Hermeneia is newly available for download, and on sale for 50% off!!
Comments
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Wilson Hines said:
Mark, just letting you know I extensively quoted you on my blog post
I'm flattered. Great blog, by the way.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thank you, Will and Fortress Press. I'm one happy camper and my wife is relieved at Fortress' and Logos' generosity in offering the full refund. Peace + joy reign in the tent of this septuagenarian and his spouse of 52 years[:D]
Steve Maling
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Hermeneia (43 Vols.)
Hermeneia: New Testament (31 Vols.)
Hermeneia Upgrade (3 Vols.) is the upgrade included with it or it has to be purchased separately`?Blessings in Christ.
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Tes said:
Hermeneia Upgrade (3 Vols.) is the upgrade included with it or it has to be purchased separately`?
Upgrade is include Tes. When Hermeneia was originally released it was 40 volumes. A little bit later 3 more volumes were added so the full package when up to 43 volumes and the 3volume upgrade was made available for those who had purchased the 40 volume package.
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Blessed Andrew,thank you.how is the weather in Australia?
Blessings in Christ.
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Tes said:
Blessed Andrew,thank you.how is the weather in Australia?
Blessing Tes, It is spring time, so its a good time of year.
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Mike W said:
Will there be any kind of discount for people who recently bought Hermeneia?
Depends on how recently is "recently." Their official policy is a full refund if you return it within 30 days, but they've been known to be gracious even after that time period if there are special circumstances. I would call Customer Service and see if they'll let you return Hermeneia if you commit (by placing a prepub order) to buying the Hermeneia & Continental Commentary bundle, and I would guess they will likely accommodate your request. But act soon, since the bundle is shipping on Oct 1.
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Rosie Perera said:
I would call Customer Service
Thanks, I was aware of the 30 return policy. I bought this in early August but I ordered it from the sales person I normally contact at Logos. Since Logos Sales people get credit (and I assume a commission) for sales I'm not sure that returning Hermeneia would be fair to the sales person even if I was within the 30 days. I wouldn't be concerned about this is it was only a matter of a price difference for something I've already purchased. I did contact customer service about a resonable upgrade and they referred me to the Suggestion email link. My sales person didn't know that there was any difference in this new bundle and the 43 volume set. At this time I'm waiting to hear back from him.
Thanks
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Mike, most of us here use salespeople. I have had two salespersons at Logos in since 1994'sh. The first is now working in the ministry in Texas, I think, and the second is a fantastic guy that started at Logos about the first quarter they started sales. I know for a fact my sales guy would love for you to return it, because he would find it an ethical obligation to someone who had purchased in early August. REMEMBER, you are not taking a sale from him/her, as you are then resigning up on a pre-pub. Oh, that may be the problem - you do know you can sign up for pre-pubs and your salesperson get credit, don't you? I e-mail the link to all of the pre-pubs I want as they come out and he clicks the prepub order button for me on his end and he gets credit for that sale. You won't be taking anything away from your sales person if you return this item and pre-pub (as I prescribed) the new release.
EDIT:
I would also add here, if that salesperson didn't feel like it was the right thing to do, I would use another salesperson. "Just say'n." He's making money either way. My sales guy is extremely ethical. One time I had to convince him to sell me something (an upgrade on a third party package), as he didn't think I would use it. In other words, he wants to see me get the biggest bang for my buck.
Wilson Hines
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Anybody have a strong opinion: if one can only get the OT or the NT collection, is there one that is consistently stronger/higher regarded than the other? I am leaning NT, just because I am a bit better with Greek than Hebrew, and for the Matthew Commentary. Thoughts?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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While I've heard that the Matthew Commentary is really worth owning -
I am only picking up the OT because:
- 39 is bigger than 31 (more coverage of the Bible)
- according to this bestcommentaries.com grid the OT finds much more popularity amongst readers.
- well and I don't have another $300 like yourself
Not very convincing I know but it helps me sleep at night!
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I would likewise lean towards the NT set if I had to choose (lucky for me, I did not have to choose either or). My proficiency in Greek is far greater than Hebrew, and I likewise spend my time in research on the NT and related topics.
The quality of some of the NT ones I own on my self are superb. Harold Attridge on Hebrews has long been a friend of mine. I have spent the better part of 5 years in this marvelous book and I cannot recommend Attridge's work enough. It is an excellent piece of scholarship.
Also, like Dan has mentioned, Lutz's work on Matthew is to be on the shelf of every NT scholar. This can be said for the like of Betz on Galatians, Dibelius on James, Bovon on Luke, Collins on Mark, Pervo on Acts, to name a few.
My Blog: Theological Musings
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Thanks, Paul and Clifford. Who's gonna break the deadlock you both created? [:)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Paul Newsome said:
wow thats what I call a price cut! Would being downloadable cause this to be so much less expensive?
Actually there is a basis for your question that could account for this new price level. See this FAQ http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/faq#transferlicenses
and note the last line (red text emphasis added by myself)
Q: How do I Transfer my Licenses?
A: Licenses for shippable products on CD-ROM or DVD-ROM, which come with a Serial Number, can be transferred from one person to another. (See the EULA
for more information.) Unlocks can only be transferred as part of a
full license transfer. There will be a processing fee charged on all
transfers which is subject to change without notice. As of 6/17/09 the
fee is equal to $20.00 per transfer. Either party involved with the
transfer can pay the fee. We require the transfer request in
writing (email is accepted) from the person to whom the software is
currently registered. Please provide the following information:
The name and contact information of the current user, including email address.
The Libronix Customer ID of the current user. (This can be found under Help | About Libronix DLS.)
The name and contact information of the person receiving the license, including email address.
Recipient's Libronix Customer ID, if they have one.
The product name(s) and serial number(s).
Note: Licenses for unlocked, downloadable products are non-transferable.So everyone who purchases Hermeneia by download can only sell it in conjunction with the transfer of their complete collection.
I purchased the CD Rom version a few months back. It only includes the Hermeneia set (not the Continental Commentaries) Although I can sell it individually because it is on a CD with a serial number, it is one commentary I will not want to sell.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
So everyone who purchases Hermeneia by download can only sell it in conjunction with the transfer of their complete collection.
However see this thread and Bob's response. Apparently everything has either not been cleared up, what Bob said he was willing to do (treat downloaded and CD resource licenses the same way) cannot be implemented, or the web page has not been updated. There may have been an update to this thread but I didn't find it in a quick search.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mike W said:
Will there be any kind of discount for people who recently bought Hermeneia?
Thanks
Mike, I purchased the Hermeneia CD just a couple of months ago. I paid
more than the current $600 sale price and did not get the Continental
Commentary with it nor the new volume. I have no desire to return it for a refund or sell it but, if I understand your question correctly, I would also like to ask, Will there be any kind of discount to purchase the Continental Commentaries and the additional Hermeneia volume for persons who recently purchased the Hermeneia 43 volume CD?Did I ask the same question? I do concede I am owed nothing from Logos or Fortress press in this matter.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Dan DeVilder said:
Thanks, Paul and Clifford. Who's gonna break the deadlock you both created?
Hey Dan,
I'm only considering the OT set. Here's my reasoning:
- Within Logos, there are more NT-only sets available of exceptional quality as compared to OT-only (see NIGTC, BECNT, PNTC, and others, many of which include some of the best ones on their respective books).
- With this particular set, you get basically the entire Continental Commentary set (17 out of 19), which contains a number of important works, plus all the OT Hermeneia volumes, which would serve to round out a library on the OT side quite well.
My two cents. But, like others have said, some of the NT volumes are pretty good too...
the ancient art of shalom: thots on sustainable spirituality in san francisco - http://me.jasonkuo.com/thots
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Matthew C Jones said:
Mike, I purchased the Hermeneia CD just a couple of months ago. I paid more than the current $600 sale price and did not get the Continental Commentary with it nor the new volume. I have no desire to return it for a refund or sell it but, if I understand your question correctly, I would also like to ask, Will there be any kind of discount to purchase the Continental Commentaries and the additional Hermeneia volume for persons who recently purchased the Hermeneia 43 volume CD?
Any "discount" for purchasing a collection that contains something you already own is usually best achieved by having you return the former for a full refund and then purchasing the new more complete set. A sales rep can take care of all of this for you in one call. There's no guarantee they'd do the refund after two months (their official policy is only 30 days), but in my experience they usually do, particularly for good customers (anyone who has bought extra books beyond their base package is already a good customer), since they value the long-term relationship with their customers.
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Mark A. Smith said:
However see this thread and Bob's response. Apparently everything has either not been cleared up, what Bob said he was willing to do (treat downloaded and CD resource licenses the same way) cannot be implemented, or the web page has not been updated. There may have been an update to this thread but I didn't find it in a quick search.
I agree, it has not been totally settled. When you read the dates on the thread you referred to, all posts appear to be from last year. When you check the FAQ page I referred to the "last update" was 09/16/2010, as stated in the bottom right corner. I'd say my info should be more correct to the textual critics on the forums. [:P]
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Mark Barnes said:
They're mainly from the liberal-critical
Hello Mark,
I have heard of text-critical, historical-critical, narrative-critical, rhetorical-critical, ...-critical ways to study the scripture, but I have not heard of liberal-critical approach. Can you please define this term for me. Thanks
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tom collinge said:
Can you please define this term for me.
Can't speak for the other Mark, but I read it as liberal and critical. Liberal in overall theological leaning and critical (the methods you mentioned) in approach. Perhaps Mark meant something different.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Sorry, it would be better expressed as liberal/critical rather than liberal-critical. 'Liberal' is an attempt to sum up the theological perspective, 'critical' an attempt to sum up the method. (I appreciate 'liberal' as many different meanings. I'm using it in the sense of the COED: "regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change".
<edit>The other Mark beat me to it, but obviously great Marks think alike!</edit>
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Jason Kuo said:
Hey Dan,
I'm only considering the OT set. Here's my reasoning:
- Within Logos, there are more NT-only sets available of exceptional quality as compared to OT-only (see NIGTC, BECNT, PNTC, and others, many of which include some of the best ones on their respective books).
Thanks for your thoughts, Jason. I was thinking about that, too. I also have more NT than OT. But at the same time, the few times I have used Hermeneia, the entries seemed really compact and brief . . . I realize the volumes are more -critical than theological, but do any OT volumes ever get into extended discussion, or offer very good background or parallel resource material?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Mark Barnes said:
Sorry, it would be better expressed as liberal/critical rather than liberal-critical. 'Liberal' is an attempt to sum up the theological perspective, 'critical' an attempt to sum up the method. (I appreciate 'liberal' as many different meanings. I'm using it in the sense of the COED: "regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change".
<edit>The other Mark beat me to it, but obviously great Marks think alike!</edit>
Mark in the quote which I put up on my blog you wrote that it was "It’s not very theological, but will often pay close attention to historical background." I took that to mean that as far as theology, Hermeneia didn't really take sides on issues; that the commentary was an academic look at the history, background, and growth of the content.
When I think of "Liberal" I too have two very different trains of thought running through my head. The first is liberal theology whereas they actively either attempt to disprove a fundamental of the faith or they hold those anti-fundamental leanings (whether or not those leanings make it into the text). The other Liberal doesn't even fit in this discussion, therefore I will not even head down that rabbit trail.
Wilson Hines
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Wilson Hines said:
Mark in the quote which I put up on my blog you wrote that it was "It’s not very theological, but will often pay close attention to historical background." I took that to mean that as far as theology, Hermeneia didn't really take sides on issues; that the commentary was an academic look at the history, background, and growth of the content.
Yes, that's the principle they espouse. The foreword to each commentary says: "The editors of Hermeneia impose no systematic–theological perspective upon the series (directly, or indirectly by selection of authors). It is expected that authors will struggle to lay bare the ancient meaning of a biblical work or pericope. In this way the text’s human relevance should become transparent, as is always the case in competent historical discourse."
Wilson Hines said:they hold those anti-fundamental leanings (whether or not those leanings make it into the text)
'Fundamental' is probably even less well-defined than 'liberal', so I'll leave 'fundamental' out of it! I'm not suggesting that the Hermeneia commentators actively attempt to disprove fundamentals of faith (although they will sometimes say 'this text doesn't prove this doctrine' [sometimes correctly, sometimes not], without passing judgement as to whether other texts do prove the doctrine).
However, it's vital to understand that there are no 'neutral' perspectives from which to view the text. Ignoring theology when it is in the text doesn't mean you're not taking sides. You are still taking a theological perspective - that is an anti-theological perspective! The Hermeneia commentaries inevitably fall into this trap at times.
I'll give you one sentence as an example. It's a comment on the feeding of the 5,000: "we probably will have to give up here the search for a historical kernel in the sense of a single event, unless one simply wants to affirm it contrary to all verifiable experience."
So, from one perspective it's not taking a stand (the footnote points to one commentator suggesting a miracle, and two more suggesting otherwise). But from another perspective it's sceptical. The very next sentence reads, "…because the feeding story does not have such a historical kernel but is a symbolic story shaped from reminiscences, needs, experiences, and traditions…". The commentator clearly doesn't believe that the gospels are an historical document, which would be typical of those in the 'liberal' camp.
Now in the end, he gets there: "Important for Matthew… was the absolute sovereignty of Jesus, who concretely demonstrates his power over illnesses and hunger. It was important for him that the people once more experienced the power and the attention of their Messiah."
And if he gets there, does it matter that he himself doesn't believe what Matthew believes? That's for you to decide. As I said earlier, I've found the series useful in academic work, though much less so for preaching.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
As I said earlier, I've found the series useful in academic work, though much less so for preaching.
Which I have heard you say before. But your reminder helped me to decide NOT to get the series right now, even at this good price. I have limited dollars--and while I like academic rigor and interchange, that is not my focus or need right now.
Peace.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Mark Barnes said:
And if he gets there, does it matter that he himself doesn't believe what Matthew believes? That's for you to decide. As I said earlier, I've found the series useful in academic work, though much less so for preaching.
Matters to me.
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Thanks Mark,
This is what I was thinking that you were thinking, but I just wanted to make sure. When I first read you post, it did come across to me that you were saying that only people who have 'liberal theology' engage in the various academic critical methods. As we all know, people from across the theological spectrum engage scripture using the various academic methods.
Mark Barnes said:I've found the series useful in academic work, though much less so for preaching.
Same here, but I do use it for my Bible studies.
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Dennis Miller said:
Dennis, It matters to me too, insomuch as I would not rely on it as a preaching resource. I do relish it as an academic resource. The factual discoveries could often be beneficial even in sermon preparation. Much as William Barclay dismisses miraculous events in the Gospels but still comes up with amazing perspectives that benefit preachers who do believe the accounts of miracles. I usually hear a disclaimer from the pulpit whenever a preacher quotes Barclay.
As Mark Barnes stated, Hermeneia delves into background material much more than attempting to develope a theological conclusion. I find it refreshing. A less technical commentary from the Lutheran perspective is the Augsburg Commentary on the New Testament (15 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/4292
I have it on Pre-Pub for it's practical application of the Bible to daily Christian living.If you don't have need or interest in deeper research into backgrounds there are plenty of practical ministry resources in Logos that will aid you in the how-to without consuming your precious study time. You won't need Hermeneia to prepare for an evangelistic crusade but it will come in handy teaching a Bible college class.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Got my Hermeneia and I also picked up a couple more things like the Textual Criticism Bundle and the Sheffield Reader set. Fantastic tools, can't wait for the indexing to finish!
Anybody else?
Wilson Hines
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