So... when can I just get a refund for the Sermon File Add-in?

I'm just curious... It's been what, 2 years, since L4 was released. We have been given ETAs over and over for the Sermon File add-in and now the "Missing Features" page is gone. (Well, really replaced with a video on L4.) It seems to be that clearly this isn't a priority for Logos anymore. I mean after two years I've gotten used to not having it anyway. At this point I'm not even willing to ask anymore when it is coming. What I'm going to ask instead, is can you honor the fact that your customers lost functionality they paid for and just refund what we paid for this feature? I'm a solid Logos supporter, paid to upgrade to L4, buy new resources the whole time and just feel it was unfair to drop this feature that many of us have paid for. Let's face it, although it's possible to have side-by-side L3 and L4 installations to use the feature it's not exactly convenient.

Maybe I've missed something and can use PBB to import my Sermons. If so please let me know because I'd love to have an easy way to do that!

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Comments

DominicM

John,

Its not quite the same but have a template Sermon PB http://community.logos.com/forums/t/43877.aspx

May or may not be any use for you

William Gabriel

You paid to go from L3 to L4?

I starting using Logos in earnest just a couple of months ago, but I've actually had L4 for a couple of years...and didn't pay a penny until I bought a base package. I was able to use the free bibles and a few other resources, but I don't recall being charged for the product, just the resources (which you had if you were an L3 user).

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344182#Comment_344182

You paid to go from L3 to L4?

I assume this means the he payed for the "minimal crossgrade." If you owned a L3 base package and wanted some of the new features available to those with an L4 base package, you paid this fee. You could, however, just bring your resources over from L3 into L4 without the added features.

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344194#Comment_344194

I remember those 'features' being discussed and that there were 'no promises' made other than it was said that they would eventually be implemented......

So- Bob. was-up? Whats the word? Talk to us bro.

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/42728.aspx

John Eggen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344194#Comment_344194

Like I said, I support Logos and it's software. Yes, I could have just downloaded the L4 engine with my resources. I happened to have done more than the crossgrade, I actually upgraded my library too. It seems silly that as a customer who has more resources than the platinum library (a lot more) I am complaining about $50... but that's my point. If it isn't a priority I'd rather just get a refund, know the Sermon File Add-In isn't coming and just be done with it. Along with the point of the L4 engine being free, is also the fact that at anytime I could just use L3. My point isn't that L4 isn't great, because I'd handily trade all the new features for not having the Sermon File Add-In. My point isn't even that I've been tricked, it's just that it would be nice to have a clear decision from Logos. Seeing all the beta cycles and new features that were never even on the "missing features" page it seems like this feature is just not a priority anymore.

I'm just saying it feels like we have been following the carrot for a long time, now the carrot might be just gone and nobody seems willing to say, "We've dropped this feature. We're sorry we indicated it would be a part of L4 but have found that the user base is limited and are strategically focusing our development resources on other platforms and improvements."

Oh... and I would actually just echo Bob's comments on this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42728/318291.aspx#318291

We could even create (sorry -- haven't done it yet) a model Word document with structure, markup, and headings that you could paste sermons, illustrations, etc. into and get a well-designed / marked-up Logos book via Personal Book.

Agreed... so could we do that, do another tool, whatever. One of the problems for those of us who used this in the past is we either need to live with a gap between the sermons we already have in Logos and the ones after whatever tool comes out or do a lot of importing in the future, and more with every week that goes by.

Hey... here's an idea. Throw a bone to the people that bought the Add-In by allowing us to be pilot/beta test for whatever this new system is!

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344226#Comment_344226

I am sure bob had said it was dead, am searching for the thread

EDIT

"We need to know if more training/templates for Personal Books means a Word document might meet many users' needs for Sermon File"

so am probably mistaken

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

What I'm going to ask instead, is can you honor the fact that your customers lost functionality they paid for and just refund what we paid for this feature?

Suggest calling Logos to discuss => http://www.logos.com/about/contact

Keep Smiling [:)]

John Eggen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344264#Comment_344264

Just called them and was told it was purchased a long time ago (as would be the case with anyone who purchased this module) and that if I had feedback I should use the suggestion e-mail address. Essentially I was told that they are working on this, it was an add-in not a book and there wasn't anything that could be done about it. I suggested they consider not refunding money but applying a credit to my account as a way of saying, "yes, we over promised, under delivered and haven't handled this as well as we could have." Again, as a customer where this particular add in is less than 2% of my total account at Logos it seems rather inconsequential but I do still believe what I paid for wasn't a product that would only work for a certain amount of time but a product that would allow for future opportunities to easily and quickly contribute my own sermon content to my personal library.

John Eggen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344282#Comment_344282

So here is part of the official reply, " We cannot give you full credit, since the product was purchased 5 years ago and is still usable in the original software. Also, many of the features from the Sermon File Addin are now found in the free Personal Book Builder in Logos 4."

So to Bob's own point... if we can have some templates and how-to docs, while I don't think PBB will be as easy and integrated as SFA was, if that is your reason for not giving a refund or a credit please do tell us how to use it to replicate this feature! I'm excited and ready to do whatever I can to keep track of my sermons in L4.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344282#Comment_344282

if I had feedback I should use the suggestion e-mail address.

Could email Logos suggestions with reference to this thread, including promotion idea for all Sermon File Add-in purchasers.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Leigh Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344299#Comment_344299

I too purchased the SFA and expected it to be brought over to Logos 4. The PB does not do the same thing - in particular the index at the end and the time and place place delivered. I still have Logos 3 on an older computer so I use it to import the sermon files and create the resource,then copy it over with a flash drive to the L4 directory on the newer computer. It then indexes the new Sermon resource and I can use it. The only problem in the active index window is missing in the L4 resource even though it is there in L3.

Brian Kempson

I too am keen to see the SERMONFILE ADD-IN carried across from L3.

Sermonfile was excellent & simply the best way to store & index sermons & illustrations. I don't understand the delay - nor the annoying silence by Logos (they did promised this feature ages ago!) - and I don't understand why there is not more of a demand & outcry from every pastor using L4. I do hope we get some answers and some action very soon.

Regards

Brian

Robert D. Adams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345556#Comment_345556

I too have waited for the sermon file add in.

I still use it on L3. My sermons are indeed a labour of love and so looked forward with anticipation being able to use it in L4. I could visualise being able to reference them more often in future on L4.

Brian Durbin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345638#Comment_345638

I Agree with most of what has been said. IIRC, I purchased my Sermon File add-in right before L4 came out. So yes, while it was a long time ago that I purchased it, I actually lost the functionality almost immediately after purchase. I did not raise issues about it then because they promised it was coming to L4. If I had known that we were still going to be dealing with this years down the road, I definitely would have asked for my refund when I lost my functionality back then.

I love Logos and their software, I'm not going to stop using it because of this problem, and I'm not going to stop buying resources. Especially since this is probably the only time in my history with them where I really feel like they short-changed me.There have been so many more times, though, where I feel like they went above and beyond what was expected.

Ironically, most of the complaints I see in these forums deal with items where Logos was already going above-and-beyond what should be expected. I don't, however, believe this particular issue fits into that case.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345847#Comment_345847

I didn't use the Sermon File add-in, but do believe if Logos decides to abandon it (and that seems to be the decision that's been made) that they should offer credit to those users who request it.

I don't think that 100% is probably the right credit figure, and determining what is fair would be an issue, but I think it is the right thing to do, especially after over two years after the promises were initially made.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345877#Comment_345877

if Logos decides to abandon it (and that seems to be the decision that's been made)

No change on Uservoice:

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345877#Comment_345877

but do believe if Logos decides to abandon it (and that seems to be the decision that's been made)

I seem to remember Bob P. reconsidering this decision ... so while I'm too lazy to search out the post, I'm not sure I agree with you. As my Dad would say "I'm from Missouri" on this one. Now, why "I'm from Missouri" came to mean "I don't know" is beyond me.

Giovanni Baggio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344299#Comment_344299

"We cannot give you full credit, since the product was purchased 5 years ago and is still usable in the original software. Also, many of the features from the Sermon File Addin are now found in the free Personal Book Builder in Logos 4."

Oh boy! Some people just love to *itch a lot don't they. Hey pal, why don't you try going to Walmart buy a Mongoose bike use if for 5 years and then pay for the new Mongoose model and then ask Walmart for a refund on your 5 year old bike and then let me know how that goes.

You gotta be, I said, You gotta be reasonable here sunny. You can't just, I said, You can't just ask for a refund or a credit on something you've already used. If you don't like it then guess what, life isn't fair and not everybody has to like it but your request for a refund or a "credit" LOL that's just preposterous!

Props to Logos for their honest and realistic reply!!!

By the way, if you didn't notice the new sermon add-in for L4 is a brand new improved version of the one they had in L3; so you're prolly gonna have to pay for the new one any way, so start saving now buddy...LOL...if you don't like it, use the old one which as per logos is still usable in the original sofware...ROFLMAO

Giovanni

Ps. So good to be back! I'm leaving soon though so enjoy it while it lasts...LOL

Dennis Parish

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345995#Comment_345995

John, don't assume Logos has given up on the sermon File:

Bob Pritchett Replied: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:30 PM

Well, yes, the tumbleweeds are rolling for Logos 4. Since the major 4.5 release, a whole week has slipped by, and all we've done is ship a beta of 4.5a. Clearly the waters have gone still in Logos 4 land...

:-)

I would like to get on to Logos 5 -- we have some amazing new features/data sets planned -- but there are still a few things planned for Logos 4.

I think the "big rocks" people are still awaiting for Logos 4 are Word Lists, Vocab Lists, and Sermon File. No promises on dates, but we know people are still waiting for these.

You should also see some very cool "bonus" Logos 4 functionality slipping in before 5 arrives...

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345978#Comment_345978

but do believe if Logos decides to abandon it (and that seems to be the decision that's been made)

I seem to remember Bob P. reconsidering this decision ... so while I'm too lazy to search out the post, I'm not sure I agree with you. As my Dad would say "I'm from Missouri" on this one. Now, why "I'm from Missouri" came to mean "I don't know" is beyond me.

Wonder if "I don't know" attitude is related (descended from) to an unofficial "Show me" state slogan ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

Room4more

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/346023#Comment_346023

KS4J,

I think you just went over the border for academic…….hehehehe!

Brian Kempson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345893#Comment_345893

I vote YES - please get it running ASAP - but can't see how to register vote.

Brian Kempson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345877#Comment_345877

This must be the problem - not enough people did use Sermonfile and thus have not realized just how good it was.

As a pastor / preaching I have been hanging out for it for 2 years - it was one of my favourite features of Logos 3.

Is there any way that a straight answer can be obtained from Logos re Sermonfile?

I have grown used to the company going beyond what they have promised so I would be surprised if they have broken this one.

Brian

John Eggen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/346261#Comment_346261

I agree - having the Sermon File is a super helpful feature for regular preachers who want to keep everything organized in L4 and a great resource for doing sermon research... even if it is just remembering what you said last time! A PBB tutorial would certainly be helpful but obviously would still need some of the other meta-data that goes with sermons to make it helpful. (Text, when preached and where as the main ones.)

Stephen Thorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/346288#Comment_346288

I would simply like it to be noted that I was another user who regularly used the Sermon File Addin in L3 and was patiently waiting for it to appear in L4. I found it a really useful tool and am disappointed that so far it hasn't made its way into L4. I love Logos, but am sorry that this feature wasn't rated more highly or discussed more openly. [^o)]

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/346304#Comment_346304

I may have a look at writing a utility to import the source files and convert them into a v4 PB with the indexes you are missing, but as we havent heard from Logos I dont want to spend my next few free days writing it if we are going to have an official release/fix

I do have a few SFA files but TBH didnt really use the SFA, so am unsure what your biggest issue is - I think from what I read its the lack of comprehensive indexes when using the compiled file in v4, but am likely mistaken, so if I am what are you looking for.?

Dennis Parish

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/346304#Comment_346304

Logos is planning the Sermon File add-in before we get to Logos 5. See last post on page 1 of this thread.

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/345556#Comment_345556

I have been running L4 on my laptop and L3 on my computer at the church. Recently I installed L4 on the church computer and it installed all of my sermons from the sermon file add-in. I am wondering why I have them on the computer at the church but not my laptop as well. I have not tried adding more sermons to my sermon file to see if they will update in L4. Has anyone else had this experience? All the links work great.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366276#Comment_366276

I am wondering why I have them on the computer at the church but not my laptop as well.

Personal books do not currently sync between computers.

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366276#Comment_366276

I added another sermon to my file in L3 and then restarted L4 and it was in my sermon file. However, I still do not have them on my laptop. I'm sure there is an obvious reason for those of you who are computer savvy. I just can't explain why the sermons would be in L4 on one computer and not be on the laptop. If I can use the sermon file add-in in L3 to add my sermons from Word and then they show up in L4, why won't they show up on my laptop which has the same sermons in Word. Here's a shot with the new file (Feb 26, 2012). . .I stopped adding sermons last May when I went to just using L4 on my laptop.

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366288#Comment_366288

Thank you for answering so quickly. I should have checked before trying to follow up with another observation.

Robert D. Adams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366288#Comment_366288

I too want this feature.

It is the accumulation of my work as a pastor week to week.

Wonderful thing about the sermon file is that I reference it over and over, use certain parts again, revise, &

work into new sermons. Passage guide(L3) alerts me to subjects covered in old sermons.

Research, study, can be done with various software, books, etc...but getting quick info about what I have on file is of supreme importance to me.

thanks to all others who feel as I do.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366294#Comment_366294

Daniel ... you need to read the Wiki article on SermonFile integration into Logos4. Try taking your portable to church; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Those Logos programmers are amazing.

But seriously, I think everyone is holding their collective breaths on 'how' a sermon entered into L3 gets into Logos4 on your computer.

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366312#Comment_366312

Thanks for your suggestion DMB. I will try your recommendation. I rarely come to the forums anymore (unless I need help) and have not looked at the wiki in a very long time.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366313#Comment_366313

Daniel ... I apologize for my humor ... I should be more clear.

The question everyone's wonder about is how your L3 sermon gets into your Logos4?

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366321#Comment_366321

Daniel ... I apologize for my humor ... I should be more clear.

The question everyone's wonder about is how your L3 sermon gets into your Logos4?

I'm not sure. I decided to install L4 along side the computer that has L3 only because I could no longer get some of my new purchases downloaded to L3. After installation I noticed that I had more resources than on my laptop. Scrolling through my library I came across my sermons. When I added another sermon in L3 and restarted L4 it updated itself and indexed the new sermon I added.

By the way, I don't mind providing a little humor. . .

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366330#Comment_366330

Maaaaybeeee you stumbled into an almost ready new feature!!! If so, it's reading your L3 directory, checking for any that it doesn't know about yet and importing them probably using the PB functionality. That would explain why your other computer doesn't have it?

If so, then the next piece would be ....

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/344356#Comment_344356

The PB does not do the same thing - in particular the index at the end and the time and place place delivered.

When did (how long have) the 3 indexes [Date; Topic; Passage] been working for Sermon File in Logos 4 ?

I do not remember even seeing these links, let alone having them "active" in Logos 4.

Was this announced someplace?

[I do realize that I have to add the sermons through Libronix 3, BUT IF I had known the indexes would work/were working I would have been using this again (after letting it sit idle since Nov 2009 at the birth of Logos 4.)

Thanks

Jesse Blevins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366378#Comment_366378

Any updates on sermon file add in available?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366330#Comment_366330

Daniel ... I apologize for my humor ... I should be more clear.

The question everyone's wonder about is how your L3 sermon gets into your Logos4?

I'm not sure. I decided to install L4 along side the computer that has L3 only because I could no longer get some of my new purchases downloaded to L3. After installation I noticed that I had more resources than on my laptop. Scrolling through my library I came across my sermons. When I added another sermon in L3 and restarted L4 it updated itself and indexed the new sermon I added.

By the way, I don't mind providing a little humor. . .

Sermon files in L3 use the L3 format (lbxlls) after compiling and are stored in a Libronix resource path which Logos 4 can use to copy them over; same as other L3 resources!

They are usually stored at \Documents\Libronix Resources so you can copy them to a removable drive and use the L4 Scan command to get them onto another computer eg. Scan E:\Libronix Resources and then restart L4 (E:\ is the removable drive).

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/366394#Comment_366394

Sermon files in L3 use the L3 format (lbxlls) after compiling and are stored in a Libronix resource path which Logos 4 can use to copy them over; same as other L3 resources!

Thanks Dave. This makes sense now. I didn't realize that Logos 4 would automatically copy my lbxll files. I just assumed that only my resources on file with Logos would be downloaded.