ICC : International Critical Commentary
To those who already have and use ICC: What makes this set valuable and useful to you compared to your other commentaries (given the average age of ICC volumes) ?
Do you find the whole set useful or just a very few specific volumes (and if so which and why ?)
On a first round of research it appears to be VERY expensive for a set with most volumes recieving only a lukewarm review and a low rating relative to other commentaries. The set could never have sustained such a high price if everone felt that way about it so there must be more to the story...... 
Comments
most volumes receiving only a lukewarm review
I don't have the series nor is it on my immediate purchase list, but were the reviews a broad mix of reviews or a particular source?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
The reviews were whatever I could glean from the internet searching for reviews and rankings of various commentaries.
Difficult to rate any such sources as "unbiased" as each has their own perspective and the number of sites reviewing/rating ICC commentaries or ranking various commentaries is very limited.
My comment on pricing is not just related to the cost of the set from Logos, but also the cost of the printed volumes.
Is the cost based on the publishers recognizing that what they have is of interest or value to only a very few potential commentary purchasers, hence they want to recover their costs against a very small potential market who would find them useful, or is the set in reality of interest to a much broader audience but the publishers are stuck in a 1950s paper book marketting price paradigm ? They may as well stick with a set price in the $2000 to $3000 range if their only market is 100 copies a year or less to various institutional libraries and a price reduction to $500 may only sell 5 more copies a year. There are lots of low value high priced resources in institutional libraries.
The message I seem to be getting is that there might be a couple of volumes that people find useful but that the majority are disappointing.
On contrast there seem to be other sets of commentaries where there are many volumes that users are excited about and use often with only a spare scattering of mediocre volumes. So recognizing that no commentary set is uniform, where do logos users think the ICC sits as a set and are there any specific volumes that should be rated highly ?
The reviews were whatever I could glean from the internet searching for reviews and rankings of various commentaries.
I put a lot of stock in the ratings at this website: http://bestcommentaries.com/
Because there is a likelihood of biased reviews, I tend to take the advice of my Pastor friends and Bible students I respect. As much as I like my forum family, there are the wildest differences in our preferences. [C] You can have a little peace of mind knowing Logos will refund your purchase if you discover you purchased a commentary that is horribly disappointing or heretical. [;)]
disclaimer: Hey Denise, I was writing this post while you were writing the one preceding it. I am in no way calling you or Continental Commentary heretical. I don't know either one of you well enough to make a call. [:P] j/k ) I still want Continental & I still enjoy your posts.
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Because there is a likelihood of biased reviews, I tend to take the advice of my Pastor friends and Bible students I respect. As much as I like my forum family, there are the wildest differences in our preferences.You can have a little peace of mind knowing Logos will refund your purchase if you discover you purchased a commentary that is horribly disappointing or heretical.
The "heretical" ones are the ones I most often enjoy since they offer a different interpretation which should be considered. After all, I already know the traditional interpretation since I grew up with that so why should I be interested in a commentary which simply regurgitates the same-o, same-o?
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
Point well made.if you discoverAre you sure they publish any that aren't heretical?
you purchased a commentary that is horribly disappointing or heretical.
The "heretical" ones are the ones I most often enjoy since they offer a different interpretation which should be considered. After all, I already know the traditional interpretation since I grew up with that so why should I be interested in a commentary which simYes, that is when the fun starts. If I purged my Logos library of those dangerous books, I would only be left with a Bible. Imagine trying to hear from God with just one book!
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Gee, Super Tramp. It's worse than you said.
Right off the bat, before anyone could suggest great Christmas specials, NO AYB!
I keep thinking 'naughty or nice' ... 'naughty or nice' ... 'naughty or nice'.
Mmmm .... which was it? Which 'n' caused them to pull AYB?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Gee, Super Tramp. It's worse than you said. Right off the bat, before anyone could suggest great Christmas specials, NO AYB! I keep thinking 'naughty or nice' ... 'naughty or nice' ... 'naughty or nice'. Mmmm .... which was it? Which 'n' caused them to pull AYB?
Seems like you got TWO lumps of coal in your Christmas stocking! One called Anchor Yale Bible and the other called NICOT/NICNT. You must have been naughtier than we thought. [6]
I am a little skeered I'm gonna get coal too. Any chance we can have an Advent calendar sale or add Hanukkah to the 12 days? Things took a downhill turn tonight when the Pumpkin Bread came out of the oven..... I just want to be happy this Christmas!
Help Dan! don't make me choose.
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Danny,
Logos has hyped the old ICC volumes (not the newer ones that have come out since the mid-seventies) through Twitter lately, too. I wouldn't buy a single one at half price.
I don't know you, your training, calling, or background, but my advice is to forget about it, especially if you were unaware or largely unaware of the ICC before all this promotion and have never looked at any of the volumes, I think you'd end up being disappointed in your purchase. If you don't know Hebrew and Greek, you'd be extra disappointed.
At one time ICC filled a spot that was not being filled by other commentaries. That has changed a lot in the last thirty-forty years and even the newest volumes of the ICC have significant competition. In most people's opinions there are superior volumes for every ICC volume, most of them available in Logos. Most of the ICC volumes you are buying are so dated they are only of interest to scholars, if even to them.
Save the $1200 and use it for resources you really have been looking at. If you are not proficient in Greek and Hebrew, look for less technical commentaries if that is what you feel you need. Lots of thread have been devoted to what those are.
$1200 is a lot to spend. Be convinced you need something before you spend that.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
Well, I want it. However, the majority of the volumes are old and in public domain, but many of the old ones are still very good. The ICC was done by the very best scholarship of its day. I would like to have them in Logos, but agree those volumes are over priced.
On the other hand the set is being redone volume by volume, and the new volumes are magnificent in my opinion. Cranfield on Romas is the very best thing ever written on the book. Davies on Matthew, Thrall on 2 Corinthians, and I. Howard Marshal on the Pastorals are second to none.
I have three of the new volumes, and so I may just try to purchase the new ones, but they are expensive.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Regarding your last question, your emoticon speaks volumes. Logos is obviously not a supply/demand equation.
And liking a commentary is very personal, which in this case can easily be checked by reading the older PDFs. The newer volumes of course would be author specific.
I buy a lot of the older volumes but recognizing that it's 'touch and go' ... ICC Exodus for example was a complete wash for me. I'd hate to throw a lot of money at 'touch and go'.
Community Pricing is just the opposite. It's also 'touch and go' but not much invested. A single good volume pays for the whole investment.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Denise,
I agree with you. One thing, however. The public domain PDF's of the ICC are not very good. Because the ICC is based on the Greek text in the NT, the OCR used to scan these PDF's is pretty bad in the ones I tried to read.
Most of this commentary is older, but the newer volumes are great, and I wish that Logos would work a deal for just the updated volumes.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Thank you Michael and George for your advice.
I've downloaded the ICC pdf's and am pretty used to digging through the older texts.
And when I can't find something in my main commentaries I head for my ICC pdfs. So I'm not panning them; just the price.
I'll have to try out some of the new ones. I'm kind of thinking AYBC but also wondering whether it's worth the inconsistency.
I was thoroughly underwhelmed by Continental (but like Hermenaia).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
I have ICC in PDF but have a hard time reading them because my eyesight gets weak sometimes. I have deduced I do want them in Logos whenever it becomes affordable for the moment. (restate that as ,"when Logos' sale price meets my available funds" simpatico??)
Any multi-volume commentary is going to have the jewels and the duds. Sometimes I find my favorite authors (Harry Ironside, for example) have their strengths and their weaknesses. But even the multi-author New International Commentary has some great writers (F.F.Bruce) and some not so impressive [:#]. I like AYB for it's wide breadth of perspective. I would not really want anything more liberal than AYB.
Sorry to hear that. I like Hermeneia and was looking forward to adding Continental to it.
Getting back on topic: I recommend scanning a few of the ICC volumes online. If you like what you see and it is affordable, get them in Logos.Just because a commentary is 100 years old does not negate it's usefulness. Ancient Christian Commentary (available from third party sellers) and Catena Aurea are proof of that.
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Denise,
How does Hemenaia compare AYBC in your opinion. Which would you recommend if you had to chose?
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
I am mistaken in this. It is the ePub and Kindle versions of the public domain of the ICC that are terrible. The Greek and Hebrew are garbled in these. However, the PDF files are pretty good. I had not realized this.
I would say buy the updated ICC volumes and use the PDF files of the old ones.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
If money is an issue (true for for most of us) this is indeed the best course of action.
I just cannot justify buying outdated commentaries at a premium
That is what I had been doing prior to getting the full set.
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Feast your eyes on the OT volumnes. http://publishersrow.com/eBookshuk/Book/International_Critical_Commentaries_ICC_Tanakh_Old_Testament_Hebrew_Bible/
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן