a question from an Accordance User

1. right click λόγος

2. search for the lex
3. discover that the first instance is in Mt 5:32 and copy λόγου.

I don't understand why you couldn't follow the exact same process in Logos.

1) Right click the word

2) Search the Lexicon (Make sure lemma is selected. Again, Logos will remember this selection for next time unless you change it. Find your desired lexicon under "look up" - see Mark's screenshot)

3) Discover the first instance from the information contained in the lexicon and copy the word

requires to go back to the "bible" in a sort of zig-zag for something to be copyable.

Can't you just select "Text" to the right of copy reference? (Again, see Mark's screenshot)

In Logos, can't you right-click on the word, select the lexical form in the popup, and then copy the word? 

For example, if I see "ἀφῆκεν" in the text, I can right-click on it and select the lexical form (ἀφίημι). 

You can also search inline from the lemma menu to create a report in Logos similar to Accordance.  (Otherwise it will open up the morphological search tab.)

See below the two reports - one from Logos, one from Accordance. 330 results in 317 verses.

Clicking on the lemma in Mark's screenshot is taking Kristin to a search pane. Click Inline instead (next option to the right of the lemma marked in blue) and it'll keep you right in the text. 

Clicking on the lemma in Mark's screenshot is taking Kristin to a search pane.

When I say make sure the lemma is selected, I mean make sure that lemma is selected on the left hand side of the context menu.

Clicking on the lemma in Mark's screenshot is taking Kristin to a search pane. Click Inline instead (next option to the right of the lemma marked in blue) and it'll keep you right in the text. 

If I press the lex thing like Mark's screenshot, it brings me to that "search" window. If, by contrast, I click "Inline" it does open the Bible, but it brings me to Jn 1.  The only way I seem to be able to see results prior to Jn 1 is to open that search window where I can't copy.

Clicking on the lemma in Mark's screenshot is taking Kristin to a search pane. Click Inline instead (next option to the right of the lemma marked in blue) and it'll keep you right in the text. 

If I press the lex thing like Mark's screenshot, it brings me to that "search" window. If, by contrast, I click "Inline" it does open the Bible, but it brings me to Jn 1.  The only way I seem to be able to see results prior to Jn 1 is to open that search window where I can't copy.

Hi Kristin

This is just a hypothetical example, but let's say I am in John 1:1 and I notice the word λόγος. I then want to copy the inflected form of the first instance in the entire NT. 

So in Accordance I can:

1. right click λόγος
2. search for the lex
3. discover that the first instance is in Mt 5:32 and copy λόγου.

So in Accordance that is a 3 step process, but to do the same thing in Logos appears to be an 8 step process. 

You could right-click the word, ensure the lemma is selected on the left and run an Inline Search

Then scroll up in the filtered results to the first one and right-click the first result

Ensure selection is selected on the left (to get the inflected form of the word) and click copy on the right

You could right-click the word, ensure the lemma is selected on the left and run an Inline Search

Cool, an inline search is exactly what I wanted! Thanks Graham and Jonathan. 

Then scroll up in the filtered results to the first one and right-click the first result

In Windows, Ctrl + Home will launch you to the first result. 

You could right-click the word, ensure the lemma is selected on the left and run an Inline Search

Hi Graham,

Oh, I think I see. So when I press "inline" it is bringing me back to Jn 1:1 since that is where I am. So I need to press "Inline" then manually scroll up to Mt? Or likewise, if I start in Rev and do Inline, I likewise need to manually scroll though the entire NT back to Mt to find the first instance?

If you have saved layouts and need to frequently update them, a user on another thread (thanks Sam Shelton!) mentioned this cool hack. In the Command box, you can enter "Update active layout" (minus the quotes) and drag the command to your toolbar. It'll create a shortcut you can use to easily update your layouts. Note: I updated the icon by right-clicking on it (thanks Donovan for that!) 

So when I press "inline" it is bringing me back to Jn 1:1 since that is where I am. So I need to press "Inline" then manually scroll up to Mt? Or likewise, if I start in Rev and do Inline, I likewise need to manually scroll though the entire NT back to Mt to find the first instance?

Am I correct in understanding that the reason you were doing a Bible search is because you wanted the first instance to be the first result? True, a Bible search will show you the first occurrence first, while an inline search will keep you where you are. If I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be frustrated that the full array of options do not appear when doing a Bible search, requiring the additional step of clicking into the verse to continue your study. Does this reflect some of your frustration?

To navigate the results of an inline search, you can also use the scroll bar to the right or utilize hotkeys.

So I need to press "Inline" then manually scroll up to Mt?

Pressing Cmd-up arrow will take you to the top of the pane. 

You could right-click the word, ensure the lemma is selected on the left and run an Inline Search

Hi Graham,

Oh, I think I see. So when I press "inline" it is bringing me back to Jn 1:1 since that is where I am. So I need to press "Inline" then manually scroll up to Mt? Or likewise, if I start in Rev and do Inline, I likewise need to manually scroll though the entire NT back to Mt to find the first instance?

Yes - that is correct.

So I need to press "Inline" then manually scroll up to Mt?

Pressing Cmd-up arrow will take you to the top of the pane. 

That's a good point Mark!

If I'm understanding you correctly, you seem to be frustrated that the full array of options do not appear when doing a Bible search, requiring the additional step of clicking into the verse to continue your study. Does this reflect some of your frustration?

Hi Aaron,

Ya, I think a lot of my frustration is that as a general rule Logos requires multiple steps, where Accordance requires one. So you are correct that is kind of annoying that if I want to find the first word of a lex I need to right click, press inline, scroll to the top, THEN copy the word. While in Accordance, by contrast, I right click, search lex, copy.

So while I am vary grateful that the Logos process has been reduced to a 4 step process from an 8 step process, it is nonetheless more steps than I have needed to do for years. Likewise, that "search" window, which does in fact show Mt at the top, is completely useless apart from viewing it like a picture, since the only options are to "Send to Proclaim" or click on the hyperlinked verse which brings me out of the search. 

I think a sort of similar frustration I *think* is user error, but I am not sure. I had tried that OR sentence Graham had listed above, but there was NO WAY to replicate his screenshot. I finally got so tired of writing out that long phrase I simplified it with this example:

I am currently in Rev 1:2. If I go to the search box (which currently says "Revelation 1:1-20" and is using the ESV) and I type Gen 1:1 OR Gen 5:1 and press enter, it auto-snaps back to Rev 1:2. I have found the only way to actually do new searches is to do that "close all" and restart the ESV. Then it reopens in Rev, but from there I can click Gen 1 and it opens.

However, if from there I search Gen 1:1 OR Gen 5:1 and press enter, it does literally nothing.

By contrast, in Accordance I can click the search and type Gen 1:1, Gen 5:1 and enter, and it pulls those to verses. I think the issue in Logos is that is set to a word as opposed to a verse, or something, but again, in Accordance I can click "Gen 1:1" and run my search and then type "Peter" and run it, and it is truly a non-issue and I don't have to re-tell it what I am looking for. Accordance figures out that if I type a verse, I want a verse, and if i type something else, I must want a word. 

Pressing Cmd-up arrow will take you to the top of the pane.

Or with the search active and until you clear the search, you can type in Mat 1:1 or any other reference for that matter.

Yes - that is correct.

Thank you for clarifying. 

Pressing Cmd-up arrow will take you to the top of the pane. 

On a Mac, correct? If I do it does nothing. 

I am currently in Rev 1:2. If I go to the search box (which currently says "Revelation 1:1-20" and is using the ESV)

When you say you have "Revelation 1:1-20" in the search box, are you talking about what I've circled in red in the image below? If so, that's the problem. Whatever reference you type into the reference box (at the top) won't go outside of the range you've searched for. You need to delete your search (click on the magnifying glass button) and then you should be fine. 

Or with the search active and until you clear the search, you can type in Mat 1:1 or any other reference for that matter.

That worked! Thanks!

So right click --> search --> inline --> Mt 1

On a Mac, correct? If I do it does nothing. 

Yes, on a Mac. You need to make sure the pane you want to navigate is active (by clicking anywhere in it). Then Cmd-↑ will take you to the top of the screen and Cmd-↓ will take you to the bottom.

Don't forget to explore the up load or whatever button next to the analysis... from there you can send the search to the full search panel, but in this case you are probably most interested in the passage list document.

Likewise, that "search" window, which does in fact show Mt at the top, is completely useless apart from viewing it like a picture, since the only options are to "Send to Proclaim" or click on the hyperlinked verse which brings me out of the search. 

It is true that the primary purpose of the search tool is to locate information so that you can jump to the resource at that location. When doing a Bible search within the search tool, however, you do have access to many more options than just clicking the link or sending to proclaim. To see these options you must right click the search result at the searched-for word/phrase (where you would click to follow the link). The context menu will pop up. On the left side of the context menu, you will see the Bible reference (Take note, the left side of the context menu is important. It reveals additional options on the right side). Click on the Bible reference. Now you will see some options. Certainly not the full array of options that Logos makes available, but a few options nonetheless.

Yes, on a Mac. You need to make sure the pane you want to navigate is active (by clicking anywhere in it). Then Cmd-↑ will take you to the top of the screen and Cmd-↓ will take you to the bottom.

Hi Mark,

Maybe one of my other random windows was active when I tried it. I don't have time at the moment, but when I have the chance again I will take a look at this again.

When you say you have "Revelation 1:1-20" in the search box, are you talking about what I've circled in red in the image below? If so, that's the problem. Whatever reference you type into the reference box (at the top) won't go outside of the range you've searched for. You need to delete your search (click on the magnifying glass button) and then you should be fine. 

Thank you. I am pretty sure I am clicking the right thing, but given my results, likely not. Likewise, when I have the chance I will take a closer look at this and play around with it. Hopefully that will fix it. Thanks. 

Mark and Kristin, I ran an inline search earlier today that just might help you in another thread:

Is there a way to change your "hit" highlights? - Logos Forums

Let me know if this helps you.

Let me know if this helps you.

Hi Brian,

Thanks! Like you mentioned on the actual thread, it is for sure a lot of steps (especially compared to Accordance's simple process), but for sure good to know! [Y]

Hey Kristin, the one nice thing about following these tedious steps(lol) is that once you do this for your language searches, they are saved in your Visual Filters drop down list until you want to delete them. So in just one click, you can bring them back up quickly when you need to refer back to them. Some work on the front end leads to easy searching on the back end!

Hey Kristin, the one nice thing about following these tedious steps(lol) is that once you do this for your language searches, they are saved in your Visual Filters drop down list until you want to delete them. So in just one click, you can bring them back up quickly when you need to refer back to them. Some work on the front end leads to easy searching on the back end!

Thanks, Brian. I'm not sure this quite gets at what Mark was hoping for in terms of search hits, but custom visual filters seems like a really cool feature with lots of potential use cases. Thanks for laying out the sequence. 

Kristin, I am not trying to increase your frustrations but, from errant observation, to get the most out of Logos one needs to accept that Logos does things differently – in some cases, better; in others, not. If you decide to keep the software just accept the challenge of learning a new way to do things (in comparison to Accordance). I use both, mostly Logos since version 10. I am still learning and this thread (and your questions) have been helpful to my workflow. I just accept Accordance as it is (even in its lack of regular development and bugs), Logos as it is. I am gradually moving to all Logos at the moment. They are tools and all tools are not equal. This will not solve your learning curve but it might ease your frustrations, at least a little. [:)]

When you say you have "Revelation 1:1-20" in the search box, are you talking about what I've circled in red in the image below? If so, that's the problem. Whatever reference you type into the reference box (at the top) won't go outside of the range you've searched for. You need to delete your search (click on the magnifying glass button) and then you should be fine. 

Hi Mark,

I think I might understand. So the first search thing with the magnifying glass is like the Accordance verse search, and the search box under it with your red circle is like the Accordance word search. Is this correct?

Likewise, assuming this is correct, with the search box with the red circle, "Bible" means "English word lookup" and "Morph" means "underlying Greek or Hebrew word lookup"? Is that correct? 

I have a love / hate with visual filters. I hope the new dynamic toolbar will make it a bit easier to manage them. 

Yes, the current way is very useable (and it is powerful), but it is an area I would love to see reimagined.

You're welcome Jonathan! Yeah, it doesn't quite do the same thing as Accordance, but it is the closest thing I know of that resembles what they have. The thing I like about Logos is that they have a nice list of different ways to format your search results. Definitely more than Accordance!

You're welcome Jonathan! Yeah, it doesn't quite do the same thing as Accordance, but it is the closest thing I know of that resembles what they have. The thing I like about Logos is that they have a nice list of different ways to format your search results. Definitely more than Accordance!

Thanks, Brian. I'm not sure this quite gets at what Mark was hoping for in terms of search hits, but custom visual filters seems like a really cool feature with lots of potential use cases. Thanks for laying out the sequence. 

Yes, thanks so much for your tutorial Brian. It definitely helped me understand more of what visual filters are capable of. However, once it was pointed out to me that a single search may generate a variable number of colors, it made more sense to stick with Logos' standard search options.

You're welcome Jonathan! Yeah, it doesn't quite do the same thing as Accordance, but it is the closest thing I know of that resembles what they have. The thing I like about Logos is that they have a nice list of different ways to format your search results. Definitely more than Accordance!

once it was pointed out to me that a single search may generate a variable number of colors, it made more sense to stick with Logos' standard search options.

Agreed. I wasn't keen on the highlighting for hits until seeing the multi-colored hits. That's pretty neat. 

Hey Mark, that's cool, I use that search as well. I am having a lot of fun learning from everybody on this thread. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and I am having a blast learning all of these different search methods and trying to do similar searches that Accordance does as well as learning and adapting to Logos's search methods. The more I'm learning, the more fun it gets![:)]

Hi Kristin

I think I might understand. So the first search thing with the magnifying glass is like the Accordance verse search, and the search box under it with your red circle is like the Accordance word search. Is this correct?

Likewise, assuming this is correct, with the search box with the red circle, "Bible" means "English word lookup" and "Morph" means "underlying Greek or Hebrew word lookup"? Is that correct? 

I don't know what those terms mean in an Accordance context but the mapping doesn't "sound" quite right.

Does this help at all?

The box outlined in red below is a navigation box - enter a new Bible reference to update the Bible to that place

And you get different navigation options in different types of books - in an encyclopedia, for example, you will get options to navigate to headwords (titles of articles) or page number (if the book supports page numbers)

The search box below the navigation box opens the Inline Search bar - which gives options for running Book, Bible or Morph style searches. This provides the ability to filter the display of your Bible (or other book) based on the search terms.

 

While the Bible search option (in fact all of them) can do single word or phrase lookup, it supports searching with the full range of Logos tagging as well.

So you can, for example, find wherever Jesus speaks to Peter

or where the word life appears within an OT allusion

The Book option supports the same search options as the Bible option but the "span" is different. In an Inline Search, a Bible search only finds results within a single verse while a Book search spans the entire chapter. So it enables you to find where a combination of terms occur within a wider amount of text

The Morph option enables morphological searching and can (as is the case with the other searches) be combined with a range of search operators enabling something like this:

Incidentally, a relatively recent change in search functionality means that a Bible search will also support morphological search terms.

Does this make sense / help clarify things?

The more I'm learning, the more fun it gets!

Every day is a school day when it comes to Bible Software!

The learning continues: The VISUAL FILTER and INLINE search that I ran earlier today with the LSB and NA28 (Is there a way to change your "hit" highlights? - Logos Forums), well, I ran the same search today in the Old Testament trying to get the hits to show up in a similar way as Accordance, and the only Hebrew Bible that I could get the highlighted hits to show up was with the Lexham Hebrew Bible. NONE of the BHS Bibles would produce highlighted INLINE SEARCH hits while performing an INLINE SEARCH of a Hebrew lemma in an English Bible. Just a heads up!

NONE of the BHS Bibles would produce highlighted INLINE SEARCH hits while performing an INLINE SEARCH of a Hebrew lemma in an English Bible.

Yes - this is because they have different morphologies

I don't know what those terms mean in an Accordance context but the mapping doesn't "sound" quite right.

Does this help at all?

The box outlined in red below is a navigation box - enter a new Bible reference to update the Bible to that place

And you get different navigation options in different types of books - in an encyclopedia, for example, you will get options to navigate to headwords (titles of articles) or page number (if the book supports page numbers)

The search box below the navigation box opens the Inline Search bar - which gives options for running Book, Bible or Morph style searches. This provides the ability to filter the display of your Bible (or other book) based on the search terms.

 

While the Bible search option (in fact all of them) can do single word or phrase lookup, it supports searching with the full range of Logos tagging as well.

Hi Graham,

Thank you very much for the detailed screenshots. That was very helpful. I think you and Mark were both correct that I was mixing and matching those two search functions.

I think it will take me a little bit to really get used to it, but I think I fundamentally understand it now... I think. The first top search thing is basically talking about the range. So in the first screenshot the biblical range is in John, then in the second search under it, it is clarified what is searched for. So for example, Jesus talking to Peter IN JOHN. To test this, I changed the first search to Mt-Jn, and now it is highlighting stuff in Matthew. So I think I understand it. I will post a screenshot in case I am totally off.

I will need to look closer at your screenshots and play with it a little, but right off the bat I have two related questions about the part what is searched for:

1. The "speaker" and "addressee" is super unnatural for me. The "speaker" is normally the "subject" or "nominative" and the "addressee" is normally the "direct object" or "accusative." I tried running the search like that, replacing "speaker" with "subject" and replacing "addressee" with "direct object" but I got an error message. Is there a way to use familiar grammatical terms?

2. If not, and these are set commands, is there a list of what commands work somewhere? I don't think I would have guessed "addressee" in a thousand years.

1. The "speaker" and "addressee" is super unnatural for me. The "speaker" is normally the "subject" or "nominative" and the "addressee" is normally the "direct object" or "accusative." I tried running the search like that, replacing "speaker" with "subject" and replacing "addressee" with "direct object" but I got an error message. Is there a way to use familiar grammatical terms?

Speaker and addressee apply only to direct speech and therefore are much narrower than the terms you wish to equate them to. They are documented in the Help document and, IIRC, in the help build into the search panel.

subject (grammatical role) and agent (semantic role) are available in the clause search. Nominative and accusative are available in the morph search. speaker and addressee are standard Logos tagging terms which are applied only to direct speech i.e. some preliminary analysis of the text has been done in order for the user to get accurate results rather than approximate results to screen for usefulness.

is there a list of what commands work somewhere?

Not a complete list as it is ever changing and some are resource specific. However, the Help file, the built in Search panel Help, and the wiki all beat the common ones into your head as well as pointing you towards many of the less common. A snippet from the Search panel built in help:

Speaker and addressee apply only to direct speech and therefore are much narrower than the terms you wish to equate them to. They are documented in the Help document and, IIRC, in the help build into the search panel.

subject (grammatical role) and agent (semantic role) are available in the clause search. Nominative and accusative are available in the morph search. speaker and addressee are standard Logos tagging terms which are applied only to direct speech i.e. some preliminary analysis of the text has been done in order for the user to get accurate results rather than approximate results to screen for usefulness.

If this forum had likes, I'd hit it a bunch of times for this post. The speaker/addressee/etc kinds of searches in Logos are very cool. 

100%

Speaker and addressee apply only to direct speech and therefore are much narrower than the terms you wish to equate them to. They are documented in the Help document and, IIRC, in the help build into the search panel.

Hours and hours and hours of fun... but warning, some accuse me of being a Bible nerd!

Hi BKMitchell,

I am wondering that too. I tried a few things but can't get a consistent result. Also... btw... do you intend for the vav to be there at the front?

The vav is not important In the example mentioned before I would basically just like to be able to find words that have the two accents. For example:

Genesis 5:29 (זֶ֞֠ה )

Leviticus 10:4 (  קִ֠רְב֞וּ  )  

Ezekiel 48:10 ( וּ֠לְאֵ֜לֶּה   and וְיָ֙מָּה֙ )

Zephaniah 2:15 (  זֹ֞֠את   )

I was (and still am) curious if Logos could do this, but so far it seems like no one (at least on the forums) has run this type of search.

Hey BKMitchell, would this Interactive tool help you in your Hebrew searching?

Hi Kristin

I think it will take me a little bit to really get used to it, but I think I fundamentally understand it now... I think. The first top search thing is basically talking about the range. So in the first screenshot the biblical range is in John, then in the second search under it, it is clarified what is searched for. So for example, Jesus talking to Peter IN JOHN. To test this, I changed the first search to Mt-Jn, and now it is highlighting stuff in Matthew. So I think I understand it. I will post a screenshot in case I am totally off.

No, this is not quite right

The first box - the navigation box - is simply the current location in the Bible. So, in my screenshot, the Bible is open to John 1:1-51. It isn't imposing any contraints on any subsequent inline search.

The reason search results show starting from John is that was where the Bible was open to when I ran the Inline Search (which goes back to the discussion we had yesterday).

1. The "speaker" and "addressee" is super unnatural for me. The "speaker" is normally the "subject" or "nominative" and the "addressee" is normally the "direct object" or "accusative." I tried running the search like that, replacing "speaker" with "subject" and replacing "addressee" with "direct object" but I got an error message. Is there a way to use familiar grammatical terms?

I know MJ addressed this in her response but I wanted to clarify that the speaker and addressee terms are examples of specific tagging carried out by Logos and available in their datasets.