Logos Is Too Expensive
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I had quick verse also for years also and can tell you that there is no comparison. You can purchase the scholars package for about $300 more and get a tool with features that no other bible program offers in one package.
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I also still have two copies of QV and neither one of them are loaded. The newer versions became less user friendly and much more expensive, without any added value.
In Him,
Jim
Philippians 2:3Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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Joel Reed said:
I can't help but feel like much of the discussion here has been wasted, because most of the users on this forum have been long time buyers of Logos software and will obviously defend their decision to buy the program. I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy
Joel, I don't think it's that. My wife and I are on a single income as well, though we don't have children (unfortunately). The simple fact is that for quite a few of us (including myself), the pricing of Logos resources, and the convenience of the massive information architecture in which they arrive, is overwhelmingly cheaper and more useful than the truly ridiculous prices we used to pay for academic works in print.
Joel Reed said:I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.
No one is going to publish academic works from Brill, Continuum, and Sheffield, in an open source Bible program. The licensing fees for these academic titles would destroy them.
Joel Reed said:Perhaps my point is getting a bit off topic, but I always thought Christians were supposed to gather together to make our community of believers stronger by working together towards a goal.
I see Logos doing that admirably.
Joel Reed said:Unfortunately all I see is a secular company monopolizing on the Christian buyers market.
Logos is popular because it's incredibly more affordable than most of the alternatives people have. However, Logos has no power to enforce its market presence; it doesn't have a monopoly, it just has a very well earned dominant market share.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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In the early nineties, when I was single and had money, I purchased and evaluated all of the Bible software programs for the PC. It was apparent even back then that Logos was winning the race to create the best Bible software and with the most resources. Furthermore, the Pritchetts put theIr reputation on the line by identifying with their product. How many of the Pritchetts can you name? Tell me one other product you are aware of that you can name as many of the owners. That tells me they have been listening to their customers.
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Milford Charles Murray said:
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles. It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs...... But, it's in the works ..... *smile*
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources I started with Level 2 in 1996 and progressed via Pastor's, Silver and Gold to Platinum always adding other items as I went. There have been a few big ticket items along the way but most of my transactions were less than £30 and my average spend has been £12 per week.
The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...
I know that if I was new to Logos today I could not afford to start at where I am today, I just don't have the cash but, based on my experience, I'd start the journey so that I can eventually have the library I aspire to.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages,
I completely agree with this, I started with scholar's and added and upgraded since then giving me a nice bible study package.
Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing. Joel feels it's to expensive for him. That's fine. I do not. I enjoy what I have and love it for diving into the scriptures.
In Him,
Jim
Philippians 2:3Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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James Chandler said:
Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing. Joel feels it's to expensive for him. That's fine.
I agree that this is a very personal issue it just seems to me that the expectations of some new users are simply unrealistic. I looked at some of the alternatives, at a point in time when Logos 4 was frustrating me like crazy, and concluded that to rebuild what I need out of what I have (if that makes sense) would require a similar investment with the only real difference being what I call the filler material. I also concluded that Open Source was not an option for the range of materials I want/need.
I would personally be more inclined to agree if Joel had said that the Logos entry point for serious/prospective scholars is too high! Personally, my development has mapped quite well to the Logos structure and the 'lighter' materials suited me at the beginning. I think that there could be room for a Scholars Essentials with some core Language Tools, a good set of commentaries and very little 'fluff' at the low end but that is a slightly different debate.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources
This is the same error young adults are tormented with. A young man leaves home, gets a job and marries his bride. He then tries to acquire in 6 months everything he sees in his Father's and Father-in-Law's estates. He never pauses to consider they have been building their wealth for thirty years or more.
Graham Owen said:The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...
This is true. The key is to convince yourself (and your wife) that the parables of the Pearl of Great Price or the Hidden Treasure is a good approach to de-cluttering your life and focusing on Bible study. I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources. I have 4 guitars left and find they suffice. I also sold my classic cars, my home studio, and other "obsessions." Employing this principle of "selling all that I had" to purchase Logos resources made it possible to build an immense library in 4 years instead of 16.
My wife is quite different. She started with the Bible Study Library. I upgraded her to Scholar's and she wanted to downgrade back to her original package.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.
I am in awe!!! Now to go completely off topic...
How did you decide what to keep?
As my collection grew I did a little pruning and decided I wanted versatility and needed to avoid duplicate sounds, I ended up at 6:
My work horse is a Takamine EN10c, well worn and over used but I love it.
My favourite is a Yamaha AEX1500 designed in conjunction with Martin Taylor, warm Jazz plus a Piezo.
For Nylon its a Yamaha APX10NA, great for handling the solos in a musically conservative Church setting.
Proper rock is a Yamaha MSG Deluxe, twin humbuckers, coil taps, whammy bar, heavy like a Les Paul, shaped like a mini 335. Probably my most versatile guitar, I can almost get a Tele sound out of it at least one that would fool a non guitarist!
When I'm not quite sure what I need its a Yamaha SA800, I love semis, this is the last of my Yamaha's when I was 18 I said I would never own a Yamaha guitar because they were too clinical and sterile, wisdom came with age plus I think they got some better designers.
Finally the single coil stuff is covered by a Fender Squire Tele from 82, classic butterscotch and part of the second batch built in Japan for Fender using genuine US hardware. Its awesome, did not cost a lot and is the only guitar I have that is worth a lot more than I paid for it. Had to rewire it as it had the capacitor fitted for really woolly sounds. Main reason for having a Tele is that I have never found a Strat that could tempt my credit card out of my wallet. I came close 3 times but so far have resisted. Never say never though.
The acid test has always been can Barbara, my wife, hear the difference when I switch guitar. She is very musical, a great singer and objective. This collection pasts the test...
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Super Tramp said:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.
Now THAT is commitment!
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Graham Owen said:
How did you decide what to keep?
Most were easy to let go of. My autographed guitars (QUEEN, Genesis, Supertramp) brought lots of $ for Logos and I never played them anyway. Other guitars were sold to famous people who play them better than I only regret selling the Gibson ES135, a Morris jazz hollow-body and a Morris neck-thru solid body. My "keepers" are:
- Morris 12-string
- Morris 6-string cutaway finger-picking Martin strings
- Fender Squire Bullet w/custom neck & Burns Tri-Sonic pups
- Morris Les Paul custom boutique over-wound pups potted in beeswax, switches in/out of phase, treble boosted
I have also parted with tools, cars, home studio equip and lots of books. I have been very happy with the Logos resources I got in the "trades." [:D]If a fellow has nothing to sell off he can eat ramen noodles for a year and swing some of the food budget to Logos. There are no fat kids in my house.[6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.
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Joel said:
Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.
Peace to you, Joel! God Bless you and your Loved ones richly! Thank you for coming back to this thread to bid all a friendly and truly gentle and humble (in a Christian sense!) Fare Well! *smile*
Much appreciated!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Amen!
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Just my two cents.
Yes some packages are not really useful. Why don't just download the Logos4 base package and then order whatever you think is useful?
Business is business they need to pay the employees, benefits, tax...etc
I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00
If you cannot afford Logos why don't try Bibleworks, e-sword...etc
E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:
For example you need to pay around couple hundred dollars on Lange commentary in Logos but e-sword is free for you and also a lot of useful exegetical commentaries.
just my 2-cent
Kelvin
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Kelvin Chiu said:
I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00
Took me more than a couple of years to reach $20k
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Kelvin Chiu said:
E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:
I think I will go over to that website and post the Logos Free Book of the Month. And then I will post a ditty about the FREE Perseus library. Andd maybe something about free Vyrso books.....
Then I will let all the users know my per book cost for 10,000+ Logos books was less than $4. That included NICOT/NICNT, Lange's and Zondervan's.
I just don't get why users can't afford $4 a book and why WS, QV, and BW can't match it.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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What a great tread! [:)]
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Nah. It's actually an intriguing (and great) tread. It's like a British or American political debate. Good points are made on both sides and it keeps going and going and........
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
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Super Tramp said:
I just don't get why users can't afford $4 a book
Neither, do I
Super Tramp said:and why WS, QV, and BW can't match it.
I don't know anything about WS or QV, but as for BW their marketing strategy is very different from everyone else so this is like comparing apples with oranges. They sell only one basic product with the 'works' which includes actual manuscript images, new transcriptions and a lot more and a few add modules for those whom need it. It really all depends on what one wants, if it is a growing theological library (with exegetical resources) then no one can beat Logos! If, on the other hand one isn't interested in building a library, and doesn't care about having commentaries (which BW as a matter of principle doesn't offer), and they only want great exegetical tools then I think BW is far cheaper then anyone else out there.
(But keep in mind BW is not trying to match Logos in the sale of commentaries and christian fictional works. BW is strictly an original language resource suite)
I speak as one who owns (or rather have acquired license for) Logos4 OL (with a lot of add ons), the Libronix SESB 3, and BW9 (and finds high value in all three software platforms!). And, I can tell you that:
Logos4 is not too expensive for those who want the widest range of modern resources and exegetical tools. No, one else comes even half way close to offering what Logos does.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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This topic is getting rather interesting, but I think this is my favourite suggestion. The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages. (Such as 'The Message' translation ... that's about as lame and heretical as it gets)Kelvin Chiu said:Yes some packages are not really useful. Why don't just download the Logos4 base package and then order whatever you think is useful?
Kelvin
There are also a lot of resources that Logos doesn't offer with their software, or even on their website, so perhaps the best way to accomplish my particular goals would be purchasing the books I actually want to own rather than simply getting a bunch of books I don't really need.0 -
Milford Charles Murray said:
Peace to you, Joel!
God Bless you and your Loved ones richly!
Thank you for coming back to this thread to bid all a friendly and truly gentle and humble (in a Christian sense!) Fare Well!
*smile*
Much appreciated!Thanks for the kind words!
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Joel, that is a wise approach. I'm avoiding "Bible" versions that I don't want myself too, such as the NLT, 2011 NIV, Message, NKJV. My choises for base-packages were OLL (it has the least amount of such versions) and Catholic Foundations (there were authors that I don't want such as Raymond E. Brown and Joseph Pohle and a lot of John H. Newman -titles in the higher packages and Catholic Library Builder (238 vols.)). I'm supplementing with what I really want.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
I am way late to this conversation, but the idea that Logos is too expensive is just an excuse. It lives and dies around shopping. The real goal is doing careful Bible study for the defense and proclamation of the Gospel.
When I decided to plunge ahead to get Logos 4 Scholar, I really couldn't afford it and asked my pastor and the board to pray for me if this was really something I should do. They agreed with my decision. And someone heard that decision and sent me a check for the full amount.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Joel Reed said:
The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages ... the best way to accomplish my particular goals would be purchasing the books I actually want to own rather than simply getting a bunch of books I don't really need.
This is what I have done, and this is what I recommend people to do.
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I came so late to this topic, but I think that the words of Michael are the best to describe it.
It's not too expensive as most of the people wrote here...
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tom collinge said:Joel Reed said:
The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages ... the best way to accomplish my particular goals would be purchasing the books I actually want to own rather than simply getting a bunch of books I don't really need.
This is what I have done, and this is what I recommend people to do.
If I recall correctly, you have to purchase some base-level package to have access to all the features in the software itself. In addition to the completely free but feature-limited version of the software itself, perhaps Logos could offer a full-featured version of the software for a nominal price. This would allow people access to those extra features while having explicit control of every single resource they decide to purchase.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
If I recall correctly, you have to purchase some base-level package to have access to all the features in the software itself. In addition to the completely free but feature-limited version of the software itself, perhaps Logos could offer a full-featured version of the software for a nominal price. This would allow people access to those extra features while having explicit control of every single resource they decide to purchase.
You might direct such people to http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade
Have joy in the Lord!
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Michael Ballai said:
When I decided to plunge ahead to get Logos 4 Scholar, I really couldn't afford it and asked my pastor and the board to pray for me if this was really something I should do. They agreed with my decision. And someone heard that decision and sent me a check for the full amount.
Praise the Lord!
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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If you look in your Logos resource 'Heretics of the Early Church' (rev version), that third one is listed as in the late 6th century CE explaining why he's not discussed by the early church fathers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Sogol said:Joel Reed said:
The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages. (Such as 'The Message' translation ... that's about as lame and heretical as it gets)
Arius, Pelagius and Eugene Peterson?
Add to that the KJV translators.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Oh, No, You didn't !!!!!! [:^)]George Somsel said:Add to that the KJV translators.
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DMB said:
If you look in your Logos resource 'Heretics of the Early Church' (rev version), that third one is listed as in the late 6th century CE explaining why he's not discussed by the early church fathers.
Yes, I believe he was condemned at one of the ecumenical councils, but the Fathers "forgot" to record it because they were secretly fans of his other books on prayer and ministry.......
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Sogol said:Joel Reed said:
The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages. (Such as 'The Message' translation ... that's about as lame and heretical as it gets)
Arius, Pelagius and Eugene Peterson?
I understand that you may not like Peterson's translation, but unless you have a considerable amount of Greek and Hebrew in your resumè, I suggest that you have no qualification to speak on the subject. Not liking a translation is not a reason to condemn it as "heretical." Perhaps you are the heretic (The meaning of αἱρετικός is "one causing divisions, disputatious).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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.... and for the record, I love Eugene Peterson.
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Sogol said:
.... and for the record, I love Eugene Peterson.
My stepfather used to say, "Talk's cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey." You certainly have a fine way show your "love."
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Sogol said:Joel Reed said:
The more I think about, the more I realize that I don't actually want a lot of the resources Logos offers with their packages. (Such as 'The Message' translation ... that's about as lame and heretical as it gets)
Arius, Pelagius and Eugene Peterson?
I understand that you may not like Peterson's translation, but unless you have a considerable amount of Greek and Hebrew in your resumè, I suggest that you have no qualification to speak on the subject. Not liking a translation is not a reason to condemn it as "heretical." Perhaps you are the heretic (The meaning of αἱρετικός is "one causing divisions, disputatious).
Peace to you, George! Do you think perhaps you've made a mistake here in your condemnation??? As I read this thread, I do not think that "Sogol" deserves your disapprobations. I thought he was speaking with some humour!!??
Perhaps you read too quickly - and engaged your mind before letting out the clutch? *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Peace to you, George! Do you think perhaps you've made a mistake here in your condemnation??? As I read this thread, I do not think that "Sogol" deserves your disapprobations. I thought he was speaking with some humour!!??
Perhaps you read too quickly - and engaged your mind before letting out the clutch? *smile*
No, he deserves every word of it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Sorry if I've offended you, George. I do love Eugene Peterson an have even met him. That's why I found it humorous and ridiculous to compare him to an early heretic. I guess it wasn't clear that I was kidding. Again, my apologies.
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Oh great. There's an error in the second edition of the 'Heretics of the Early Church'. I wish Logos wouldn't release these without better care.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Sogol said:
Sorry if I've offended you, George. I do love Eugene Peterson an have even met him. That's why I found it humorous and ridiculous to compare him to an early heretic. I guess it wasn't clear that I was kidding. Again, my apologies.
The problem is that there are some who really feel that way. I noted nothing to indicate that you were joking so I assumed you were serious. I get tired of people who claim that the KJV is the only bible to use or the ASV or that The Message is … whatever, but negative since rarely do they have any qualifications to judge. The Message is a relatively decent, if somewhat offbeat, translation which therefore isn't for everyone. Users have a right to say "I prefer this translation" or "I prefer that translation", but, when they aren't qualified to judge the quality of the work, they shouldn't attempt to judge its correctness or lack thereof. Sorry if I misjudged you, but I had no clue. Let me know next time by a smilie or something—please.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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DMB said:
Oh great. There's an error in the second edition of the 'Heretics of the Early Church'. I wish Logos wouldn't release these without better care.
48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.Mt 5.48 [ESV]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Peace, Sogol! You were "crystal clear" to me .... all along. You did communicate well! *smile*Sogol said:Sorry if I've offended you, George. I do love Eugene Peterson an have even met him. That's why I found it humorous and ridiculous to compare him to an early heretic. I guess it wasn't clear that I was kidding. Again, my apologies.
Even George can be in error?!!!?? I appreciated your humour.
BTW, I'm not sure what emotions George felt at your post; however "offended" is not likely to be one of his reactions!
St. Paul was speaking sarcastically when he talked about "suffering fools gladly" 2 Corinthians 11:19 KJV .... seeing how "truly wise we are"!!!!
Is that sarcasm like the FaithLife Study Bible states? I think FSB actually got it right, eh .... Great study Bible! *smile* Indeed! and free also!
Peace to you! ... and ... Incredible Joy in the Lord!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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George Somsel said:
Let me know next time by a smilie or something—please.
Yes, I've been known to mistakenly assume everyone understands my humor and thus leave out the smiley faces. It's too easy to miscommunicate online. This serves as another very good reminder for me. Thanks!
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Peace, Sogol! You were "crystal clear" to me .... all along. You did communicate well! *smile*
Thanks, Milford. Peace to you as well!
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George Somsel said:
I started out purchasing separate resources that interested me since they had a super sale on at the time. Eventually I moved to the Original Languages package. While the OL needs some supplementing in grammars and lexica (notably BDAG [don't open your bible study program without it] and HALOT [you could conceivably to with this since BDB is still quite useful]), it really isn't a bad starter package.
I did something similar. I started with the SESB in Libronix, and then moved on to the Logos4 Original Language base package. So, your advice is spot on in my opinion.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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George Somsel said:
I get tired of people who claim that the KJV is the only bible
It Isn't? Can't I use it to correct errors in the Greek & Hebrew? [:D] (Actually had a visitor from a local church tell me that one)
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Even George can be in error?!!!??
Now, that is a heretical statement [8-|]
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