FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
-
Unsichtbar said:John said:
they are not going to take your input. the only way for you to switch back to the old toolbar is to cancel your subscription.
Sad - but true. It will stay and there will be no option. I wonder why they ask for feedback at all if it is not taken into account anyway. That has already happened a few times.
I'm actually at a loss for why they are still stating that they are not planning to give an option.... We have seen the option available in Mark's video and another user posted an experimental option between the toolbars - yet the only answer we have received directly from Logos is there are no plans to allow users an option....
Considering that this feature has such a drastic impact on the use and efficiency of use of the program - it really makes no sense at all to not offer the option from a user stand point.... There are those of us who will not subscribe as long as we will be FORCED to use an inefficient workflow for our use of the software and some who have already stated they are considering cancelling the subscription to get the Classic Toolbar back...
This reminds me of when they took away the Sermon File Addin and we were then told to change the way we created our Sermons, so the "new and improved" Sermon feature could import the Sermon.... I actually had one rep tell me to make two copies of my Sermons to prevent me having to change my Sermon creation model - so in other words the user was to do more work, to make up for the now inefficient manner of function of a Feature.... Needless to say, that is when I stopped using the Sermon Feature(s) in Logos.
So in the same way - if the only way to alleviate the inefficiencies of this "new and improved" is to not subscribe or to relearn/learn keyboard shortcuts - again making the user change their workflow to try to alleviate the inefficiency of a feature decision...
I was willing to give the subscription a chance to impress me, mostly for the Android Sermon features (which is another story, I may be wrong, but I don't recall users being told they had to upgrade or subscribe for a feature that was bringing parity to an OS environment - did Mac Users ever have to upgrade to get access to features they already owned in Windows, when the parity between OS environments was being worked on?) - but as long as I will be forced into using the Dynamic Toolbar, I guess I will only be a user and not an active customer.... Also need to make sure I have backup copies of the V36 install programs just in case....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
Frank Sauer said:
.... Also need to make sure I have backup copies of the V36 install programs just in case....
Thats what I did. I am not currently a subscriber, but I’m still planning on giving it a try.
Of course I’m one of those people who still has a Libronix 3.0g installation. I have added a lot to logos in the last couple years. I sure wish that I could get those into libronix [H]
0 -
I miss the old version. I'm willing to adjust to the new. I would like to see one feature from the old version on the new version.
In the previous version, you could click on the icon to toggle on and off. If you want to make changes to the setting, you would click the drop down menu. This made for quick swaps between seeing parallel resources, greek or Hebrew, and such.
In the new version, it feels cumbersome to toggle things on and off. If we could click on an icon to toggle on and off, then select the drop down from the side as previous versions did, that would make the new version both accessible to new users and quicker and easier for experienced users.
0 -
I see that many don't like the new toolbar, after I played with it awhile and did my post on it for my website, I foudn that I actually like it and the categories of tabs are pretty intuitive once you get used to it. Took me about 2-3 weeks during beta testing.
My advice is give it some time and then if you don't like it I understand. But different doesn't always mean better nor does it always mean worse.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
When working with multiple panels, they can become pretty small, leaving little room for the menu items. There have been many times when I have had the desire to adjust the size of the reference box, as the extra space could be better used by the menu items. I would like to be able to grab that line to the right of the reference box and drag it to the left or right, adjusting the size within reason.
0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
I see that many don't like the new toolbar, after I played with it awhile and did my post on it for my website, I foudn that I actually like it and the categories of tabs are pretty intuitive once you get used to it. Took me about 2-3 weeks during beta testing.
My advice is give it some time and then if you don't like it I understand. But different doesn't always mean better nor does it always mean worse.
Why do some people find it so difficult to accept that we humans are different? Why do you imply that people are obviously unwilling to adapt to new things when they sometimes don't like how new things work out? I don't think this is okay on a personal level, please accept that wasting space and making things cumbersome is not a useful innovation for everyone and the desire for optional disabling is a valid and decently presented reason. Thank you and God bless you.
0 -
I like the idea of getting all the options in 1 place but I think I would prefer them tucked away under the hamburger (or stoplight) menu in the upper-right corner of the panel.
The way I envision it:
- group current options under "Panel Options"
- put what is on the new menu underneath
0 -
Ken F Hill said:
I like the idea of getting all the options in 1 place but I think I would prefer them tucked away under the hamburger menu in the upper-right corner of the panel.
The way I envision it:
- group current options under "Panel Options"
- put what is on the new menu underneath
I support this idea, it would not take up unnecessary space and you would still have direct access to possible functionality.
0 -
This!!
0 -
Unsichtbar said:
Why do some people find it so difficult to accept that we humans are different? Why do you imply that people are obviously unwilling to adapt to new things when they sometimes don't like how new things work out? I don't think this is okay on a personal level, please accept that wasting space and making things cumbersome is not a useful innovation for everyone and the desire for optional disabling is a valid and decently presented reason. Thank you and God bless you.
Why did you imply that I was doing any of that just because I suggested giving it a chance? I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers. May God bless you and give you a wonderful day!!
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
After continued use my conclusion has not changed, the new dynamic toolbar is cumbersome, needlessly distracting, and unproductive. It requires the user to make multiple clicks for common tasks that previously took one click. That is not an improvement. Logos, please respond.
0 -
Ken F Hill said:
The way I envision it:
- group current options under "Panel Options"
- put what is on the new menu underneath
I would add a search box at the top to quickly find an option.
[edit] plus a hotkey to open the stoplight menu.
0 -
Unsichtbar said:
Why do some people find it so difficult to accept that we humans are different? Why do you imply that people are obviously unwilling to adapt to new things when they sometimes don't like how new things work out? I don't think this is okay on a personal level, please accept that wasting space and making things cumbersome is not a useful innovation for everyone and the desire for optional disabling is a valid and decently presented reason.
If I ran the world, and I am very thankful I don't, there would be a 3 month moratorium on requests to modify a new user interface design. Why? Because the longer I use the new toolbar, the more I find that the issues with it are not what I initially thought they would be. One reason is the compactness of the design make extra clicks less of a time issue than I expected and the features not moved to the new toolbar are more of a problem than I expected. As for the interlinear, I don't know because I rarely change its state - in some layouts I have it on, in some off.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I'm loving what I see so far, but I'm trying to find to give this a thorough checkout; Logos is a cut over and above for sure!! TJ
0 -
I see your point. But no one will be able to convince me that having such a tiny clickable area for on/off is a good idea. This design was chosen 100% for aesthetic reasons. There is no practical reason to force users to aim their mouse towards this tiny oval, and I long for the day when that will no longer be necessary. It's not even a consistent design. For the other sub-menu items one can click anywhere in the whole row (great!). But why not extend that functionality to on/off, which is likely used the most?MJ. Smith said:the compactness of the design make extra clicks less of a time issue than I expected
0 -
Ken F Hill said:
Some programs have a command lookup feature I think would help users quickly find what is in the menus without having to remembers what is buried in the secondary menus.
In libreoffice it is called "search commands" (Shift+Esc) and in Freeplane mindmapper it is called "Command Search" (Ctrl+F1) - see below.
You start typing what you remember of a command and it starts filling in likely commands which you pick from to get to the command you want.
I find this functionality to be very helpful. Each command shows the command path where the commands are located in the menus. Plus it is keyboard friendly.
Regardless of the final solution, I would like to push this idea since it should work with whatever solution.
In Freeplane, I mostly used keyboard shortcuts but I still had to access menus for stuff I accessed less often. And Freeplane's menus were way more complex and deeper than in Logos.
I fairly quickly weaned myself off menus using Command Search. It was so much faster, efficient, and painless than menus.
If you want to watch a Youtube video showing this functionality in Freeplane, here is the link : https://youtu.be/bxhCgYmTUJM. I recommend changing the speed to something about 100% - I talk pretty slowly.
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
There is no practical reason to force users to aim their mouse towards this tiny oval, and I long for the day when that will no longer be necessary.
Excellent point. I agree that we should have made the menu heading a clickable label, as it would be for a standard checkbox. I've already brought this up with the team. Thank you!
Aaron Hamilton said:This design was chosen 100% for aesthetic reasons.
Not 100%. The toggle switch was used instead of a standard checkmark because it signifies (in this context) a different kind of thing: It's a master meta-swtich that turns on/off subordinate portions of the UI. We didn't want it to be confused for just another standard checkmark in those menus where there is also a list of checkmarks for individual filters. (I call it the "master breaker," like you'd find at the top of an electrical panel.)
I did make a drawing where the top-level category toggle was a standard checkmark, but then just looked like another item in the list, even with the dividing border. So then I got rid of the border and kicked everything else over to the right by one whole tab stop to make it clear that the rest of the menu content was subordinate. That was clear enough, but there was some unease at having so many menus look like a tree "outline" with just one point, and that arrangement also obscured the fact that this menu item also serves as a title for the menu.
So I suppose you could say that we rejected those options on aesthetic grounds, but the aesthetics are not merely cosmetic; they contribute to legibility, clarity, and information hierarchy. I don't expect any of that to be apparent; I actually hope it's mostly transparent.
YMMV.
0 -
Eli Evans (Logos) said:Aaron Hamilton said:
There is no practical reason to force users to aim their mouse towards this tiny oval, and I long for the day when that will no longer be necessary.
Excellent point. I agree that we should have made the menu heading a clickable label, as it would be for a standard checkbox. I've already brought this up with the team. Thank you!
Aaron Hamilton said:This design was chosen 100% for aesthetic reasons.
Not 100%. The toggle switch was used instead of a standard checkmark because it signifies (in this context) a different kind of thing: It's a master meta-swtich that turns on/off subordinate portions of the UI. We didn't want it to be confused for just another standard checkmark in those menus where there is also a list of checkmarks for individual filters. (I call it the "master breaker," like you'd find at the top of an electrical panel.)
I did make a drawing where the top-level category toggle was a standard checkmark, but then just looked like another item in the list, even with the dividing border. So then I got rid of the border and kicked everything else over to the right by one whole tab stop to make it clear that the rest of the menu content was subordinate. That was clear enough, but there was some unease at having so many menus look like a tree "outline" with just one point, and that arrangement also obscured the fact that this menu item also serves as a title for the menu.
So I suppose you could say that we rejected those options on aesthetic grounds, but the aesthetics are not merely cosmetic; they contribute to legibility, clarity, and information hierarchy. I don't expect any of that to be apparent; I actually hope it's mostly transparent.
YMMV.
Every sentence of your reply made me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Thank you. [:)]
0 -
It seems like I am continuously clicking to toggle the secondary menu out of sight. And it is becoming annoyingly distracting.
I would appreciate some way to force the secondary menu bar into hiding without that final click. There should be an option to auto hide when I click back in the book.
Really, I would like both menus to go into hiding and use a hotkey or move the mouse to the top of the pane (like you do in full screen) to lure the menu back into sight.
0 -
Hello!!! I can't figure out where is the line where you can ask questions and get an answer from my entire library to Logos???
0 -
so far not a fan...im having a problem now where i cant highlight the bible passage, put the cursor over the verses and hit copy. now i try to right click over the verses and for a split second the menu i used to hit copy in shows up but disappears immediately
0 -
Charles Donnelly said:
so far not a fan...im having a problem now where i cant highlight the bible passage, put the cursor over the verses and hit copy. now i try to right click over the verses and for a split second the menu i used to hit copy in shows up but disappears immediately
Would you mind posting this issue in the general forum? I cannot reproduce this problem, but with a little more clarity it may be easier to identify. My expectation is that it is unrelated to the new dynamic toolbar.
0 -
Charles Donnelly said:
im having a problem now where i cant SELECT the bible passage
FIFY. For clarification, you mean that you can't "select," rather than "highlight."
You should create a new thread in the DESKTOP forum (this is the desktop beta forum, and there is no current beta).
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
I believe it is possible that Tab is not functioning on the Dynamic Toolbar as intended. On the classic toolbar, when Tab was pressed, it would jump to the Reference Box. If one continued to press tab, one could cycle through the menu, but it would always default back to the Reference Box each time it was pressed.
With the Dynamic toolbar, I must press Tab 4 times after starting Logos to select the Reference Box, and I must do this every time Logos starts. In addition, while using Logos, Tab does not exclusively jump back to the Reference Box. Instead, it jumps back to its last-used location. Tab must then be pressed many times to return to the Reference Box. Tab no longer prioritizes the Reference Box at all. Is this behavior intentional?
0 -
Aaron Hamilton said:
On the classic toolbar, when Tab was pressed, it would jump to the Reference Box.
Earlier in this thread - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224537/1322957.aspx#1322957 - Bradley commented that the documented shortcut to get to the reference box has always been Ctrl-G.
So I don't know if the earlier behaviour of the Tab key was unexpected and just happened to work as you describe.
0 -
Since this is the official thread about the new toolbar, I want to link to this other thread which describes an issue: the parallel books don't show the pop-up which allows to identify the commentary which is simply named e.g. "John". Not sure whether this was mentioned before in this long thread, but it should be fixed in one of the next releases.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
Graham Criddle said:
Earlier in this thread - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224537/1322957.aspx#1322957 - Bradley commented that the documented shortcut to get to the reference box has always been Ctrl-G.
So I don't know if the earlier behavior of the Tab key was unexpected and just happened to work as you describe.
Thank you. I apologize for missing that. It does appear that many people appreciated the happenstance functionality of the Tab key. But this is helpful information that I will pass along. That said, if marking the reference box as the first location for the tab key were an easy thing to do I think many would appreciate it. However, I can see why things might have changed some. Now the back button and change book button are to the left of the reference box, and the Tab key goes from left to right.
0 -
I stumbled across the toolbar, when I needed to resize the Bible text for copying a larger section than fit on my screen. Once I realized the option to change the text size was no longer under the menu button, I got to looking around and saw "view". In most other apps, this would be where you could adjust these things... and presto! There it was! Good job! I like the change. It is more intuitive
0 -
When the Active Text box has a verse selected and I try to copy, cut, paste, etc. the dialog box pops up for a second and then gets preempted by the Active dropdown box which includes the active text and page number.
0 -
Yeah, once you find it.
0 -
Suggestion:
When I have a question to pose to Scripture, I find it easier to turn to Google / AI to get a quick answer. For example... I wondered if there was more or less than 40 years between Numbers 32:16 and Joshua 3. So I asked Google the following:
"how many years passed between Numbers 32:16 and Joshua 3" and got the following response in seconds: "approximately 38 years"
Now, I don't necessarily think this response is correct, since (as mentioned in the result's Key Points) the agreement happened toward the end of the wanderings. (I would much prefer to ask Logos questions in this way. I expect Logos resources would be more reliable.)
0 -
Thanks for the revamped toolbar. But can we please have the 'New' icon in grey background, not blue. It is very distracting when trying to study. And, it doesn't look good either, as it stands out too much. Thanks
0 -
John Duffy said:
Thanks for the revamped toolbar. But can we please have the 'New' icon in grey background, not blue. It is very distracting when trying to study. And, it doesn't look good either, as it stands out too much. Thanks
I agree
0 -
Im wondering how we know what page were on in any given book. I'm currently reading "The God conversation" (amongst others) and there is no indication of what page i am on.
0 -
I agree
0 -
Robert said:
Im wondering how we know what page were on in any given book. I'm currently reading "The God conversation" (amongst others) and there is no indication of what page i am on.
This is an eBook, those typically don't have any indexes built in, so there is no page number information.
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
The interlinear option does not appear to work and I am in the middle of my sermon. Not good.
0 -
In what way isn't it working? That's not been a complaint.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Under the View menu should be the Interlinear. With the drop-down there is a switch to turn it on or off. Several of us have asked for the functionality of just clicking on the menu tab to turn it off and on. You can also use Ctrl - Alt - R (typed from memory) to open the Interlinear box at the bottom, but it's not the same as the full thing. I believe Version 38 is supposed to also give a key command sequence to turn the full interlinear on and off.
0 -
My bad. It's Ctrl- Shft - R. But surprise tonight it opens both the full interlinear and the box at the bottom. A second use of this sequence turns off the box at the bottom, but the full interlinear stayed on. It doesn't seem to turn it off though, it just cycles through the box at the bottom after the first two uses.
0 -
How do I find page numbers within the body of the text. I cannot find the visual filter on the new toolbar
0 -
Welcome Cornelis! [:)]
Cornelis Van Dam said:How do I find page numbers within the body of the text. I cannot find the visual filter on the new toolbar
If your resource has page numbers, you will find them here:
formatting | markers | page numbers
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
I really like th enew format of the toolbar but why is Reading Plans listed under two (2) different sections (Formatting and Tools) and why two different titles?
That all seems somewhat confusing to me and I believe it would be better to at least give them the same title so users do not think they might have to enter the Reading Plan information twice.
0 -
I click and nothing happens. Click, click, click, and nothing happens. Other links work, nut not the interlinear.
0 -
Nor is there a dropdown.
0 -
Jack - please create a new thread and post screenshots.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
After restarting Logos about five times this afternoon and finally I get the dropdown. that's good - - however I check the Louw-Nida box and it does not give me the references. Suggestions
0 -
I tried posting a screenshot, it was in my message box and I do not know why it did not display in the post.
0 -
You must use the paper clip icon or the amber icon to the right of the paper clip to upload and image. drag and drop does not work.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
And after a couple hours - - now Louw-Nida is showing. I do not understand it, but I am thankful it is working. Now to learn the other resources.
0
