Hope this is not a repeat, but could anybody share their opinion when Logos might make the New International Version available for mobile devices?
Randy -
The official view of Logos is that every resource you own SHOULD be available to you on any device you use. Unfortunately, not all publishers agree. In the case of the NIV, the issue is with Zondervan. There is a debate on the forums frequently about Logos giving in and selling separate licenses for the NIV on the mobile app. It is my opinion that this would be a horrible move, and I believe this is the reason we have yet to see the NIV. If Logos caved on this issue, why wouldn't every publisher demand a separate license for use on mobile devices? Personally, I would rather forgo the NIV on the LOGOs app (it is free, after all, on a prominent, non-profit app), and to be able to keep the 80% availability of my other resources.
By the way, if you are unsure about a topic being a "repeat," you can always search the forums. Personally many of us use google search. The search would look something like this:
site:community.logos.com NIV mobile app
This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way ). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device...
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...
Let us know what they say. Remind them that you have a license already - just that Zondervan won't allow you to use it on your mobile device.
This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way ). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...Maybe 20,000 calls, emails or letters on church letter head stating something like:“”Our church is about ready to replace their pew Bibles. We will need 300 <<enter number that you are ready to purchase here>>. We had been using the NIV 1984 and realize that we now need to order the new version. We have noticed that you require our members to buy a new license for every software Bible reader that they own. We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software. Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use. Signed << Pastor, Treasurer, Church Clerk >> of << name of church >>””[[It is NOT going to happen but I can wish pray]]
We will send the order when you allow all Bible software to use the current NIV for no charge other than the price of the basic software. Please do not wait too long or we will need to research some other Bible Version that does allow free electronic use.
This is not even the issue. Zondervan should not have to give away the NIV for Free. They are a business run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. The issue isn't getting FREE Bibles, but rather allowing us to use the license that we have ALREADY PAID FOR to be used on multiple devices. In your sample letter, "the price of the basic software" does not allow for Zondervan to be compensated. I don't think anyone is asking for that.
Just a suggestion that many won't like. Find a Bible translation that is not owned by non-believers and therefore handcuffed to their wallet.
OK. Buy a Hard Copy and use on any Bible Software - Controlled by password hard coded inside the Hard copy - [''We are sorry but that hard coded password has already been used by another user of Logos Software'' [do not buy if the plastic wrap is torn!] ] Buy ONE copy and use anywhere - Zondervan cost me for my hard copy, cost me for Logos, cost me for an other version - Logos is RIGHT - Pay once use everywhere - not pay everywhere.
This has become a really sore issue with me. Zondervan is holding the ball and I think they have dropped it. The Logos app has been out for nearly two years now, which I think is sufficient time for them to re-write their license for Logos. My suggestion to anyone concerned about this - call Zondervan and ask to speak to someone who knows about this - someone who deals with licensing and let them know your frustration (in a loving sorta way ). One or two phone calls might not make a difference, but fifty or more might. I am sure there are at least that many people that would like to have the NIV on their iphone or android device... The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I will be calling them later today...
I think you are miss-guided...
Zondervan owns the rights to the content, and they sell the license agreements.
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract.
I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why?
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract. I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why?
You sound like this was a trivial little matter that Logos was negligent in doing. Bob has said:
We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission.
What more can you ask for?
When did Logos negotiate the original contract? That would make a big difference in whether Logos should have been thinking in terms of mobile devices, wouldn't it?
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract. I would bet this was not done, and now you want to blame Zondervan. Why? You sound like this was a trivial little matter that Logos was negligent in doing. Bob has said: We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission. What more can you ask for?
How you got "sound" out of a written email is beyond my comprehension. Who said trivial? YOU DID.
Your post is almost funny... [Y]
Zondervan would be more than happy to allow Logos to use the NIV on mobile devices.
But, yes -- you guessed it, for a fee! It is called compensation. Novel concept, pay the fee, and it is ALLOWED.
I realize technology, and anticipated usage of Logos has changed drastically over the last 20 years.
But, that is why contract language is critical when you strike a deal with a publisher. You must (try) to consider the future possibilities and include that usage into the license agreement.
Clearly the language in the original contract did not allow Logos to use mobile devices, and now Zondervan is the one to blame.
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract. When did Logos negotiate the original contract? That would make a big difference in whether Logos should have been thinking in terms of mobile devices, wouldn't it?
Really, jeeezz... do you think???[I]
Why do you blame Zondervan?
Our contract for the NIV was first negotiated in 1991.
We would have liked, even then, to have the contract cover all electronic formats, but many publishers then wrote contracts to specific media. (We had contracts that limit rights specifically to floppy disks, for example.) This is a carry over from how publishers slice and dice print rights, sometimes explicitly granting/withholding cookbook, calendar, book club, and large-print rights for a single book.
We know people want the NIV. So does Zondervan. It frustrates me that they've given it for free to others for mobile use, and that our users who paid for it can't access it on a mobile device yet. But there's more to our relationship than the NIV, and we're trying to find a way to work together on all Zondervan content moving into the future. And that discussion has taken some time. I do believe, though, that it's nearly complete.
I'm sorry I can't provide more specifics, but I can assure you we haven't forgotten the issue for even a day over the past two years.
Thanks Bob!
Thank you for the update Bob!
If Logos wanted the flexibility to have NIV material available on portable devices, Logos should have negotiated mobile device availability into the original contract. Our contract for the NIV was first negotiated in 1991. We would have liked, even then, to have the contract cover all electronic formats, but many publishers then wrote contracts to specific media. (We had contracts that limit rights specifically to floppy disks, for example.) This is a carry over from how publishers slice and dice print rights, sometimes explicitly granting/withholding cookbook, calendar, book club, and large-print rights for a single book. We know people want the NIV. So does Zondervan. It frustrates me that they've given it for free to others for mobile use, and that our users who paid for it can't access it on a mobile device yet. But there's more to our relationship than the NIV, and we're trying to find a way to work together on all Zondervan content moving into the future. And that discussion has taken some time. I do believe, though, that it's nearly complete. I'm sorry I can't provide more specifics, but I can assure you we haven't forgotten the issue for even a day over the past two years.
I can only imagine how frustrating this must be... sometimes things don't seem fair, and in my human mind they are not fair. For example the Logos vs. LifeChurch use of the free NIV on mobile devices does not seem fair, even though at one time you agreed to the usage limitations with Zondervan.
This situation makes me think of Mathew 20: 13
But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
I have always had a difficult time in seeing the fairness in this passage, but, the passage is not about fairness, even though my mind wants to go there.
Regardless if you ever get the NIV on mobile, (I have switched to using the ESV now, because of this) Bob I believe in Logos, I am heavily invested into your dream, and I support your efforts. I will be praying for great favor in this challenge on your/our behalf.
However, I think God has His fingerprints all over Logos, and I have watched your dream blossom, please continue in your faithfulness to deliver the very best Bible Software made.
I have read most of your posts in the past, and there is one thing that is clear in my mind, you are a bright man.
We all vote with our pocket books, and I for one have voted heavily, I have never doubted Logos abilities to deliver. I have many opinions which I voice, and I don't always agree with all things done at Logos, but, I do stand committed to Logos for the long-haul.
The forum is a great conundrum of people with many great ideas. I appreciate all the forum users and that you listen/(read) to your users. Thank you.
