Why Notes on Passage Guide et. al.
I understand why someone would put notes on a book or bible. But does anyone actually put notes on a passage guide and if so what kinds of things would you put in notes there? Where else besides books and bibles do you put them and why?
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association
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I had to ask the same question Kevin.
It was suggested that you might want to annotate which commentaries where most useful or something along those lines. Certainly not much of anything passage related.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I actually build a lesson in "notes" as I study the passage and keep records of my observations, its a nice way to keep track in an ongoing study, and its great for sermon prep.
Works for me.
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Kevin A. Purcell said:
I understand why someone would put notes on a book or bible. But does anyone actually put notes on a passage guide and if so what kinds of things would you put in notes there? Where else besides books and bibles do you put them and why?
Here is my "For instance" example. This is a note attached to the commentaries section of a passage guide. I can add to the commentaries list by simply pasting a link to other sources that provide commentary on a passage. this lets me build a more complete guide. I find this far more effective then creating a collection search in the guide. You can do the same with the cross-reference section. Add your own cross references to the guide. If the guide is used for sermons you can put the songs that you sung for the message into the music section.
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Thanks. I don't think I will use it, but I was just wondering how someone would.
Again, thanks!
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
I've actually learned to like this feature. When I'm studying through a passage, I can quickly take notes on positions taken by various commentators, note what was important, etc. This way when I open the next day I'm not trying to remember who said what. I suppose in the future, when I come back around to that passage I'll be able to see some of those notes which may be helpful.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?
I do this, but in another program attaching the notes to the verse.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin
Some have used the notes to mark passage all along even in v3, I used v3 notes to do the same thing as v4. I also labeled all my sermons and lessons by their Scripture reference and title- easier to locate by searching.
Thats why I was concerned about how long a PG layout could be saved - indefinately is the answer there I believe. So the notes tab I save to it will always be with that study.
I like to return to them occasionally and review them or modify for SS lessons in a different format.
I use a 1 t-byte external drive so storage is not an issue.
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Kevin A. Purcell said:
But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?
Yes. But I'm hoping for something like this in the future, which would essentially attach the note, and whole passage guide to the passage....
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Kevin A. Purcell said:
But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?
I do this, but in another program attaching the notes to the verse.
Yes you would. The passage guide will show up in future reports under "My Content" so it's easy to stumble back upon a passage guide you've already worked through.
My custom passage guide has a section that reports back not only commentaries but a bunch of Journal Articles as well. It can take a long time to mine those lists for treasures. So my notes are a valuable annotation of which articles I find helpful and which I don't (and potential quick summaries of their content). This saves a lot of time and helps keep my exploration of the passage guide somewhat systematic.
You are right though, those notes are tied to the passage guide, so only make notes there about the results of the passage guide. I simultaneously have notes that I'm working which are tied to the passage.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
So does every passage guide I run get saved for future reference or just those that I give a title to?
I would personally hate it if all of them did.
UPDATE:
OK answering my own questions. Ran a passage guide on Luke 23:32 and then closed it. Ran another one on a larger passage and there was nothing under My Content.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
So does every passage guide I run get saved for future reference or just those that I give a title to?
I would personally hate it if all of them did.
My personal experience is that when I work on them (starring resources and making notes) they do get saved. The only way I know if to get back to them is to run another report that contains their range. They are saved though, but since they don't appear all over the place they aren't clutter. I'm sure they don't take up too much space so I'm glad they do it. Why would you hate it?
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Because it would just be in the way for me. I don't plan to save them that much. If they showed up under my content then that is one more thing there that I would have to wade through. What If over the years I ran a passage guide on a single verse for each verse in a chapter and then ran one on the whole chapter? Lot of waste.
But it is moot as they do not show up.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Kevin A. Purcell said:
But does anyone actually put notes on a passage guide and if so what kinds of things would you put in notes there?
I use them primarily as a to-do list - it was an almost automatic response so I nearly forgot it was new.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Actually the more I think about it the more I wonder if we are not letting our 3.0 thinking hinder us from seeing a better way. Notes in the guides might be the better way to go. If I run an exegetical guide, I can add notes to each individual word. This would get very cluttered in a note file, but the guide organizes them all and gives 1 click access to them. Simply create a guide called "Word Study notes" with only the word for word in it and have it automatically lookup up nothing. Click on the word you want to add a note too. No needing to link to resources, they are all right there. Word study is linked as well. Just add your note to the word.
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I agree with you up to a point - I think you are headed in the right direction but I've not yet been able to get the "perfect" workspace. I do agree that habits from L3 (and other products) hinder us from seeing the best way to use L4.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[quote]
Yes you would. The passage guide will show up in future reports under "My Content" so it's easy to stumble back upon a passage guide you've already worked through.
Jacob,
If I no longer need a passage guide that's listed under My Content, how can I remove it or permantly delete it?
Michael
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RevMichaelLBurns said:
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Yes you would. The passage guide will show up in future reports under "My Content" so it's easy to stumble back upon a passage guide you've already worked through.
Jacob,
If I no longer need a passage guide that's listed under My Content, how can I remove it or permantly delete it?
Michael
As far as I know there is no way to delete it. But the good thing is that it doesn't clutter up any menus (it's not accessible on the File menu); you'll only see it when you run a guide covering a similar verse range.
There may very well be a way to delete it, but I don't know about it, and for me, there is no point to deleting it.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Philip Spitzer said:
Actually the more I think about it the more I wonder if we are not letting our 3.0 thinking hinder us from seeing a better way. Notes in the guides might be the better way to go. If I run an exegetical guide, I can add notes to each individual word. This would get very cluttered in a note file, but the guide organizes them all and gives 1 click access to them. Simply create a guide called "Word Study notes" with only the word for word in it and have it automatically lookup up nothing. Click on the word you want to add a note too. No needing to link to resources, they are all right there. Word study is linked as well. Just add your note to the word.
Philip,
This sounds useful, but you lose me on the "Click on the word you want to add a note too [sic
]" Where is this word since the guide is looking up nothing?Can you show or make up a screenshot?
Chris
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Philip,
Further reflection. Are you able to add a note to a word in an exegetical or custom guide and have the note show everytime you run a guide with a word by word section that includes that word? Or if you run a guide with a word by word section in a guide on an overlapping passage, does it show the note?
I tried it and it doesn't for me. So, unless I run the very same guide, which appears in My Content in a guide on an overlapping section, I can't find the note. If I can't remember where it was that I put a certain note, it's basically lost and useless, isn't it?
So, I don't know how your idea works -- but that is probably very evident by this post.
Chris
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Chris Elford said:
Philip,
Further reflection. Are you able to add a note to a word in an exegetical or custom guide and have the note show everytime you run a guide with a word by word section that includes that word? Or if you run a guide with a word by word section in a guide on an overlapping passage, does it show the note?
I tried it and it doesn't for me. So, unless I run the very same guide, which appears in My Content in a guide on an overlapping section, I can't find the note. If I can't remember where it was that I put a certain note, it's basically lost and useless, isn't it?
So, I don't know how your idea works -- but that is probably very evident by this post.
Chris
That's a very good question and I'm glad you asked because it made me rethink things a little bit. I never thought about how to have notes appear every time you reference a word. So here is how I would work it. record your notes about the word in general on the Bible Word Study Guide. That way these notes are available anytime you look up information about that word. Record notes related specifically to how the word interacts with the text on the Exegetical guide Word for Word section. For more in-depth analysis of the word just click on the word in the Word for Word section and wala, your notes are there. I would use the passage guide note sections for recording links to other Library resources outside of commentaries, or for adding additional cross references, Or Additional hymns that fit the passage, etc. In my mind, this is all very useful and if you had some visual way while reading the Bible to indicate that a guide existed for the passage you were reading...it would all be golden. The effort you put into developing those guides is not lost, but bears fruit a year down the road when you don't have to re-create the guide, but rather pick up where you left off.
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I tried that this morning. It was great to jot down my thoughts right there – it was not great to have them disappear before I could do anything with them! Are they to be found somewhere else?
Maybe I'll find my answer if I keep reading...
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Your notes disappeared from your passage guide? Or your passage guide disappeared?
By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage...notes would be this. But the passage guide note taking area is best for comments which resources are good for what...Notes on the research process, not the research itself.
IF you lost the passage guide notes by closing the passage guide, run the passage guide again and the old one will appear under "My Content"
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob Hantla said:
By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage
What is your primary reason for saying this, usability, portability, or something else?
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Philip Spitzer said:Jacob Hantla said:
By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage
What is your primary reason for saying this, usability, portability, or something else?
For me, it's because the note files will probably have a better longevity (i.e. better chance of being supported in future releases years from now). Also, note files appear linked to the text, so they are easier to find later. In notes, there are more formatting options making note taking there a better option. Finally, writing a super long note in a note file is expected; writing a super-long note file in the comments section of a passage guide will make the passage guide even longer and more unwieldly.
But I do love the notes on the passage guide because it lets me quickly comment on which commentary takes which view. Which is helpful. Which I may want to read down the road. I like being able to star certain resources. These are all things that are likely specific only to the study process on that passage and not on that passage itself. Therefore, to keep them in the passage guide makes a lot of sense.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob Hantla said:
For me, it's because the note files will probably have a better longevity (i.e. better chance of being supported in future releases years from now). Also, note files appear linked to the text, so they are easier to find later. In notes, there are more formatting options making note taking there a better option. Finally, writing a super long note in a note file is expected; writing a super-long note file in the comments section of a passage guide will make the passage guide even longer and more unwieldly.
I understand why you are avoiding them, but do not necessarily agree. I have no knowledge of the probability of long term support but I suspect that the same storage structure is behind all the notes - passage guide notes are simply a subset of notes against a span of verses. Because I use My Content as my primary search mechanism, I find more of my notes than if I use the Bible marking - because I pick up the larger units that overlap my text, even if they start considerably earlier.
I use content as the primary determiner of whether I place a note in a note file or in the passage guide. I wish I were able to put multiple notes on a passage guide section and expand/contract those notes as applicable to a current issue.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Philip or Jacob or anyone else, I'm exploring your ideas of using the notes section in the ExG. But I'm having a problem. I run an ExG on a verse X, make notes on a word Y, close the guide. Later I go back to the ExG on verse X and the notes are there. I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide. Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there. Can you help me?
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MJ. Smith said:
I use content as the primary determiner of whether I place a note in a note file or in the passage guide. I wish I were able to put multiple notes on a passage guide section and expand/contract those notes as applicable to a current issue.
I wish we could have sections we could designate strictly as note sections that we could name. I would use this by creating a note section in a passage guide, naming it "Outline" and creating an outline of the passage, or a sermon outline.
One thing that may help people who want formatting in the guide notes is to create your note in a word processor such as Word and then copy paste it to the guide. for the most part it does a decent job and you can include hyperlinks this way. An "Edit in Word/Import from Word feature would be pretty cool.
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BruceJunkermann said:
I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide. Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there. Can you help me?
I've never had this problem, but I haven't looked for it either. I'll keep a watch out for it.
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Philip Spitzer said:Kevin A. Purcell said:
But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?
Yes. But I'm hoping for something like this in the future, which would essentially attach the note, and whole passage guide to the passage....
Brilliant, Philip! I really like that design. I might have said it before, but I wish you were working for Logos in user interface design.[:)]
Jacob Hantla said:Kevin A. Purcell said:But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?
I do this, but in another program attaching the notes to the verse.
Yes you would. The passage guide will show up in future reports under "My Content" so it's easy to stumble back upon a passage guide you've already worked through.
Yes, but I want to do more than "stumble upon" any passage guides I've saved. Currently that's the only way you can ever find them again. I might remember something vaguely about some notes I'd taken in a PG but not remember where in Scripture they are. The only way to find all my passage guides is to create a PG for the entire Bible! and look in My Content. Last time I tried that, Logos couldn't handle it and crashed. They should provide a list of saved passage guide reports somewhere, so you can go through them and cull the ones you don't need anymore quite easily, or be reminded again something you were studying before.
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And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG....right now...you must pick the EXACT passage again to see your notes...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG....right now...you must pick the EXACT passage again to see your notes...
+1 [Y]
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Rosie, I really like your idea! I hope that is implemented in the future.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Robert Pavich said:
And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG
These are in My Content - I tested yesterday. I would not want the ability to update an overlapping note - to easy to put notes outside where you mean to. To me the current functionality has the appropriate behavior.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rosie Perera said:
hey should provide a list of saved passage guide reports somewhere, so you can go through them and cull the ones you don't need anymore quite easily, or be reminded again something you were studying before.
I agree.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Philip Spitzer said:BruceJunkermann said:
I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide. Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there. Can you help me?
I've never had this problem, but I haven't looked for it either. I'll keep a watch out for it.
Turns out it's just my tired old computer at home. My slightly less tired computer at work saves all changes nicely.
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Jacob Hantla said:
As far as I know there is no way to delete it. But the good thing is that it doesn't clutter up any menus (it's not accessible on the File menu); you'll only see it when you run a guide covering a similar verse range.
There may very well be a way to delete it, but I don't know about it, and for me, there is no point to deleting it.
Jacob, I missed that question embedded in your previous post. FYI, you can delete a saved Passage Guide report by running a PG that spans more than the range of verses in the one you want to delete. You will see a section at the top of the guide that says "See Also" and any other PG report you'd saved before that covered some of the same text.
If you hover the mouse over one of the saved PGs, it pops up a window showing the verse range that PG is associated with, and there's a red X next to the date when it was saved, which you can click to delete it.
This is fine for now, but it's kind of hit or miss. You can't really expect to run a PG on the entire Bible just to find out what old saved reports you might have lying around. I wish they would provide a quick way to see a list of them all, from which you could delete any that you don't need anymore. I know they are probably not taking up much memory, but clutter is still clutter, and I like to clear it out.
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Rosie Perera said:
Jacob, I missed that question embedded in your previous post. FYI, you can delete a saved Passage Guide report by running a PG that spans more than the range of verses in the one you want to delete. You will see a section at the top of the guide that says "See Also" and any other PG report you'd saved before that covered some of the same text.
A while back I thought I tried this and it only removed it from the "see also" section. This time I tried it and it seemed to delete the guide. The problem was it created a guide for the overlapping guide I ran to get rid of the old one! then when I created an overlapping guide of the overlapping guide, it wouldn't show up in the "see also section". It's not an "end of the world" problem but I hope they add that little red box to the "My Content" section. That would solve a lot.
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Rosie Perera said:
I wish they would provide a quick way to see a list of them all, from which you could delete any that you don't need anymore.
missed this in your original post. You can see a list of them all, you can't delete guides from it. Create a guide with only a "my content" section. then run the guide "gen-rev".
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MJ. Smith said:Robert Pavich said:
And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG
These are in My Content - I tested yesterday. I would not want the ability to update an overlapping note - to easy to put notes outside where you mean to. To me the current functionality has the appropriate behavior.
Martha,
Let me explain what I was saying:
I was studying John 3:16 as a test of the note system, and in the PG; it actually showed "John 3:15-18"
So even though, my note was actually relevant to the actual text of John 3:16, it won't show if you type in anything else but EXACTLY John 3:15-18!
You won't see your note if you type in John 3:16, you won't see it if you type in John 3:16-17.....
To me...that's ludicrous!
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Philip Spitzer said:Rosie Perera said:
I wish they would provide a quick way to see a list of them all, from which you could delete any that you don't need anymore.
missed this in your original post. You can see a list of them all, you can't delete guides from it. Create a guide with only a "my content" section. then run the guide "gen-rev".
Yes, I know about that method, but it seems sort of overkill for what we want, doesn't it? Besides, it crashed Logos when I tried that before. Haven't tried it again recently and am not eager to. It took a LOOOOOONG time!
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That's odd, Mine comes right up instantly. Yes it is overkill, but it is the only way to do it that I can think of. For those interested in trying it create a completely blank custom guide. Make sure nothing is in it. having a blank guide is handy for those times you only want to see one or two sections of a passage guide. Run the guide and then add the section you want to see at the time. In this case create a blank guide, run the guide for Gen-Rev, and then add the "my content" section. I currently have only about 30 guides that show up. I don't know how long it would take with more guides, and if you take lots of notes and clippings this would effect it as well, I assume.
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Robert Pavich said:
I was studying John 3:16 as a test of the note system, and in the PG; it actually showed "John 3:15-18"
So even though, my note was actually relevant to the actual text of John 3:16, it won't show if you type in anything else but EXACTLY John 3:15-18!
You won't see your note if you type in John 3:16, you won't see it if you type in John 3:16-17....
Right but the fact that there is such a note appears under "My Content" which is the behavior I would expect and that I want. PG/EG does not support multiple notes in the same section, but even if it did (which I wish it did) I would still want it to show the contents only of the notes attached to that specific span of verses. Note that my spans are often liturgical units where my notes may not be relevant to overlapping spans.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Philip Spitzer said:
That's odd, Mine comes right up instantly.
Well, what do you know! It's working on my machine now, too. And rather quickly, at that. I guess in the past I must have been trying to do a fully populated default Passage Guide, not one with just My Content.
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