibles (SBLGNT and LHB).
I would think that the difference in approach would potentially be frustrating. I wonder what the search would return if you were offline and it could not access the Logos servers?
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Frank Jones said:
I would think that the difference in approach would potentially be frustrating. I wonder what the search would return if you were offline and it could not access the Logos servers?
This is a cloud feature (it requires the Internet). So it would return an error message.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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As a dual platform Logos/Accordance user, I have found parts of this thread fascinating regarding some of the technical differences at a granular level. It is cool to see the platforms put through their paces by fairly demanding users. Nice.
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Mark Allison said:John Fidel said:
Passage list in Logos = Reference list in Accordance.
You can save a search to a passage list or create your own passage list under Documents.
Thanks John, this is the sort of thing that's very helpful for Accordance users to know. In fact, it would be awesome if someone familiar with both apps could create a list of equivalents.
For me the most important comparisons are as follows:
Bible Word Study = Word Study- In Logos I suggest opening a BWS and linking it to a Bible text that has a reverse interlinear. Click on a text in the Bible and BWS populates.
Passage Guide = Info Pane- again, in Logos I suggest linking the Passage Guide to your Bible text so it populates as you move through scripture. if you open a commentary from the PG it will open to the section you are studying, but it will not automatically link, so you don't have your study bible moving around if the commentary has multiple verses referenced.
Information Window = Instant Details- in Logos I have one open for most layouts as it removes the pop ups in the bible text and I have it set to populate on click rather than hover. The Information Window is much more in depth, but can be customized. The translation section is very helpful as it show the english translation for each reverse interlinear text you own. I think if you play with it you will find what your sweet spot is.
MultiView = Bible Texts in the same pane - using multiview allows for you to have an English text and an Original Language Text (or multiple texts) in the same pane. Click on word and it will highlight in the other text.
Open your favorite Lexicon and link it to the bible so it populates whenever you click on a word in the bible.
Open a second Bible and set it to "send searches here" to avoid losing you place of study in your main bible as you click on references from other resources/tools.
This should be a good start. Here are a few screenshots of my layout.
This has the BWS on the left, Bible using multi view with the greek text, linked lexicon also using multi view with 3 lexicons and the information window.
Here is a multi view that has the ESV, BHS, Lxx English and LXX Greek. Note the cross highlighting:
This is a good starting point for duplicating Accordance features and then some.
Let me know if you have questions.
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John Fidel said:
Passage Guide = Info Pane-
Blurring the lines a bit, the new Logos Insights column can also be compared to the Accordance Info Pane.
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