Logos Is Too Expensive
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[:)]George Somsel said:The whole congregation of the Israelites complained
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Chris Roberts said:
Other companies have the same expense needs for developers, servers, support, etc, yet manage to sell public domain resources at less than a tenth the price.
A little-known tid-bit is that many times Logos pays to have a public domain work typed for the first time, then another company grabs the files and uses those keystrokes for their edition. So some of the things that are much cheaper are only that way because Logos first absorbed the keyboarding costs.
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Bob Pritchett said:Chris Roberts said:
Other companies have the same expense needs for developers, servers, support, etc, yet manage to sell public domain resources at less than a tenth the price.
A little-known tid-bit is that many times Logos pays to have a public domain work typed for the first time, then another company grabs the files and uses those keystrokes for their edition. So some of the things that are much cheaper are only that way because Logos first absorbed the keyboarding costs.
Yes some less reputable companies do that, and Logos has the right to make money on ALL resources it sells, some people have been wondering why the PD resources are priced so high, as I understand it (forgive me if i am wrong) PD works do not go into production till enough orders are place in Community Pricing to cover production costs. If production costs are covered by CP, then why do they get priced so high after they are made and things like what happened in march madness this year.
Quote from "
Anybody have an extra 500 votes?"
Spurgeon's Treasury of David back after march madness, I can sort of understand the complete collection not being in the sale but I cannot fathom why Treasury of David as a set is not in the sale, I would have gladly purchased it withe the discount, but Logos trying to tell me they are giving me a great deal selling me each individual volume of the TOD for about $20 each when they always sell all 6 volumes together for a regular price of 59.99???? Sorry I see little logic in them breaking up a set setting some huge price per volume and then allowing you to have a discount via a promotion that ends up you paying almost double regular pricing???? I wonder how many other "Bargains" Logos is offering that in effect work out to much more than their regular prices.
So you see why people are concerned with the pricing strategy of PD books.
-dan
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I can't help but feel like much of the discussion here has been wasted, because most of the users on this forum have been long time buyers of Logos software and will obviously defend their decision to buy the program. I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy. That being said it is incredibly hard to find the extra resources to purchase a decent Bible Software program to grow in our faith. Keep in mind that Logos aren't the only 'Christian Businesses' charging an arm and a leg for their resources ... but they are certainly one of the biggest. I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program. Perhaps my point is getting a bit off topic, but I always thought Christians were supposed to gather together to make our community of believers stronger by working together towards a goal. Unfortunately all I see is a secular company monopolizing on the Christian buyers market.
I wouldn't argue with the fact that it is good business to charge the prices they are charging ... but I don't have to agree with that philosophy.0 -
Well, you're right about Logos 'lowering the bar'. These days with my other commercial Bible software, I start seeing them doing a 'Logosian'. Sigh. Pretty soon they'll all have to rename themselves to 'Kind-of-Have-Something-to-Do-With-Religious'y-Literature Software Company'.
But I'll have to give Logos credit. My other company (a) doesn't let me download all my mobile books to my PC (probably license rights?) and (b) doesn't answer emails as to why not. I'm too lazy to call them up. Easier to use Logos!
Yeh Logos!!!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Joel,
I appreciate your position, however I'm not that long a Logos User. Only about a year or two. I did my research, and felt like Logos was the best bang for the buck.
I heard a pastor say once you don't need a big library to grow, start with your Bible. If you want more a good commentary helps, a systematic theology (I like Wayne Grudem's) and a Bible Dictionary should be all you need.
In Him,
Jim
Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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Joel Reed said:
I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.
Now the truth begins to come forward. Your sole object in posting on the forum is to bash Logos and attempt to decrease its market share. You have at no point given any indication that you have ever even once used Logos yet you're against it. I think your ploy is despicable and totally non-Christian.
BTW: You called me a jerk for labelling your enterprise a hobby. It's as though you think there is something wrong with having a hobby whereas a hobby is something you do because you enjoy it, not necessarily because you make a profit from it. A profession is what pays the bills. A hobby may make a contribution to paying the rent/mortgage, utilities and put food on the table, but that isn't its main object. If anything labelling something a hobby indicates that you like it whereas you may thoroughly dislike your profession (in which case you might consider something else).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I think this is unnecessary.
In Him,
Jim
Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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I agree with everything Joel has said ... he is clearly a genius and potentially the greatest mind of our century.
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George Somsel said:Joel Reed said:
I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.
Now the truth begins to come forward. Your sole object in posting on the forum is to bash Logos and attempt to decrease its market share. You have at no point given any indication that you have ever even once used Logos yet you're against it. I think your ploy is despicabble.
Dude, seriously, calm down ...
That was not my intent at all, so you can stop with the slander.
I started this post because I genuinely thought Logos is too expensive ... so sue me.
What I said in my last post was really just me thinking out loud and getting off topic so try and relax my friend.
* Oh, and thanks for all the kind words Sock Puppet ... although I don't know if I would take it that far ... [;)]0 -
Joel Reed said:
I always thought Christians were supposed to gather together to make our community of believers stronger by working together towards a goal. Unfortunately all I see is a secular company monopolizing on the Christian buyers market.
I wouldn't argue with the fact that it is good business to charge the prices they are charging ... but I don't have to agree with that philosophy.I am starting to understand now. Joel, I would be interested in reading your two books, as I am sure everyone here would be. Would you mind posting them so that we can make them into Logos Personal Books? That way we could freely distribute them, and they would have Logos tagging to boot! Thanks in advance.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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No, you don't have to agree. You are entitled to be as wrong as you want to be. Even if you stand there all alone.Joel Reed said:I don't have to agree with that philosophy.
From the "uselessness" of the lower base packages....to the "overpricedness" of the resources beyond Portfolio; your business acumen has proven flawed. Logos has created products for a targeted market-share.
Some people would rather have a luxury car than $40,000 worth of Bible study software. Not me. When they box up my old, tired body, and plant it in the cemetery, the luxury car changes ownership but the meditation on God's word will cross over into my next abode. Logos is a tool that has eternal benefits if you will only use it.
In a sense I agree, Logos ministers to my spiritual needs ut I maintain they are a business and NOT a ministry.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Nothing Would Please Me More!
2260.The Book of Life - Joel Michel Reed & Nathanael Reed.pdf
6114.The Book of Dreams - Joel Michel Reed & Nathanael Reed.pdf0 -
Joel said:
* Oh, and thanks for all the kind words Sock Puppet ... although I don't know if I would take it that far ...
Whose "sock puppet" is he with 1 post (here)—yours?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Joel, I do not understand how you can criticize us for spending "too much" on Logos when in your book "Book of Life" your opening scene has the principal characters drinking champagne at a fine restaurant. Why is the temporal pleasure of food ok while expensive Bible software is not? I also challenge the all-knowing wisdom of any human to decide when they can "afford" to start a family (like the characters are discussing at their meal.) You see, my wife and I have 13 children under God's planning and also afforded many 10s of thousands of dollars in Logos software.
I guess what I am saying is a "sticky toffee" may be a luxury to some but I WANT ITALL when it comes to enjoying blessings from God. That would include having the best and most expensive Bible software available.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Come on guys can we let this rest? You all have made your point - Pro Logos/Love Logos, let's move on.
Joel for my part welcome to the forum and God bless.
Regards
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Joel (Reed) ... just a bit of advice on this forum. When you see an entry with a single post or two, don't make assumptions on who you're chatting with. It's not difficult for others to post as if they're you.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Super Tramp said:
Joel, I do not understand how you can criticize us for spending "too much" on Logos when in your book "Book of Life" your opening scene has the principal characters drinking champagne at a fine restaurant. Why is the temporal pleasure of food ok while expensive Bible software is not? I also challenge the all-knowing wisdom of any human to decide when they can "afford" to start a family (like the characters are discussing at their meal.) You see, my wife and I have 13 children under God's planning and also afforded many 10s of thousands of dollars in Logos software.
I guess what I am saying is a "sticky toffee" may be a luxury to some but I WANT ITALL when it comes to enjoying blessings from God. That would include having the best and most expensive Bible software available.
I hope you're joking. [*-)]
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Joel Reed said:
Please tell me if I'm way off base here ... but I'm sure there are many of you out there who have experienced the same thing.I am one of those who think that some of the resources are ridiculously expensive. I posted an example about two weeks ago on the very same subject (for example http://www.logos.com/product/4104/a-critical-and-exegetical-commentary-on-numbers only 95$ for a resource that was published in 1905 and can de downloaded for free at archive.org or http://www.logos.com/product/3923/the-works-of-jonathan-edwards for 119). That being said, I don't think the base packages are too expensive since Logos has to pass some of the revenue back to the publishers. You will find some very good bible study tools that are indeed free but as soon as you want to add some more recent Bible translations you have to start paying.
Joel Reed said:
.. charging $150 for a basic Bible software package including no more
than a Few Bibles, References and Commentaries ... most of which you can
find for free on any eBook website!.Well, you could go to a junkyard and get a bunch of car parts for free or for cheap, but that doesn't mean you will end up with a cheap or good car. People buy Logos because it is a good software solution that helps them do what they need to do more efficiently than by buying cheap books individually. I know for one that Logos helped me many times.
That being said, after spending a lot of money on Logos I will NOT purchase Jonathan Edward's works for 120 (or for half that price either) or anything similarly priced for resources out of copyright. I will instead use PBB and build my own resource. I will spend 95$ for a book out of copyright ONLY when I absolutely need it or I lost the use of my mental faculties.[:)]0 -
George Somsel said:
I think your ploy is despicable and totally non-Christian.
I think Joel is completely off base. He continues to state that Logos is overpriced "software" when in fact the software can be used in a completely free fashion.
That said George, in regard to your comment, I think of the old saying, "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."
Donnie
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Joel said:
I hope you're joking.
Not at all.
God calls children a blessing and debt a curse. Only in America do we "plan" against receiving a blessing and apply in triplicate to receive a curse.
My marriage has been thus blessed 19 times (6 already in Heaven)
My Logos account reflects my appreciation of fine Bible software and my lack of love of money. [;)]
I will even spend lots of cash on a good Sushi restaurant.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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ST ... comparing Logos to sushi was COMPLETELY uncalled for. Anything else maybe. But sushi? It's just VERY unfair to Logos.
We all DO remember the good Savior, not long before his departure, was BBQ'ing fish on the shores of Galilee, and was so happy to see 'the boys' bringing in a boatload of sushi!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Oh Joel,
My wife has also been a stay-at-home Mom and home-schooled all the young-uns. I just want to point out it is possible for a single income (yes, a modest income) family to buy Logos software. People will make a way to afford what they really appreciate.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Perhaps that's true, but the point I am trying to make is that Logos is too expensive, not whether or not I can save up enough money to buy it.Super Tramp said:Oh Joel,
My wife has also been a stay-at-home Mom and home-schooled all the young-uns. I just want to point out it is possible for a single income (yes, a modest income) family to buy Logos software. People will make a way to afford what they really appreciate.
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Joel, I know that you were inundated with responses (and many less than friendly), but I do believe that there were a lot of reasoned responses that you dismissed. I do intend to read through your books by the way.
Also, why did you start a new ID?
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Joel said:
Perhaps that's true, but the point I am trying to make is that Logos is too expensive, not whether or not I can save up enough money to buy it.
But that is simply not true when you compare the minuscule cost of Logos compared to what most Christians spend on entertainment (sports & recreation included.) Mary Pride wrote decades ago we can tell what gods a nation worships by the cost of their temples. Every hospital, sports stadium, fancy eating spot are witnesses against us that we could have spent more money on Bible study software.
Hey Dan Pritchet, It's time for a "beat the heat" summer sale. Turn off the air conditioners and spend the savings on some new Logos resources.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Having spent most of my adult life in a service business I can say with certainty it is up to the market to determine what the price point for any product or service will be.
Logos products are priced based on the business decisions of those who run the company. As long as they see a revenue stream and profit margin they are satisifed with, they probably will not (and should not) be concerned with reducing prices. If they see margins drop they will have to determine if increasing the cost of their products, reducing the cost of producing the products, or a combination of both is required.
Bottom line...if the product or service (logos or anything else) you consume is a good value to you, but it. If it's not don't buy it.
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Fredc said:
Having spent most of my adult life in a service business I can say with certainty it is up to the market to determine what the price point for any product or service will be.
Logos products are priced based on the business decisions of those who run the company. As long as they see a revenue stream and profit margin they are satisifed with, they probably will not (and should not) be concerned with reducing prices. If they see margins drop they will have to determine if increasing the cost of their products, reducing the cost of producing the products, or a combination of both is required.
Bottom line...if the product or service (logos or anything else) you consume is a good value to you, but it. If it's not don't buy it.
Fred, I noticed in the introductions thread that came back up recently that you are from Warrior, AL. I am right here in Kimberly and I teach at the high school. It is truly a small world.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I agree, there were some great responses, and I do appreciate them very much.Joseph Turner said:Joel, I know that you were inundated with responses (and many less than friendly), but I do believe that there were a lot of reasoned responses that you dismissed. I do intend to read through your books by the way.
Also, why did you start a new ID?
However, that doesn't really change my opinion regarding Logos charging too much for their products.
Thanks for giving my books a chance, we're almost finished our third installment so I might come back and post it in the future.
I actually forgot that I had already signed up for an account, so I ended up with another one. (Different email address that I also use regularly)0
