Hebrew definitions in the Mac version
Comments
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We are getting close to the bottom of things here. The light is at the end of the tunnel.
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Homer Russell said:
We are getting close to the bottom of things here. The light is at the end of the tunnel.
"I saw the light. I saw the light." [Sing it] [;)]
You can get the current version from your friendly neighborhood Logos dealer.
You could also get I was going to suggest that you could also get the Hebrew Bible: Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Text, but I don't see it listed—perhaps it only comes in packages.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
The light is at the end of the tunnel.
Hope that it is not just the headlight of an oncoming train [:D]
I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it [:D]
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Jack Caviness said:
I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it
But I saw it. I'll not comment though since you deleted it. Good catch.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Jack Caviness said:
I had said more, but then discovered that I did not know what I was talking about, so deleted the rest before anyone saw it
But I saw it. I'll not comment though since you deleted it. Good catch.
[:D]
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Homer Russell said:
Where do I get the newer version?
Curious about bhs resource(s) in your Logos library ?
Clicked on library icon in Logos 4 Mac, then entered bhs to filter list.
By the way, wiki Using the Forums has => Reply post editor that shows how to quote all (or part) of a previous reply.
George Somsel said:You can get the current version from your friendly neighborhood Logos dealer.
Searching Logos.com for bhs finds some more resources => http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=bhs&start=0&sort=rel&pageSize=30
Appears older BHS resource, which was included in Logos 2.1, is no longer available for purchase.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I thank everyone for your input, but I am still left where I started. I have other versions, newer of the BHS that behave as supposed to in the Mac.
The problem is that the Windows one works, and the Mac does not display a lot of definitions (talking about my older database, the older version of BHS). That to me says it all. The problem is not that the file I have is older (I did not install it on Logos 4, it was all done through the web, it is from them, not from the CD I still have from Logos 2.1), but that it does not work on the Mac.
There has to be a reason that it does not work, and it is not because of the "older file". I am not going to purchase another one I have more than 2 more recent ones, that is not a solution.
I just wanted people to know this happens, and apparently it only happens to me. I will probably be the one who solves it.
This is the most basic of features, the being able to get a definition. Even SeedMaster could do that (with the Strong's numbers). The age of the file does not have bearing. The way that Logos 4 for Mac parses the word has to be the reason.
The lemma for some reason has the letters that have a different final form substituted for the final forms in the beginning and middle of the word. The lexicon does not give the definition because it expects Abraham (using English words for clarity) and it gets abraHam. Abraham is a name, abraHam is not. So nothing happens.
Also, whatever the differences are between the 3.5 morphology and the 4.2 I would have to look into .But if those gave erroneous definitions to everyone who has them there would be a big outcry, not "dish out $99.00" which is what the link tells me (no offense), not Logos having a message saying "We apologize for the inconvenience, here is an updated file that works".. IF that is what the problem is, which I think it is not. (The fact that it is from Logos 2.1 - the same Masoretic text has been around for thousands of years, the 1997 is outdated? - I say this tongue in cheek)
Smiles to everyone [:D]
PS That is what the Logos tech told me when I had another bug with the highlighting, which they did fix; he said that I had an older Nestle 26, and that the new one had been around for years 27, that is. Once they fixed the bug, both the 26 and 27 work the same, I got the 27 when I upgraded but still use the 26 because the OT quotations are in bold, and the 27 has them in italic, and I want them to stand out.
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That list does not include the Anderson Forbes Analyzed Text.
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Homer Russell said:
still use the 26 because the OT quotations are in bold, and the 27 has them in italic, and I want them to stand out.
I'd rather that they stay on the screen. [:D] [:D] [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I am a Charleston Chew kind of a guy myself [H]
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Homer Russell said:
The lemma for some reason has the letters that have a different final form substituted for the final forms in the beginning and middle of the word. The lexicon does not give the definition because it expects Abraham (using English words for clarity) and it gets abraHam. Abraham is a name, abraHam is not. So nothing happens.
Jews don't eat pork.
Perhaps you might try deleting the BHSmorph.lbxlls and letting the system replace it. Perhaps with a fresh start the problem will be corrected. I still think the old format has something to do with it. I agree that the fact that it is an older resource doesn't automatically produce an error, but I've never heard of that error with a newer file (although my BHSmorph.lbxlls is fine).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
I am a Charleston Chew kind of a guy myself
Serious question (sortof). What is "Charleston Chew"?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
What is "Charleston Chew"?
A wonderful red-neck (I would know) candy bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Chew
(Strawberry is my favorite).
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:George Somsel said:
What is "Charleston Chew"?
A wonderful red-neck (I would know) candy bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Chew
(Strawberry is my favorite).
Surprise, surprise !! I guess Wikipedia has an article on just about everything (even candy bars?). My guess, if I were guessing, would have been chewing tobacco, but when I worked weekends (midnight) for a time at 7-11, I don't recall seeing Charleston Chew as a tobacco so I was puzzled. Of course, I also didn't see it as a candy.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
I thank everyone for your input, but I am still left where I started. I have other versions, newer of the BHS that behave as supposed to in the Mac.
The problem is that the Windows one works, and the Mac does not display a lot of definitions (talking about my older database, the older version of BHS). That to me says it all. The problem is not that the file I have is older (I did not install it on Logos 4, it was all done through the web, it is from them, not from the CD I still have from Logos 2.1), but that it does not work on the Mac.
There has to be a reason that it does not work, and it is not because of the "older file". I am not going to purchase another one I have more than 2 more recent ones, that is not a solution.
I just wanted people to know this happens, and apparently it only happens to me. I will probably be the one who solves it.
Personally puzzled about older BHS lemma display and tagging in Logos 4 Mac. Appears workaround for now is using BHS WIVU that is in your Logos 4 library.
Apologies: my initial Logos purchase was Series X so my BHS resources are a bit newer. All the BHS and BHQ editions in my Logos 4 library appear correct on screen along with right click option with correctly tagged lemma.
Also sent an email to Logos 4 feedback with inquiry about replicating BHS issues with older resource file.
By the way, compared to Logos for Mac v1, the initial Libronix 3 port to Mac OS X, Logos 4 Mac can use a lot more resources, including many older files. Logos 4 on Mac and PC share a core code base along with using the same resource files.
George Somsel said:The current version of BHS is 4.2.
Observation: BHS WIVU has 2006 copyright for morphology data while BHS 4.2 has 2004 copyright. Also, BHS WIVU resource has been updated more recently:
BHS with Richter morphology has yet to ship, noticed footnote 1 on comparison page => http://www.logos.com/comparison (albeit am curious about files shipping soon)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I mentioned the whole Charleston Chew thing jokingly since you had mentioned Almond Joy and Mounds [:)]
But I think I will try to delete the file and let Logos replace it. See if it makes a difference.
I never installed Libronix for Mac because it is not compatible with OS Lion.
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fgh said:
Please post the full support info
Agreed. This will also indicate exactly which version of BHS you are referring to. The screen KS4J posted was of the BHS 3.5 w/ Westminster Morph. The curernt version of just the BHS (file name BHS.logos4) is:
2012-03-21T21:13:52Z
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Tommy Ball said:fgh said:
Please post the full support info
Agreed. This will also indicate exactly which version of BHS you are referring to. The screen KS4J posted was of the BHS 3.5 w/ Westminster Morph. The curernt version of just the BHS (file name BHS.logos4) is:
2012-03-21T21:13:52Z
My post is old by now. Since then he has posted the support info. Twice. Plus it's been quoted by George once. [;)] Too many OT posts for you to look through? [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
My post is old by now.
I hadn't seen the page three when I got in. [:$] I'm getting to the many updates to the thread now.
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Tommy Ball said:
I hadn't seen the page three
Or page two, evidently, since that's where the support info is. [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Homer Russell said:
The problem is that the Windows one works, and the Mac does not display a lot of definitions
Can you post screens of the Mac version and Windows version from you doing the exact same thing? I am unfamiliar with Hebrew (if it were Greek I would track with you much better) and when I compared the two context menus from one of your examples (Pslam 34:1), I didn't see any discernible differences.
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Tommy,
- Keep Homer's original post open for reference
- In Logos, go to Ps 32:2
- Right-click on the last word, רמיה
- Look at the lemma in the right column
- On PC it supposedly looks like it should, i e like above. On Mac, with his version of the BHS, it supposedly looks like רםיה
- Notice that the most square of the letters is slightly different. They are both m's, but the one that shows up on the Mac should only be used in final position. (The Greek equivalent would be final sigmas showing up inside words. (Only Hebrew has more than one final letter.))
- Since it's technically the wrong letter, Logos can't find the word in a dictionary
Page one has several screenshots with both the correct and the incorrect mem. Later pages have screenshots showing other final letters in the wrong positions.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thank's fgh for helping me put that together. I'll send this up.If it ends up being something about the OS I'll let you all know.
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Sometimes it's easier to explain someone else's problem. Less emotional involvement. [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Here is my Windows screen shot of the original sample (Psalm 32:2):
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Homer Russell said:
Here is my Windows screen shot of the original sample (Psalm 32:2):
Looking at screen shot, noticed Lemma has vowel pointing in right click menu.
Wonder if Logos 4 Mac is showing final letter form(s) instead of vowel point(s) for Lemma in right click menu ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Looking at screen shot, noticed Lemma has vowel pointing in right click menu.
Wonder if Logos 4 Mac is showing final letter form(s) instead of vowel point(s) for Lemma in right click menu ?
I noticed, going to the original word used in the example in Psalm 32:2, that the doubling dot IS present, but not the vowels:ie: רםיּה (Mac Lemma)And not: רְמִיָּה (Win Lemma)So that... yes, the doubling dot is not a vowel, the vowels disappear, and the letters that appear are the ones that are separated in the character map scheme by only one hexadecimal number!!!Giving credence to the fact that the values of the vowels are translating to some math that ends up only making sense by adding one hex number.But this falls apart in a sense, when one looks at the lemmas in the Mac that to give a definition and are not misspelled. They themselves do not have the vowels, but do, for instance differentiate between the shin and the sin, which are the second S and SH (Samek being the other S, a more sibilant sound). Shin and Sin originally are not differentiated in the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. but in the script used now, a dot is put on the right of the three prongs of the "trident" for the SH sound, and a dot is put above the left of the three for the S sound (ש - alone, that is can be either sound; שׁ - SH; שׂ - S)As in Shibboleth, Sibboleth.Again, the Mac lemma will show the Shin and the Sin, the doubling dot, but not any of the vowels; I am talking about both the lemmas that are spelled right and spelled with the ending letters and which don't give the definitions.So the question for the technicians is "Is it deliberate that the Mac does not show the vowel points?"As a footnote, I have been fooling around with the Hebrew Keyboard in the Mac, I have 3: Hebrew, Hebrew PC, and Hebrew QWERTY.All three of them have a different mapping. I am not sure the PC one is exactly like the one on Windows, because I could not find the Shewa (or Shva, or Sh'va) the one that looks like a colon and is usually silent, placed under a letter (the O is a dot above, the I a dot below, the U a dot in the middle of the vav) in the Hebrew PC (looking at the virtual keyboard - on the PC it is [one has to have the caps lock on and press on the shift key to type them with the Hebrew keyboard] the Shewa is on the left of the 1, where the ` and ~ are).But, see my next posting, I just found out a little more on the Mac error.
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Here is a shot of a Word Study with the first sample I used,, in here, the vowels show. And they are correct. The doubling dot is above the lemma correct, in the spot where the lemma is (with the transliteration: remiy-ya(h)) the doubling dot is on the wrong side of the yod (or yud),
And also, for the TRANSLATION, EXAMPLE USES, GRAMMATICAL RELATIONSHIPS... all down the line, there is NO info. Only the part where it says Hebrew Bible do the references show for that.
I will now show the Windows shot, but got to go to my PC, and even having to use Chrome, for IE does not want to let me get into the user forums, I don't know why.
PPSS Again the previous post did not show the carriage returns! :-)
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Here I show the result of doing a word study of the same word in my Windows version of Logos 4 (both Mac and Win the latest versions as of 6/8/12).
Big difference.
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This, to me illustrates better what might be happening: The program is aware of the correct spelling for the lemma as far as the vowels are concerned, but still using the end forms of the consonants, it breaks up the study also.
I still wonder if I am the only one who gets this on the Mac???
(All of this is in reference to the way the word study displays on the Mac as compared to the way it displays on the PC using the same word)
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