Concerning Maps
Comments
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At the moment I am a little troubled by ... a big brother approach
Can I politely suggest another way of thinking about things? I agree -- we are taking a big brother approach. But if instead of the "big brother" of 1984, you think of an actual "big brother", who watches your house while you're out of town and helps you build the deck behind your house, he's not so bad, right? Even if he does organize your messy tool bench without asking. :-)
I generally stay in hotels where all they do is make the bed and swap the towels. At a business conference once I stayed in an incredibly service oriented hotel where the maid rearranged all my toiletries on a cloth, put slippers by the bed, turned down the sheets, put chocolate on the pillow, and even folded the clothes I'd draped over a chair. My first reaction was annoyance; why are they touching my clothes, I don't wear slippers and they are in the way, etc. etc.
But after a couple days, it felt kind of nice. :-)
Logos 4 tries to be helpful, and sometimes it gets in the way when you know exactly what you want to do. But I believe it is more helpful to the majority, and that it guesses well. And as we move forward we'll try to listen to feedback (yours included), make changes, and even adapt to your preferences. (If the slippers get kicked away every day, the maid should realize that and stop putting them out.)
As a tiny example, if you use the command bar, type an abbreviation, and then select the SECOND item in the list, the command bar will remember. Next time you type the exact same thing, it will default to the SECOND item, not the first one. It remembers. I hope to get more of this logic into the system -- we'll open your reading plan with a Passage Guide, Bible Explorer and Information Window, but if you immediately close them, we'll try to remember that and not open them next time. And hopefully we'll find ways to be useful without becoming too annoying.
(I'm reminded of the transition from the LLS to the Libronix DLS in 2001. One of the primary complaints of existing users was that we opened something by default -- our home pages -- instead of opening to the blank screen and library control that we'd defaulted to with the LLS. "How can you assume you know what I want first?" We can't. We just assumed that "nothing" was less likely right than "something", which turned out to be true for most users. But not all. A small percentage set LDLS 3.x to open to an screen empty still.)
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Bob,
Lot's of good points...thanks for weighing in...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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(I'm reminded of the transition from the LLS to the Libronix DLS in 2001. One of the primary complaints of existing users was that we opened something by default -- our home pages -- instead of opening to the blank screen and library control that we'd defaulted to with the LLS. "How can you assume you know what I want first?" We can't. We just assumed that "nothing" was less likely right than "something", which turned out to be true for most users. But not all. A small percentage set LDLS 3.x to open to an screen empty still.)
You mean, like me. The "home page" in 3.0 is definitely out, and the last opened may not be what I want. I have all of my standard configurations saved as workspaces and can open they quite easily. I am pleased to see that in 4.0 you can type in all or part of the workspace (ahem, "layout") and bring it up even easier since scrolling through a long list was a bit tedious. I must say that the new home page is an improvement in giving useful information though it gets a bit tedious over time since much of it doesn't change that frequently.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Andrew ~ If you hold the Ctrl key down as you click and drag cursor from one place to another, the distance will be displayed. ~ Melissa
For the benefit of other Fusion VMware user on Mac, you need to to hold Ctrl+Alt Key down as you click and drag as Melissa taught us.
PS: It took me 2 days to figure that out [:$]
JK
MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1
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search for maps
Sorry if this has been said before. But the icons across the bottom of many tools are frustrating
<rant on>
Typing Jerusalem in the reference box brings up a map with Jerusalem in it. So far so good.
Across the bottom of my monitor are 40 faded icons which all look nearly the same. There are arrows that allow me to scroll which show another 40+ faded icons which all look the same. Actually there are a bunch of icons which are clearly pictures, but they too all look alike. None of these icons provide any information other than it is another map or picture of some sort. So I have 80+ things to search through, one of which may be what I am looking for.
If I hover over one of these icons, after a few seconds a title will appear with a larger image (but for some reason it will disappear after a few seconds). Great! I know what one of the 80+ icons is, and if none of the other icons have information that is closer than this one, I can come back to it. That is if I can remember where it was when I finish searching the list (which will take 2-3 minutes minimum).
How am I supposed to find what I am looking for with this user interface? To me it is a completely frustrating experience. There appears to be no order to the icons and even if there was, in most cases there is no visual clue what any given icon is a map of (beyond something to do with Israel) and nothing to distinquish any given icon from its neighbors.
I cannot understand how this is supposed to be useful. If I am missing something, please let me know.
If I am not missing something, please add a text list of the maps/places instead of the useless list of icons. Alternatively provide a window with the larger maps which appear when you hover are all tiled on a page/series of pages.
Note that making them darker will not help as they are too small to provide information.
Finally, I find it odd that you have pages which look like the icons across the bottom of this page (as well as on other tools such as biblical people)
and the "Select Prefered Bible" on the home page is brighter than a Las Vegas neon sign even after you set your preferred bible.
However, there is no mistaking or guessing what this item is and what it does. I would rather have 80+ item ribbon of an interface like the "choose prefered, over what is currently on biblical places/people tools.
</rant on>
Thanks for listening,
Clinton
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the "Select Prefered Bible" on the home page is brighter than a Las Vegas neon sign even after you set your preferred bible.
Be thankful for small mercies. Apparently Bob's first design (and one on which he was adamant) was this:
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Charlene: i'm still finding clever features myself, but here are two neat ones you may not know about.
- As of beta 7, you can search for labels on maps with Ctrl-F. That helps when you have a map but you don't really know where the place is on it: it will "fly" you in for a close-up
- If you have the Biblical Places report open, you can type a passage in the search box, and it will show you a list of the places mentioned in that passage (sort of like the Bible Explorer, but just for Places). Here's an example, entering "Acts 13" in the search box.
Thanks, Sean! I did not know these 2 tricks...these were great!...keep them coming![:)]
Charlene
Charlene
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Be thankful for small mercies. Apparently Bob's first design (and one on which he was adament) was this:
Beautiful
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At the moment I am a little troubled by ... a big brother approach
I agree -- we are taking a big brother approach.
And it is because of this approach you are loosing me...you have put on way too many training wheels without user consent (ie they can not turn them off when they don't find them useful) ... and I don't find them helpful and sometimes they are down right annoying. I really wish I could say something else Bob, but I can't if I am going to be honest about my thoughts on these things.
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As I read through the posts concerning maps, there seems to be quite a few requests for a table of contents for all the maps. I am not quite sure how this will work, but then again, my concept of "Biblical Places" might be incorrect.
As far as "Biblical Places" are concerned, presently there are the new Logos maps that are being developed now (which I am assuming replaces the Basic and Deluxe Map sets?). But also, is not a feature of "Biblical Places" to scan all of our resources and pull in the maps drawn there? Up to this point, I am seeing maps being picked up from the new Logos maps, Images of the Holy Land, 1000 Bible Images, Stereoscopic Images of the Middle East, Tyndale Bible Dictionary, and Logos new Infographics. When I think of all the maps that are presently in my other books, but am unable to "pull them up" when I need them, it is massive. To think that "Biblical Places" will do that is so awesome!
So, I am not quite sure how it would be possible to have a "Table of Contents" for all the maps that are placed in the ribbon below. I like that they are all there and I can just roll my mouse over each one to see if that is one that I might possibly be interested in.
However, having said that, I am assuming that there will be a "Table of Contents" for the new maps that Logos is in the process of developing, just as there are for the Basic and Advanced Map sets now?
Thanks for all the hard work. I appreciate it.
Charlene
Charlene
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The Logos Maps are one of a small set of resources we've specifically created or commissioned, and for which we've put in extra effort to tie them together with the rest of the library. The Logos Infographics (which does have its own resources with a table of contents) and Biblical People diagrams are similar.
In addition to these, we're going back through all our resources and tagging images (maps, charts, photos, etc.) in ways that allow the Biblical People/Places/Things pages to "collect" them together and show thumbnails at the bottom that you can browse. But it's not really feasible to make a table of contents for all of those: there are too many, and they're an open-ended collection.
The strip of thumbnails images at the bottom of the People/Places/Things pages work pretty well in my opinion for a small number of images ("Open Biblical Things to sandal" shows a pretty good example), but not as well for very popular things like Jerusalem or Jesus. Making thousands of images available and searchable is a challenging
problem, and i think we still have a ways to go (but we're trying!).0 -
Be thankful for small mercies. Apparently Bob's first design (and one on which he was adamant) was this:
That's funny.
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Hi Sean,
...But it's not really feasible to make a table of contents for all of those: there are too many, and they're an open-ended collection.
The strip of thumbnails images at the bottom of the People/Places/Things pages work pretty well in my opinion for a small number of images ("Open Biblical Things to sandal" shows a pretty good example), but not as well for very popular things like Jerusalem or Jesus....
The table of contents doesn't need to be static for the whole map set, but like the strip of icons, it can be dynamic based on the search results. You are already getting the information for the icon strip, it data just needs to be presented in a more usable manner.
Looking at the results for sandal, I don't agree that it works well. It is still just a bunch, albeit a small bunch, of place holders. It's only usable because there are so few results and when you scroll over the set, the 6 results stay in your short term memory so you can make a decision. If those 6 results had their previews all on a single tile page it would be so much better. The strip of icons at the bottom could be replaced with a single icon which was a link back to your dynamic set of results.
i think we still have a ways to go (but we're trying!).
We appreciate it.
Thanks for listening and your feedback.
Regards,
Clinton
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At the moment I am a little troubled by ... a big brother approach
I agree -- we are taking a big brother approach.
And it is because of this approach you are loosing me...you have put on way too many training wheels without user consent (ie they can not turn them off when they don't find them useful) ... and I don't find them helpful and sometimes they are down right annoying. I really wish I could say something else Bob, but I can't if I am going to be honest about my thoughts on these things.
To put in another way Bob, the user should be in charge of the software ratther than the software in charge of the user...
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The Logos Maps are one of a small set of resources we've specifically created or commissioned, and for which we've put in extra effort to tie them together with the rest of the library. The Logos Infographics (which does have its own resources with a table of contents) and Biblical People diagrams are similar.
In addition to these, we're going back through all our resources and tagging images (maps, charts, photos, etc.) in ways that allow the Biblical People/Places/Things pages to "collect" them together and show thumbnails at the bottom that you can browse. But it's not really feasible to make a table of contents for all of those: there are too many, and they're an open-ended collection.
The strip of thumbnails images at the bottom of the People/Places/Things pages work pretty well in my opinion for a small number of images ("Open Biblical Things to sandal" shows a pretty good example), but not as well for very popular things like Jerusalem or Jesus. Making thousands of images available and searchable is a challenging problem, and i think we still have a ways to go (but we're trying!).
Sean if a table of contents for every individual map is not practical if you want to include in the discussion maps that are included in specific resources, we still need someway to be able to work through this data in a non specific way, to browse it, maybe it means an approach to tagging so the maps can be browsed more along the lines the old style yahoo type internet directory... ( I still find this much more useful than the google appoach when I just want to browse) where we can work from the top down...
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