Hebrew definitions in the Mac version
Comments
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Homer Russell said:
The problem is that the Windows one works, and the Mac does not display a lot of definitions
Can you post screens of the Mac version and Windows version from you doing the exact same thing? I am unfamiliar with Hebrew (if it were Greek I would track with you much better) and when I compared the two context menus from one of your examples (Pslam 34:1), I didn't see any discernible differences.
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Tommy,
- Keep Homer's original post open for reference
- In Logos, go to Ps 32:2
- Right-click on the last word, רמיה
- Look at the lemma in the right column
- On PC it supposedly looks like it should, i e like above. On Mac, with his version of the BHS, it supposedly looks like רםיה
- Notice that the most square of the letters is slightly different. They are both m's, but the one that shows up on the Mac should only be used in final position. (The Greek equivalent would be final sigmas showing up inside words. (Only Hebrew has more than one final letter.))
- Since it's technically the wrong letter, Logos can't find the word in a dictionary
Page one has several screenshots with both the correct and the incorrect mem. Later pages have screenshots showing other final letters in the wrong positions.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thank's fgh for helping me put that together. I'll send this up.If it ends up being something about the OS I'll let you all know.
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Sometimes it's easier to explain someone else's problem. Less emotional involvement. [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Here is my Windows screen shot of the original sample (Psalm 32:2):
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Homer Russell said:
Here is my Windows screen shot of the original sample (Psalm 32:2):
Looking at screen shot, noticed Lemma has vowel pointing in right click menu.
Wonder if Logos 4 Mac is showing final letter form(s) instead of vowel point(s) for Lemma in right click menu ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Looking at screen shot, noticed Lemma has vowel pointing in right click menu.
Wonder if Logos 4 Mac is showing final letter form(s) instead of vowel point(s) for Lemma in right click menu ?
I noticed, going to the original word used in the example in Psalm 32:2, that the doubling dot IS present, but not the vowels:ie: רםיּה (Mac Lemma)And not: רְמִיָּה (Win Lemma)So that... yes, the doubling dot is not a vowel, the vowels disappear, and the letters that appear are the ones that are separated in the character map scheme by only one hexadecimal number!!!Giving credence to the fact that the values of the vowels are translating to some math that ends up only making sense by adding one hex number.But this falls apart in a sense, when one looks at the lemmas in the Mac that to give a definition and are not misspelled. They themselves do not have the vowels, but do, for instance differentiate between the shin and the sin, which are the second S and SH (Samek being the other S, a more sibilant sound). Shin and Sin originally are not differentiated in the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. but in the script used now, a dot is put on the right of the three prongs of the "trident" for the SH sound, and a dot is put above the left of the three for the S sound (ש - alone, that is can be either sound; שׁ - SH; שׂ - S)As in Shibboleth, Sibboleth.Again, the Mac lemma will show the Shin and the Sin, the doubling dot, but not any of the vowels; I am talking about both the lemmas that are spelled right and spelled with the ending letters and which don't give the definitions.So the question for the technicians is "Is it deliberate that the Mac does not show the vowel points?"As a footnote, I have been fooling around with the Hebrew Keyboard in the Mac, I have 3: Hebrew, Hebrew PC, and Hebrew QWERTY.All three of them have a different mapping. I am not sure the PC one is exactly like the one on Windows, because I could not find the Shewa (or Shva, or Sh'va) the one that looks like a colon and is usually silent, placed under a letter (the O is a dot above, the I a dot below, the U a dot in the middle of the vav) in the Hebrew PC (looking at the virtual keyboard - on the PC it is [one has to have the caps lock on and press on the shift key to type them with the Hebrew keyboard] the Shewa is on the left of the 1, where the ` and ~ are).But, see my next posting, I just found out a little more on the Mac error.
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Here is a shot of a Word Study with the first sample I used,, in here, the vowels show. And they are correct. The doubling dot is above the lemma correct, in the spot where the lemma is (with the transliteration: remiy-ya(h)) the doubling dot is on the wrong side of the yod (or yud),
And also, for the TRANSLATION, EXAMPLE USES, GRAMMATICAL RELATIONSHIPS... all down the line, there is NO info. Only the part where it says Hebrew Bible do the references show for that.
I will now show the Windows shot, but got to go to my PC, and even having to use Chrome, for IE does not want to let me get into the user forums, I don't know why.
PPSS Again the previous post did not show the carriage returns! :-)
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Here I show the result of doing a word study of the same word in my Windows version of Logos 4 (both Mac and Win the latest versions as of 6/8/12).
Big difference.
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This, to me illustrates better what might be happening: The program is aware of the correct spelling for the lemma as far as the vowels are concerned, but still using the end forms of the consonants, it breaks up the study also.
I still wonder if I am the only one who gets this on the Mac???
(All of this is in reference to the way the word study displays on the Mac as compared to the way it displays on the PC using the same word)
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Homer Russell said:
PPSS Again the previous post did not show the carriage returns! :-)
If you would use a car, you wouldn't need to worry about returning a carriage. [:D] [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
I still wonder if I am the only one who gets this on the Mac???
Likewise wondering if other Logos 4 user(s) on Mac and/or PC are actively using this BHS resource with 1995 WTS morphology ?
Thankful for friendly discussion with Logos that added BHS resource with 1995 Westminster Theological Seminary (WTS) morphology (LLS:1.0.201 bhsmorph.lbxlls) to my library. Posted thread in Mac Beta forum => Bugs: 4.5c Beta 3 - BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology has issues that describes what is different between Mac and PC without offering comments about possibly why. Thankfully Logos developers can investigate to figure out technical details and interactions for the variety of issues.
Thankful for many Logos 4 Mac improvements, albeit => Feature Parity list has a number of known issues.
Thread => Try the Faithlife Study Bible! includes:
Bob Pritchett said:Want more? Take a look at http://Faithlife.com/whatsnext for the actual PDF specifications created by our user interaction designers and provided to our software developers -- you can see exactly what's coming in Faithlife!
One idea for bug reporting is screen shot(s) and/or videos about what is happening, similar to PDF specifications being professionally used by Logos.
Homer Russell said:PPSS Again the previous post did not show the carriage returns! :-)
Personally have learned to use Preview in this forum editor before clicking Post. When sentences run together, have learned to click Compose, then HTML button in editor so can change division (div) to paragraph (p) because division tagging causes sentences to flow together.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I guess the screenshots, etc. went to the other post.
For the record, the Hebrew letters with the different endings are the Kaf, Mem, Nun, Fe (the form is a P or an F, except at the endings, it is always an F) and Tzadei. (There are a number of ways to spell the letters)
To sum up, my
(BHS) will display the above consonants erroneously, not give a definition for those words, and won't do a proper word study.My
(BHS/WIVU) will display the consonants correctly, and give a definitions, but not give proper word studies sometimes (I am still checking, It will not do it right for REMIYAH, but does seem to do it for others).And my
BHS Anderson Forbes works correctly (all of these on the Mac), that is will give the definitions, display the word properly on the Lemma, and give proper word studies.0 -
I refer to the
Bugs: 4.5c Beta 3 - BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology has issues
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/50791.aspx
for the other screen shots I gave in response.
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Homer Russell said:
I refer to the
Bugs: 4.5c Beta 3 - BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology has issues
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/50791.aspx
for the other screen shots I gave in response.
May I remind you that the BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology is no longer sold, has been superceded and is no longer supported. I would suggest that you get the current version. In any case, there is no point in continuing to complain about it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
I refer to the
Bugs: 4.5c Beta 3 - BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology has issues
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/50791.aspx
for the other screen shots I gave in response.
Observation: Logos 4 Mac forum tends to focus on issues in stable Logos 4 Mac releases while Mac Beta discussions tend to focus on issues in beta Logos 4 Mac releases.
The screen shots in Beta thread replies => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/50791/374379.aspx#374379 and => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/50791/374382.aspx#374382 could have been added to this thread since stable Logos 4 Mac (4.5b SR-3) being used. For Bible Word Study with BHS/WIVU, looking forward to stable Logos 4.5c release.
Different Logos resources have different Hebrew Lemma coding conventions, which is an issue => Status: Hebrew Audio Pronunciations Pre-Pub Logos development is currently working on a complex solution to enable Hebrew Audio Pronunciations that is compatible with a number of lemma coding conventions.
Noticed thread => Bugs: 4.5c Beta 3 - BHS with 1995 WTS Morphology has issues has a reply by a Logos employee => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/50791/374443.aspx#374443
Vincent Setterholm said:I suggest you don't use the "1995 edition". In fact, I'd hide that resource so that you're never tempted to look at it again, along with (if you have them) the 3.5 and 4.0 versions of the Westminster database. Major changes to how we handle Hebrew were implemented around the time we shipped the 4.2 version, so digging into the older editions is like taking a time machine back to the Logos of 10 years ago, except worse, because back then we had a number of hacks in place to work around the limitations of not having some features we now take for granted.
If you have the 3.5 version, but not the 4.2, call sales: they can upgrade you for a mere $10. If all you have is the old un-numbered version with the file name BHSMORPH (which was version 2.0 of the Westminster database), then I'm not sure what upgrade pricing is, but give a call to sales. (If you have the 4.0, you should also have the 4.2 - no upgrade fee was necessary to get the minor version number updates.)
Concur with recommendation to contact Logos Sales => http://www.logos.com/about/contact
Thankful for Logos insights about BHS resources with older WTS 2.0, 3.5, and 4.0 morphologies plus upgrade options. Personally use older BHS resources for nostalgic comparisons (e.g. troubleshooting). Logos 4 English Reverse Interlinear Bible resources and Lexham Hebrew Interlinear use same morphology as "The Hebrew Bible: AFAT".Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thank you for your great advice, Keep Smiling for Jesus!
I will do the thing with sales, that is the info I really needed. The thing you said about the previous engine makes sense.
Thank you. [8-|]
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Vincent Setterholm said:
If you have the 3.5 version, but not the 4.2, call sales: they can upgrade you for a mere $10.
Anyone has a 3.5 to spare? [:P]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:Vincent Setterholm said:
If you have the 3.5 version, but not the 4.2, call sales: they can upgrade you for a mere $10.
Anyone has a 3.5 to spare?
Are you serious? You know that would require a $20 transfer fee by itself bringing the cost of upgrade to 4.2 to $30.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Are you serious? You know that would require a $20 transfer fee by itself bringing the cost of upgrade to 4.2 to $30.
4.2 costs $99.95. [;)]
But given the Forum Guidelines I guess I can't be serious, can I? [:P][:(]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:George Somsel said:
Are you serious? You know that would require a $20 transfer fee by itself bringing the cost of upgrade to 4.2 to $30.
4.2 costs $99.95.
But given the Forum Guidelines I guess I can't be serious, can I?
I would suggest first contacting a sales rep to see what kind of deal he can offer (whoever it is who wishes 4.2).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Homer Russell said:
In the PC the lemma correctly displays as רמיה and the Mac version's lemma shows רםיה !!!
The letter is the correct letter, the Mem (the Hebrew M). But the form is the ending form of Mem.[...]
Something happens with the Mac version that changes the letter in the lemma to the ending!
The issue with the "mem" character you describe has been fixed in the next update.
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Ann Boyles said:Homer Russell said:
In the PC the lemma correctly displays as רמיה and the Mac version's lemma shows רםיה !!!
The letter is the correct letter, the Mem (the Hebrew M). But the form is the ending form of Mem.[...]
Something happens with the Mac version that changes the letter in the lemma to the ending!
The issue with the "mem" character you describe has been fixed in the next update.
Concur Logos 4.5c Release Candidate 1 (4.53.0.2254) on Mac includes "mem" fix.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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