FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
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I agree! This is important!Anderson Abreu said:Knowing the number of hits is essential and it was the first place I looked after the search.
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Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
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John Brumett said:
Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
Yes, it is, but I think only for those who have a subscription.
https://app.logos.com/____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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I just realized this, but in the old version there was a back and forwards button to switch between references. It made navigation easy. Now I'm only seeing the back button. So if I want to quickly jump back to the last verse I can do that, but then there's no easy way to get 'forward' to the verse I was just at. I can only move back in the list.
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
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Morgan said:
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
If I click the back button then a forward button appears. Right-clicking on either one gives a history
Are you seeing the same?
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Graham Criddle said:Morgan said:
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
If I click the back button then a forward button appears. Right-clicking on either one gives a history
Are you seeing the same?
I am now! Thanks Graham.
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Anderson Abreu said:
Inline search still works in the beta version with the new Toolbar, but I can't understand why they took away the result count.
I agree this is important, and Mark said the lack of a hit count is a bug that will be fixed before the new toolbar is released. Hopefully the charts link makes it back too.
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I didn't remember that detail from his comments. I was on vacation, but I was still trying to keep up with the long forum on my cell phone. (Much love for Logos lol) And the forum doesn't have a mobile version (here's a hint)! So I missed it.Jonathan Huber said:I agree this is important, and Mark said the lack of a hit count is a bug that will be fixed before the new toolbar is released.
I also hope that this will work again. It would be a loss not to have it and extra work to have to open the full search tool.Jonathan Huber said:Hopefully the charts link makes it back too.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Anderson Abreu said:John Brumett said:
Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
Yes, it is, but I think only for those who have a subscription.The new toolbar on the web app is available to everyone, subscription or not. It was released a few months ago.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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I was only willing to read the first three or four pages of this thread, so forgive me if I am re-paving anythibng.
The new toolbar is completely exhausting for me. Granted: I am on tumbling-gravel precipice side of the blindness spectrum, but I was at least marginally functional with the former toolbar / interface.
If there will be no way to opt-out of the new toolbar, I will be forced to forgo the other benefits and drop my subscription. I'm no programmer, but as another replier has suggested, since non-subscribers will open Logos with the former toolbar, it doesn't seem to be a Manhattan-Project-level task to enable subscribers to opt-out.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Robert M. Warren said:
... it doesn't seem to be a Manhattan-Project-level task to enable subscribers to opt-out.
Maybe a Newark-level.
I suspect they're married to that toolbar. For some reason Faithlife hates user-customizing choices. Years ago, the Tools menu was made customizable, abd rumor has it, .... well, someone's career plateau'd.
I just hope the new toolbar doesn't leak into non-subscribers' UI.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Robert M. Warren said:
The new toolbar is completely exhausting for me. Granted: I am on tumbling-gravel precipice side of the blindness spectrum, but I was at least marginally functional with the former toolbar / interface.
Can you help me understand your difficulties better?
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Can you help me understand your difficulties better?
Too many clicks. For example, multiple book view is three clicks vs. the former one click. Too many options to read through vs. the old toolbar was a simple icon to click.
The ability to customize the toolbar would be ideal. The option of text+icon, text-only, or icon only with hover description would be great. Rearranging the order of the menu or your own custom menu panel with frequently used options.
Until then, a settings option to toggle subscription toolbar vs. non-subscription toolbar works. As a subscriber, I would prefer to have the old one back.
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Paul said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Can you help me understand your difficulties better?
Too many clicks. For example, multiple book view is three clicks vs. the former one click. Too many options to read through vs. the old toolbar was a simple icon to click.
The ability to customize the toolbar would be ideal. The option of text+icon, text-only, or icon only with hover description would be great. Rearranging the order of the menu or your own custom menu panel with frequently used options.
Until then, a settings option to toggle subscription toolbar vs. non-subscription toolbar works. As a subscriber, I would prefer to have the old one back.
The subscription toolbar is bad design when one panel menu is replaced with 6 additional menus whose content one has to guess, especially with the ironically name Tools menu in what used to be a Toolbar. We even have the meaningless More menu when horizontal space is lacking on top of the extra vertical space/line. At least we knew where to go for additional functions with the "non-subscription" Panel menu.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Totally agree with Dave. The new toolbar is a cluttered mess!
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
Can you help me understand your difficulties better?
Thanks. Actually, this is more a Robert / Life Itself issue. If I had more carefully worded my reply, I would have made it sound less disparaging of this UI and more a lamentation for a major UI change. My vision field is likely in the single digits, so a UI re-working is akin to re-arranging furniture. My main message should have been lobbying for a switcheroo option.
Since I'm confident you all put a lot of thought and work into this, I'll give it a while longer.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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I like the new toolbar quite a bit! Takes some time to learn where things are, but I think it's a fairly short learning curve.
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Dave Hooton said:
The subscription toolbar is bad design when one panel menu is replaced with 6 additional menus whose content one has to guess, especially with the ironically name Tools menu in what used to be a Toolbar. We even have the meaningless More menu when horizontal space is lacking on top of the extra vertical space/line. At least we knew where to go for additional functions with the "non-subscription" Panel menu.
I've been using the revised tool heavily the last couple of weeks for real work not testing. I have found the following elements annoying:
- I keep guessing wrong whether something is in Formatting or View.
- I really miss the ability to toggle the interlinear which is a feature I frequently use.
- The Find still being on the resource menu rather than under search confounded me as a blatant design inconsistency.
- there are still a few bugs e.g. factbook that affected me.
Do I like the additional clicks? No.
Do I think the new design is an improvement? Yes, not for power users but for the general user.
Do I think there ought to be an option to retain the old format? No, I hate wasting the ongoing support dual solutions require.
What I would propose is an additional tab "power user" which includes the toggling options of the old design, the find, and options from other tabs that the user wants at hand. This would allow the power user to select the power user tag, leave it open, and have the lost functionality back at their fingertips without additional clicks while retaining the more discoverable aspects of the dynamic toolbar.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
- I keep guessing wrong whether something is in Formatting or View.
- I really miss the ability to toggle the interlinear which is a feature I frequently use.
- The Find still being on the resource menu rather than under search confounded me as a blatant design inconsistency.
- there are still a few bugs e.g. factbook that affected me.
MJ, although I do like the new toolbar, I agree with your points here. Especially your second point.
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming.
We're considering adding more keyboard shortcuts for frequently used features that now require more clicks, such as "Add parallel text" and "Interlinear".
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After using it for a bit now, I agree with the feedback here. I suggest:
- Combine Formatting and View into View
- Make "Show Footnotes" its own option under View
- Remove "Find" on the 3-vertical-dots menu
- Provide some personalization options
- Do something to reduce the visual busyness and crowdedness (shorten some of the verbose labels e.g. "Add parallel text" => "Parallel view"; "Start reading plan" => "Reading plan"; reduce vertical space if possible; provide Icon Only option; etc)
- For ebooks that aren't indexed and have no page numbers, get rid of the non-functional empty text box in front of "Home"
In general I think the new toolbar is much easier to understand especially for new users. But it will take a bit of getting-used to for long-time users.
I don't think offering both the old and new is a good idea. It will be confusing and will create a support nightmare even in forum discussions.
This is akin to when Microsoft introduced the "ribbon" to MS Office.
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PL said:
Remove "Find" on the 3-vertical-dots menu
But keep the functionality - just move it into the dynamic menu.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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It's already there, under the Search tab, right?
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PL said:
It's already there, under the Search tab, right?
Nope, only the inline search with a misleading prompt in the argument box ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Very good!PL said:- Provide some personalization options
- Do something to reduce the visual distraction (shorten some of the verbose labels e.g. "Add parallel text" => "Parallel view"; "Start reading plan" => "Reading plan"; reduce vertical space if possible, etc)
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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PL said:
Which one is inline search, and what does the other one do?
The Search menu implements Inline Search (although currently not with all the functionality when used the previous toolbar)
The Find in this panel option opens a small search box enabling you to conduct simple textual searches within the resource - but not using the full Logos search syntax.
If you try each one, you should see the differences.
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Why not call it what it is, and instead of the grey "Find" within the inline search bar, say "Inline Search"?
I understand it may create some confusion incorporating the actual find search and the inline search side by side, but if there were a workable solution, I agree this would be a nice change, having both search possibilities within the search tab.
Why is "Print/Export" listed both under the tools and the share tab? I feel like the share tab is more fitting, and I don't see why it needs to be duplicated.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Why is "Print/Export" listed both under the tools and the share tab? I feel like the share tab is more fitting, and I don't see why it needs to be duplicated.
I imagine it's because I might want to “share” by printing or generating a file to be sent.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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