ICC : International Critical Commentary

To those who already have and use ICC: What makes this set valuable and useful to you compared to your other commentaries (given the average age of ICC volumes) ?

Do you find the whole set useful or just a very few specific volumes (and if so which and why ?)

On a first round of research it appears to be VERY expensive for a set with most volumes recieving only a lukewarm review and a low rating relative to other commentaries. The set could never have sustained such a high price if everone felt that way about it so there must be more to the story...... Confused

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Comments

DMB

Regarding your last question, your emoticon speaks volumes. Logos is obviously not a supply/demand equation.

And liking a commentary is very personal, which in this case can easily be checked by reading the older PDFs. The newer volumes of course would be author specific.

I buy a lot of the older volumes but recognizing that it's 'touch and go' ... ICC Exodus for example was a complete wash for me. I'd hate to throw a lot of money at 'touch and go'.

Community Pricing is just the opposite. It's also 'touch and go' but not much invested. A single good volume pays for the whole investment.

MJ. Smith

most volumes receiving only a lukewarm review

I don't have the series nor is it on my immediate purchase list, but were the reviews a broad mix of reviews or a particular source?

Mike Childs

Well, I want it. However, the majority of the volumes are old and in public domain, but many of the old ones are still very good. The ICC was done by the very best scholarship of its day. I would like to have them in Logos, but agree those volumes are over priced.

On the other hand the set is being redone volume by volume, and the new volumes are magnificent in my opinion. Cranfield on Romas is the very best thing ever written on the book. Davies on Matthew, Thrall on 2 Corinthians, and I. Howard Marshal on the Pastorals are second to none.

I have three of the new volumes, and so I may just try to purchase the new ones, but they are expensive.

Mike Childs

And liking a commentary is very personal, which in this case can easily be checked by reading the older PDFs.

Denise,

I agree with you. One thing, however. The public domain PDF's of the ICC are not very good. Because the ICC is based on the Greek text in the NT, the OCR used to scan these PDF's is pretty bad in the ones I tried to read.

Most of this commentary is older, but the newer volumes are great, and I wish that Logos would work a deal for just the updated volumes.

George Somsel

And liking a commentary is very personal, which in this case can easily be checked by reading the older PDFs. The newer volumes of course would be author specific.

Feast your eyes on the OT volumnes. http://publishersrow.com/eBookshuk/Book/International_Critical_Commentaries_ICC_Tanakh_Old_Testament_Hebrew_Bible/

David Wilson

The reviews were whatever I could glean from the internet searching for reviews and rankings of various commentaries.

Difficult to rate any such sources as "unbiased" as each has their own perspective and the number of sites reviewing/rating ICC commentaries or ranking various commentaries is very limited.

My comment on pricing is not just related to the cost of the set from Logos, but also the cost of the printed volumes.

Is the cost based on the publishers recognizing that what they have is of interest or value to only a very few potential commentary purchasers, hence they want to recover their costs against a very small potential market who would find them useful, or is the set in reality of interest to a much broader audience but the publishers are stuck in a 1950s paper book marketting price paradigm ? They may as well stick with a set price in the $2000 to $3000 range if their only market is 100 copies a year or less to various institutional libraries and a price reduction to $500 may only sell 5 more copies a year. There are lots of low value high priced resources in institutional libraries.

The message I seem to be getting is that there might be a couple of volumes that people find useful but that the majority are disappointing.

On contrast there seem to be other sets of commentaries where there are many volumes that users are excited about and use often with only a spare scattering of mediocre volumes. So recognizing that no commentary set is uniform, where do logos users think the ICC sits as a set and are there any specific volumes that should be rated highly ?

DMB

Thank you Michael and George for your advice.

I've downloaded the ICC pdf's and am pretty used to digging through the older texts.

And when I can't find something in my main commentaries I head for my ICC pdfs. So I'm not panning them; just the price.

I'll have to try out some of the new ones. I'm kind of thinking AYBC but also wondering whether it's worth the inconsistency.

I was thoroughly underwhelmed by Continental (but like Hermenaia).

Matthew C Jones

I've downloaded the ICC pdf's and am pretty used to digging through the older texts. And when I can't find something in my main commentaries I head for my ICC pdfs.

I have ICC in PDF but have a hard time reading them because my eyesight gets weak sometimes. I have deduced I do want them in Logos whenever it becomes affordable for the moment. (restate that as ,"when Logos' sale price meets my available funds" simpatico??)

I'm kind of thinking AYBC but also wondering whether it's worth the inconsistency.

Any multi-volume commentary is going to have the jewels and the duds. Sometimes I find my favorite authors (Harry Ironside, for example) have their strengths and their weaknesses. But even the multi-author New International Commentary has some great writers (F.F.Bruce) and some not so impressive [:#]. I like AYB for it's wide breadth of perspective. I would not really want anything more liberal than AYB.

I was thoroughly underwhelmed by Continental (but like Hermenaia).

Sorry to hear that. I like Hermeneia and was looking forward to adding Continental to it.

Getting back on topic: I recommend scanning a few of the ICC volumes online. If you like what you see and it is affordable, get them in Logos.Just because a commentary is 100 years old does not negate it's usefulness. Ancient Christian Commentary (available from third party sellers) and Catena Aurea are proof of that.

Matthew C Jones

The reviews were whatever I could glean from the internet searching for reviews and rankings of various commentaries.

I put a lot of stock in the ratings at this website: http://bestcommentaries.com/

Because there is a likelihood of biased reviews, I tend to take the advice of my Pastor friends and Bible students I respect. As much as I like my forum family, there are the wildest differences in our preferences. [C] You can have a little peace of mind knowing Logos will refund your purchase if you discover you purchased a commentary that is horribly disappointing or heretical. [;)]

disclaimer: Hey Denise, I was writing this post while you were writing the one preceding it. I am in no way calling you or Continental Commentary heretical. I don't know either one of you well enough to make a call. [:P] j/k ) I still want Continental & I still enjoy your posts.

Mike Childs

Denise,

How does Hemenaia compare AYBC in your opinion. Which would you recommend if you had to chose?

George Somsel

Because there is a likelihood of biased reviews, I tend to take the advice of my Pastor friends and Bible students I respect. As much as I like my forum family, there are the wildest differences in our preferences. You can have a little peace of mind knowing Logos will refund your purchase if you discover you purchased a commentary that is horribly disappointing or heretical.

The "heretical" ones are the ones I most often enjoy since they offer a different interpretation which should be considered. After all, I already know the traditional interpretation since I grew up with that so why should I be interested in a commentary which simply regurgitates the same-o, same-o?

Mike Childs

I agree with you. One thing, however. The public domain PDF's of the ICC are not very good. Because the ICC is based on the Greek text in the NT, the OCR used to scan these PDF's is pretty bad in the ones I tried to read.

I am mistaken in this. It is the ePub and Kindle versions of the public domain of the ICC that are terrible. The Greek and Hebrew are garbled in these. However, the PDF files are pretty good. I had not realized this.

I would say buy the updated ICC volumes and use the PDF files of the old ones.

Alain Maashe

I would say buy the updated ICC volumes and use the PDF files of the old ones.

If money is an issue (true for for most of us) this is indeed the best course of action.

I just cannot justify buying outdated commentaries at a premium

Praiser

I would say buy the updated ICC volumes and use the PDF files of the old ones.

That is what I had been doing prior to getting the full set.