Help Choosing a package or other software
Hey all,
I am a kids and middle school pastor as well as a student working on my Master degree. One of my instructors said he loved LOGOS so I gave it a shot. Our high school pastor is an Accordance user and absolutely loves it. Me...I am a bit confused and overwhelmed by all this stuff. I called LOGOS and they convinced me the Silver package would be great for my needs. The description said it was for serious pastors and students and well, that fit the bill there. I absolutely love the GUI of LOGOS, but I think the front page is a train wreck. Its like a website exploded, but that is another matter. Although I do find LOGOS to have a serious amount of information, its an ocean of stuff when I just need a swimming pool. I absolutely hate paying for a mass load of books I will never look at. The silver set is the only one that came with a commentary, the New American Biblical Commentary set. I will admit, I am a bit of a noob at whats best to use, but I have other commentaries suggested to me that are far better. Personally, I don't know what is best. I don't have $2000 to drop on the mother load of stuff, I am a Pastor, we don't make that much money ;p I am coming on this forum because this is for LOGOS users but I am interested in your suggestions on what package is best, if any. What your opinions are on commentaries, if you prefer one software over another, and just an overall suggestion on what would be best for someone in my position. I appreciate your help!
Comments
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James,
Welcome!
Keep in mind that not only am I not a Logos employee, I'm not a Pastor, so this is just my personal observation.
One thing to remember is that Logos is very generous with their "try it for 30 days" policy. You can put L4 on a payment plan (very nice) and download it immediately.
Then give it a test drive...get it set up...customize it (like getting rid of the homepage at startup if you don't like it; I don't either generally)
Then you can spend the better part of a month if you need it evaluating whether Logos is right for you.
As far as package size? I have Gold, and I love it. Like you, I don't need 15% of what's in my library (for example; all of the Pastor-targeted resources) so I've hidden them in L4 and it's as if they don't exist) I think the recommendation was a good one...for a "Pastor Package"
In the end, it all comes down to what floats your boat...my advice would be to try Logos....and if you just can't get along with it, then give them a call and they'd be more than happy to refund your money so you can take a look at Accordance.
I hope that helped somewhat.
PS: I love a few of the commentary sets that I have; New International Greek Testament Commentary; Baker NT Commentary, Baker Exegetical Commentary, New American, ...and the list goes on.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Hi James,
Welcome! As you're a student, did you know Logos offer substantial academic discounts. That will really help you.
As you know, there are thousands of Logos resources. It perhaps would help to have a little more info about what you're intending to use Logos for, and about your church. Because you're working primarily with children, your use of Logos might not be typical. What do you do in an average week that you're hoping Logos can help you with?
Mark
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thank you Robert for your reply. I looked at the Gold in comparison, didn't look like it had much more than the silver. I am definitely giving this thing a run for its money to make sure its going to be a good fit.
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Hi Mark,
Yes, definitely utilized the discount offering. Accordance offers one as well. That helps out lots in terms of dropping cash. Although my work is from newborns through 8th graders I still want to give the same effort and research that goes for the old folks = ) I do preach to the main congregation periodically so I would not say my limits are with kids, although that is where I feel God has called me. I would like to think that all lesson prep should involve good research no matter who the audience is.
I would say my average week is personal study and devotion daily, sermon prep for Sunday and Wednesday services, and research for my school work. Currently I am taking a class on apocalyptic, but my MA is in Biblical and Christian Studies.
I just did a report on Jewish history and had some difficulties in logos for finding the right info. I will give some of that credit for lack of knowledge in the program. Some of the texts had maps and such that I needed but when it came to the point of using them, they were not easily put into a presentation and viewable.
My goal with LOGOS is to have a tool that can help me in sermon prep, paper writing, and overall spiritual growth in learning. The pastoral commentaries, although some may disagree are rather old school and not relevant for my style. When I look up a book, say, Daniel, I want to read what scholars say about it, the context, the history, the true texts etc. No matter what age this is viable information.
I hope any of this made sense and I am extremely appreciative for your help!
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James Logan said:
I am a kids and middle school pastor as well as a student working on my Master degree. One of my instructors said he loved LOGOS so I gave it a shot. Our high school pastor is an Accordance user and absolutely loves it. Me...I am a bit confused and overwhelmed by all this stuff. I called LOGOS and they convinced me the Silver package would be great for my needs. The description said it was for serious pastors and students and well, that fit the bill there. I absolutely love the GUI of LOGOS, but I think the front page is a train wreck. Its like a website exploded, but that is another matter. Although I do find LOGOS to have a serious amount of information, its an ocean of stuff when I just need a swimming pool. I absolutely hate paying for a mass load of books I will never look at. The silver set is the only one that came with a commentary, the New American Biblical Commentary set. I will admit, I am a bit of a noob at whats best to use, but I have other commentaries suggested to me that are far better. Personally, I don't know what is best. I don't have $2000 to drop on the mother load of stuff, I am a Pastor, we don't make that much money ;p I am coming on this forum because this is for LOGOS users but I am interested in your suggestions on what package is best, if any. What your opinions are on commentaries, if you prefer one software over another, and just an overall suggestion on what would be best for someone in my position. I appreciate your help!
Hi James. Welcome to the forums. Good question.
To help you evaluate this reply, I'm a lecturer and am also working on my Masters part-time. I've been using Logos for 3-4 years, and I have bought into quite a bit more stuff during that time, as I use it incessently. See if you are elegible for academic discount: that may help.
Regarding commentaries:
- For the NT, consider the Bible Speaks Today series. I often turn there first, and they are great value (e.g. REJOICE in 3rd party sellers.)
- For something more academic, Word Biblical Commentary is one of the best value sets (again available through 3rd parties.)
- The sets I use most often are the NIGNT, UBS Handbooks, and Baker Exegetical.
- For futher recommendations, see http://www.bestcommentaries.com/topcommentaries/
You will also want some good dictionaries. Consider adding the IVP Reference set as good value (3rd party).
Regarding feeling overwhelmed, do take the time to:
- prioritize your library
- create collections (groups of books that you may want to search such as dictionaries in English.)
For your Masters-level studies, you may also want to consider adding some journals in due course.
Regarding the home page, I don't like it either, so I just turn it off. Logos 4 then loads with the last layout I used. Uncheck this box:
Hope that helps.
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Hi Allen,
Thank you for your reply! Did you start with a base or buy low and work your way up? I have used the Word Biblical Commentary before, its great, just sometimes I feel I need a dictionary to read it, ha. I am curious what in the Silver matches some of your suggestions. Thank you for the links I'll check them out. I appreciate the homepage info, I will look at that!
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James,
I am one of the Logos users that work without a base package, but this is because I'm not a pastor and just try to teach myself theology (including NT Greek) in my "spare time". If you really consider going without a base package - look into this recent thread http://community.logos.com/forums/t/34431.aspx where some people, including myself, share their insights into this question and also give links to where to get the free installer, some free books and so on.
On the other hand, if I were a pastor, I'd most probably start with a base package; and if I had to got to university or seminary and write papers and a thesis, I'd look in Logos for the required and recommended literature and the commentaries that are regularily cited by my professors.
You will definitely want to check out http://www.logos.com/comparison where you can see which commentaries and other resources are contained in the packages. But in Logos, there are thousands of ressources, many of them not in any base package - or in Portfolio, which may beyond your reach even with an academic discount. Speaking of discounts... Currently there is a special forum sale going on, where deals are offered that you normally don't get. Make sure to post a short answer in the "Meet & Greet" Thread at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/34510.aspx - Sales will then contact you (allow for a day or so, they have some hundred people to cater for) and offer you a "hidden" sale that's not on the website. It may be more worthwile than looking at third party offers...
Hope this helps a bit - feel free to come back with any questions you might have, the forum is great for answers from all over the place.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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James Logan said:
My goal with LOGOS is to have a tool that can help me in sermon prep, paper writing, and overall spiritual growth in learning. The pastoral commentaries, although some may disagree are rather old school and not relevant for my style. When I look up a book, say, Daniel, I want to read what scholars say about it, the context, the history, the true texts etc. No matter what age this is viable information.
That's very helpful. For what it's worth then, let me give you my advice:
- Base packages offer best value for money, followed by collections, followed by individual resources. It's often cheaper to buy a more expensive base package (even if you don't want everything in it) that to purchase a lower package and supplement it.
- The minimum package I think you should be considering is Scholars. So, if I was you, I'd go to the comparison chart, and note the substantial differences between that and the higher packages, and determine whether you think those resources are worth that investment. For what it's worth, here's my take on the differences between the packages (the prices don't reflect student discount):
Scholars to Scholar's Silver ($370):
Holman New Testament Commentary (simple but helpful commentary set); - Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament (old but still good critical and evangelical commentary);
- New American Commentary (good, middle of the road set worth $500. Many people upgrade just for this);
- The Pulpit Commentary (dated and simple, only occasionally useful);
- Concise Oxford English Dictionary;
- Early Church Fathers (often neglected, but everyone should own and use this to avoid chronological snobbery, and to lookup the frequent references given in other commentaries; worth $250);
- Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (useful for looking up Greek words in commentaries and other non-tagged resources).
- Good News Bible (might be useful for you in children's ministry),
- Lexham Hebrew–English Interlinear (quite useful if your Hebrew isn't up to scratch);
- The New International Greek Testament Commentary (excellent, high-quality largely evangelical critical commentary; worth $600);
- United Bible Societies’ Handbooks (handbooks for translators, but can be used as commentaries. Could be of real help if you rewrite Bible passages for children; worth $800).
- Believers Church Bible Commentary (very basic, but sometimes that's useful);
- Pillar New Testament Commentary (incomplete [10 vols] but excellent evangelical technical commentary; worth $325);
- A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG) (the 'best' Greek lexicon available; worth $150)
So, you'll see that according to my reckoning Gold offers best value, but I still think the platinum upgrade is worthwhile because Pillar and BDAG are both excellent. What's missing from all this, but on my 'must-have' list, in this order, would be:
- IVP Reference Collection
- Tyndale Commentary Collection
- Baker Exegetical Commentaries
- NICOT/NICT Commentaries (you might need to save up for these!)
- The newer Pillar Commentaries which are listed separately
- Zondervan Illustrated Bible Background Commentaries
- Preaching the Word collection (mainly for the illustrations and applications)
Logos has so much that you can't have everything you'd like, I'm afraid - even with an academic discount. Choose those things which will be of most use first, then add to your library as finances allow.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark has given you good advise. I don't have Accordance but have looked at it a number of times. I think if you were primarily working with the original languages that might be an option. However, most of us as pastors do some work in the original languages and then make use of dictionaries, commentaries, and other support material. Logos I think clearly excels in the availability of this sort of material and therefore got and will continue to get my nod. If you were working on an MDiv and doing heavy Greek and Hebrew work for class, Accordance might be all you need. But Logos can do pretty much all of what Accordance can do and can grow with you in ways that Accordance probably cannot.
Unfortunately Baker had their materials taken out of Logos' libraries and therefore Platinum, which I have, is not so compelling. Silver or Gold would get my nod.
Like you I hate the Logos Home Page so never use it. Its easy to avoid and go straight to work.
Once you learn the program I think you'll feel you've made a great investment that can grow with you for a long time.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Many have given you excellent advice, there isnt much more I can provide other than personal perspective. It wasn't to long ago I was trying to make the same decisions about if I really wanted to make the leap to logos. I had been considering it for over a year and couldnt pull the trigger because of the cost. I decided as a Pastor the best leap point for me was silver, because of the balance of commentaries, dictionaries, original languages, and pastoral resources. (Plus they dropped the baker resorces from platinum.) Marks post was phenomenal, as always, in showing the positives of each upgrades.
After six months with logos Im kicking myself for not leaping sooner as I had never dreamed it would aid my study in the way it has. Logos is so flexible that you can make it do most any thing that you want it to do. The quanity and quality of study including the time it takes have improved exponentially. Some of that is growth as a pastor but I contribute a portion of that to the tools which the Lord has blessed me to use.
I have added several collections in the short time I've had the program that are wonderful and they have already been mentioned:IVP Reference collection and the Tyndale old and new testament commentaries. My individual plan is to as soon as possible to upgrade to platinum for the resources that Mark has pointed out.May the Lord bless you as you decide.
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James Logan said:
Thank you for your reply! Did you start with a base or buy low and work your way up? I have used the Word Biblical Commentary before, its great, just sometimes I feel I need a dictionary to read it, ha. I am curious what in the Silver matches some of your suggestions. Thank you for the links I'll check them out. I appreciate the homepage info, I will look at that!
I bought into the Platinum package, and have added other resources I wanted as I went.
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Also, don't forget this page: http://www.bestcommentaries.com/topseries/ which shows how many top ranked commentaries are in each series.
The data seems to indicate that NICOT/NICNT and WBC are the best buys.
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My advice for what it is worth is to start with the Scholar package then decide later on exactly what you need for your ministry and education. This package typically is in between ( in terms of price and content) entry level and super humongous premium packages that ultimately become the "recommended" level. Personally I have never found a real need to go beyond what is in this package even after a couple of seminary degrees. Hope that helps.
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Mark Barnes said:IVP Reference Collection
Tyndale Commentary Collection
Baker Exegetical Commentaries
NICOT/NICT Commentaries (you might need to save up for these!)
The newer Pillar Commentaries which are listed separately
Zondervan Illustrated Bible Background Commentaries
Preaching the Word collection (mainly for the illustrations and applications)This is a good list, but I would also add the Word Biblical Commentary series.
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Hi Mark,
My wife is a children's pastor with about a hundred kids in her ministry so I understand a little of where you are coming from. From a children's pastors point of view I would start off with a smaller package and add individual titles as you need them. If you have some original language training I would go with the Scholar's Library as it is the lowest package that has original languages as well as some history, theology and light commentaries.
What degree are you working towards and how far along are you? I bought into logos quite a few years ago while I was working on my MDiv degree and the only regret I have is how addictive it has become for me. You might be amazed at how many of your textbooks you could get in logos format rather than a paper version.
Learning to prioritize resources and create collections of resources will help you get search more effectively. As others have said, I'd definitely add the IVP Reference collection and the Theological Journal Library to your list of next purchases.
Blessings,
Blaine
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Hi Blaine,
This is James, the starter of this post. Mark has been giving me so great info. Thanks for your reply. I have the Silver currently, the Scholars seems pretty good, not to much difference other than the New American Biblical Commentary.On that note, does anyone have an opinion on this commentary. NABC?
It almost appears keeping what I have is not a bad idea, it just looks like I will be saving and adding to it as I go. I liked the package deals because I didn't have to pick and choose. I just figured they would slam the right stuff in there, not a load of stuff you don't need. But just like buying a PC, you get loaded with bloat ware. I am mac user though = )
My degree is a Masters in Biblical and Christian Studies. I am about 4 classes from completion, but I am considering going further as education is addictive. I am interested in the original languages and get the real meaning of the texts. For kids and jr. high messages are fairly topical and relevant to their lives, but there has to be some substance there as well. As a good friend said to me, we need to put in the effort no matter who the study is for. How would we like to have a surgeon work on us who has just skimmed and barely put in any study.
Thank you for the info on textbooks, that I was not aware of and will definitely be looking into that!
Honestly all, my problem is I really do not know what I need, I know that may sound lame, but its a true statement. I appreciate all the suggestions, and the responses from this community. It stinks there is so much cost in all this stuff, but I understand all the work that goes into these books.
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James Logan said:
I have the Silver currently, the Scholars seems pretty good, not to much difference other than the New American Biblical Commentary.
If you have purchased (Scholar's) Silver then you have the NAC (New American Commentary) - the one below that ($370 cheaper) is just called Scholar's Library. If i misunderstood you, and you are still considering a purchase, then the expense of the base Scholar's Library is worth it because you get:-
- Ancient Language texts and morphologies eg. Greek & Hebrew Bibles
- Features & Databases eg. Syntax search, side-by-side Text Comparison of bibles, Sentence Diagramming
- some Commentaries
If you go for the 1/2 price Leader's Library you don't get Ancient texts, none of the Features mentioned and only a basic Word Study & Exegetical Guide.
For Silver see Mark Barnes' post but note that NAC is not complete ie. I've had to purchase 3 volumes since Dec 2009 at $20/volume. The best complete set is Expositor's Bible Commentary at $130. So get Scholar's + Expositor's and you can upgrade to Silver when NAC is complete (?).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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James Logan said:
On that note, does anyone have an opinion on this commentary. NABC?
Try this:http://community.logos.com/forums/p/7206/56807.aspx
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I've had Scholar's Silver since 2004 and been VERY Happy. 2 Commentaries I would highly suggest in your position are - Expositor's Bible Commentary (I purchased that from another publisher before it was available in Logos) and IVP Bible Background Commentary (it was part of Silver when I originally purchased, but is now an extra purchase since Logos 4 came out).
I added BDAG/HALOT bundle when refreshing my skills in Biblical Languages in seminary and the Lexham Bundle for Intermediate/Advanced Greek work.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Hi David,
Thank you for your info. I cannot find the IVP Bible Background Commentary on their website. A lot of resources come up when I type in the name.
Would you suggest keeping the Silver and just adding as I go with the way it is now? Or dropping down and adding a few other resources?0 -
Thank you so much Allen. So would you suggest I stay with the Silver and add as I can afford to?
You mention 3rd parties, where can you find those?0 -
James Logan said:
IVP Bible Background Commentary
It's part of the Essential IVP Reference Collection which I and a few others recommended earlier.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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James Logan said:
Thank you so much Allen. So would you suggest I stay with the Silver and add as I can afford to?
I take it your budget limited you to Silver for your initial purchase. Ideally you go as far as you can reach, particularly if you are getting academic prices.
James Logan said:You mention 3rd parties, where can you find those?
Forum rules prevent us from linking to competetors on Logos' forums, which is fair enough. I suggest you try to REJOICE in good SOFTWARE. :-)
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Thanks, Mark for pointing out that IVPBBCNT is only available in a bundle. I concur with Mark that Tyndale Commentary set would be a good purchase.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Yes, I would recommend staying with Silver and adding as you go. Logos offers some great sales around Christmas and whenever they have a major release (like Logos 4 Mac).
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Allen Browne said:James Logan said:
You mention 3rd parties, where can you find those?
Forum rules prevent us from linking to competetors on Logos' forums, which is fair enough. I suggest you try to REJOICE in good SOFTWARE. :-)
And make sure to receive some e-mails to rejoice over as well. [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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James Logan said:
What your opinions are on commentaries, if you prefer one software over another, and just an overall suggestion on what would be best for someone in my position
Hello James,
Like the rest have said, welcome to the Logos family.
I personally have a different take about the base packages Logos has to offer. Because I have a different theological bent, most of the base packages are a waste of money for me. Therefore, I purchased the original language package and I added the books that I would use.
I would recommend being a good steward and purchase the package that you believe that you will get the most out of, and not to buy into the "bigger is better" theme.
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