Logos 5 for Mac is OUT
Comments
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Patrick S. said:
when I look at the different packages it says, next to Books, the word 'Features'. Under that there is a number of 'features', and the lower packages have significantly less features. Starter has 25, Bronze has 46 and it is not until you get to Platinum that you get all 'Features'. What are they, and do you get a less capable (feature wise) piece of software if you get the lower priced package — because you already have all the content you need at this time.
Logos 4 and 5 features need appropriate data content for use. For example, the upgrade page http://www.logos.com/upgrade shows "Bible Word Study: Septuagint Translation" that needs a Septuagint Translation resource. Logos 5 Platinum includes Rahlf's Septuagint variations with Logos Morphology Reverse Interlinears. If already have an appropriate Septuagint resource license, then can use that feature without upgrading to Logos 5 Platinum.
Edit: Septuagint follow-up thread => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58242/414599.aspx#414599 notes an appropriate LXX (Septuagint) resource with Reverse Interlinear (RI) tagging for Bible Word Study is included in Bronze and higher: Swete LXX RI is being prepared for release by Logos.
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Rick Ross said:
If all I want is the new engine, could I purchase the Starter and continue using the resources I already have? I do not need all the bell's and whistle's, therefore just wanting to know if I would run into any problems if I choose to go that route.
Starter provides new engine so could use Full Screen in OS X. Noticed Starter includes updated Bible Facts and New Testament Semantic Domain Coding data sets. Bronze includes many of the new Logos 5 Data Sets.
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Rick King said:
Once you upgrade, it's a one way street. There is no turning back and you have to live with your choice be it good or bad.
Logos has 30 day return policy. From Logos 5 beta testing, already have Logos 5.0 installed on OS X 10.8.2 and like Full Screen capability.
Personally pondering upgrade from L4 Platinum to L5 Portfolio since the delta increase from a Diamond upgrade to Portfolio is less than 10 % of the regular price for many new Portfolio resources, which are in my wish list. Thankful for package content changes so can keep resource licenses from previous purchases plus add more.
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Starter provides new engine so could use Full Screen in OS X. Noticed Starter includes updated Bible Facts and New Testament Semantic Domain Coding data sets. Bronze includes many of the new Logos 5 Data Sets.
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This is what I mean... I am not talking about Data Sets but the 'Feature Distribution'. The first column (with dots) is the bottom level package 'Starter'. A lot of the good options don't kick in until the 'Bronze' package and to get most you have to go to 'Gold' or above. So it seems pretty clear to me that the levels of the packages affect (independently of the book resources) the levels of functionality of Logos 5.
I may be wrong (and happy to be proven wrong) but it seems to me looking at the website that that is the case. So if one only wants to upgrade the 'engine' then what engine will Logos be providing?
It is still not clear.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Ok I'm more confused than ever over L5. I want to get L5 to fix the MAC issues with indexing and syncing which have plagued me from the start on my Macbook Air.
I have been a Logos user for at least 15 years and have built a library I am satisfied with. When I choose "Starter" on the upgrade I am essentially buying stuff I don't want and it is another $184.00, according to my price.
What I like about Logos over the years is their constant adding and availability of electronic text all in a single engine, but I don't want them to make me buy stuff to get the improvements of the new engine.
What I need is a basic engine upgrade which costs $50.00 or less. This price is in-line with most software offerings today without content. Let me choose the content I want.
Thank you
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Patrick S. said:
This is what I mean... I am not talking about Data Sets but the 'Feature Distribution'. The first column (with dots) is the bottom level package 'Starter'. A lot of the good options don't kick in until the 'Bronze' package and to get most you have to go to 'Gold' or above. So it seems pretty clear to me that the levels of the packages affect (independently of the book resources) the levels of functionality of Logos 5.
I may be wrong (and happy to be proven wrong) but it seems to me looking at the website that that is the case. So if one only wants to upgrade the 'engine' then what engine will Logos be providing?
The Logos upgrade chart shows which base packages have the resource content to use the associated Feature(s). The upgrade chart does not show what Feature(s) are already usable in your Logos library from previous resource purchase(s).
One item included in the Logos 5 engine is full screen use on OS X 10.8.2
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John McKenna said:
What I need is a basic engine upgrade which costs $50.00 or less
Please read the post by Bob. He explains that this is coming, and why it isn't here now.
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John McKenna said:
Ok I'm more confused than ever over L5. I want to get L5 to fix the MAC issues with indexing and syncing which have plagued me from the start on my Macbook Air.
Logos 5 takes awhile to sync when launching or closing the application. If MacBook Air is moving between a number of networks; may want to work offline when moving about. When have a stable network connection, launch Logos on Mac so sync can be done, then close Logos on Mac, followed by launch to work offline.
Apologies: personally have not (yet) rebuilt indexes completely using Logos 5 on OS X 10.8.2 so not know about indexing performance.
Thankful for personal upgrade calculator, which now provides credit for previous purchases. The delta difference between Diamond and Portfolio for my Logos library was less than 10 % of the regular pricing for a number of resources on my wish list.
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Rick King said:
I am on the fence at this point about just upgrading from L4 Platinum to
L5 Platinum still. Are there any Mac users that have done this
upgrade? I would like to hear some feedback as to your experiences
using the new L5.After looking at dynamic upgrade pricing, noticed delta upgrade to Portfolio (over Diamond) was less than 10 % for "New" resources, which were on my wish lists for library expansion. Currently downloading 1.76 GB of new resources.
Thankful for dynamic pricing upgrade with graduated discount for larger purchase. Thankful for phone discussion with Logos Sales.
My favorite Logos feature is visual filter highlighting so can "see" morphological codes in Greek and English using resources in parallel:
English is not Greek; intensity and range of verbal expression in Greek often lack during translation into English. Highlighting verbs quickly shows range of expression used by the original author. With verbs highlighted, can look at surrounding words in their context. Forum thread has a bit more about verbal intensity => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/56318.aspx
Logos 5 adds Root and Senses to Bible Word Study, an awesome addition.
Note: the screen shot is from a 27" iMac using Full Screen mode in OS X 10.8.2 with a caveat that Logos takes awhile to combine lots of search results into visual filter highlighting. Planning to upgrade internal hard drive to Solid State Disk (SSD) soon, which should noticeably improve Logos performance.
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Rick King said:
I am on the fence at this point about just upgrading from L4 Platinum to
L5 Platinum still. Are there any Mac users that have done this
upgrade? I would like to hear some feedback as to your experiences
using the new L5.Dear Rick,
I made the upgrade...
I have been a loyal Logos user for several years. I have suffered through the vicissitudes of "less than par" Mac performance. I too own some Accordance stuff, but have spent thousands (and thousands and thousands) more on my Logos library. Accordance, while providing the snappiness and ease of use, simply does not have the resources as you know. I've always longed for what Logos could be.
To make a long story short, I upgraded my L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum and I couldn't be happier. I actually feel as though Logos 4 was the beta that never cut the mustard, but Logos 5 was the full release that could. L5 is everything that L4 should have been. It is snappy, polished, and "it just works." I think you will be pleased with the upgrade.
I often winced as I would come to these forums and see yet another blow to Logos over poor performance in L4. The future is looking brighter. Logos has done what I thought impossible: providing a resource heavy indexed database that responds with the quickness Mac customers expect.
Hope this helps!
Blessings,
Will
"How soon are we broken on the soft pillow of ease! Adam in paradise was overcome, when Job on the dunghill was a conqueror."
THOMAS WATSON
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Will,
I am not a really advanced user. I probably use a tenth of what Logos could do as I don't do a lot of in-depth word studies and am just starting to learn Greek and Hebrew. I have BDAG and HALOT in Accordance and with the 2500 I put in there, I figure I have something that will help me work with Greek and Hebrew and day to day Bible studies pretty well. When I want to do some research for preparing a Sunday school lesson and need a whole ton of resources to possibly utilize for it, I use Logos as the library. It's more of a big library with every word indexed with an ebook reader stuck on it. I have the Harvard Classics and Perseus and the huge Spurgeon package. Commentaries galore (only one of which is duplicated in Accordance) that give me more than I can ever use at my fingertips. I'm putting serious thought into just going with Silver. I know I am missing the word sense but I am not sure if I am ever going to use that or not. The difference is about 400 dollars. True, I get another big slug of commentaries in Platinum but I seem to be doing OK where I am now. How big of a deal is that missing data set and can I just pick that up later for a nominal charge when the crossgrade happens? I've got 4000 in it now, which is small potatoes to most Logos users, but I have so much stuff I don't even know half of what I have at this point. You think perhaps Silver will be a reasonable update? Or should I just wait for the crossgrade?
Will Cornell said:Rick King said:I am on the fence at this point about just upgrading from L4 Platinum to
L5 Platinum still. Are there any Mac users that have done this
upgrade? I would like to hear some feedback as to your experiences
using the new L5.Dear Rick,
I made the upgrade...
I have been a loyal Logos user for several years. I have suffered through the vicissitudes of "less than par" Mac performance. I too own some Accordance stuff, but have spent thousands (and thousands and thousands) more on my Logos library. Accordance, while providing the snappiness and ease of use, simply does not have the resources as you know. I've always longed for what Logos could be.
To make a long story short, I upgraded my L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum and I couldn't be happier. I actually feel as though Logos 4 was the beta that never cut the mustard, but Logos 5 was the full release that could. L5 is everything that L4 should have been. It is snappy, polished, and "it just works." I think you will be pleased with the upgrade.
I often winced as I would come to these forums and see yet another blow to Logos over poor performance in L4. The future is looking brighter. Logos has done what I thought impossible: providing a resource heavy indexed database that responds with the quickness Mac customers expect.
Hope this helps!
Blessings,
Will
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
FGH: I was speaking of the Logos pages about 5. Nothing there but upgrade info as far as I can see, nothing about Crossgrade or free engine.
Ah! Yeah, I think we all agree the initial launch wasn't well handled, communication wise.
Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:Still don't think something is right. If 5 will not work/perform correctly without buying new resources, then I am still having to pay again to get the first purchase to work correctly.
I haven't tried it, but the reviews seem good so far, and it certainly should "work/perform correctly without buying new resources". The new databases are only needed it you want to use the added features.
Rick Ross said:If all I want is the new engine, could I purchase the Starter and continue using the resources I already have? I do not need all the bell's and whistle's, therefore just wanting to know if I would run into any problems if I choose to go that route. Thank you.
If all you want is the new engine, you can wait a while and you'll get if for free.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Patrick S. said:
it seems pretty clear to me that the levels of the packages affect (independently of the book resources) the levels of functionality of Logos 5.
I may be wrong (and happy to be proven wrong) but it seems to me looking at the website that that is the case. So if one only wants to upgrade the 'engine' then what engine will Logos be providing?
As far as I understand it, it's the same engine for everyone. The only reason the comparison chart claims a certain package doesn't have a certain feature is because that package lacks the resource or database that would make the feature functional. You have to have a Bible to do a Bible Search. You have to have a morph-tagged resource to do a Morph Search. You have to have a tagged Septuagint to get a Septuagint Translation Ring, and so on. If you already have the necessary resource from L4, the feature will work even if the L5 chart says it's not included in the package you upgrade to.
This post might help.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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alabama24 said:Mike Singer said:
It is pretty uncool that people have have to pay $$ forced upgrade
Who is being forced to upgrade? I think you have misunderstood something along the line. Read Bob's post HERE.
If one can upgrade for free (with currently owned libraries) to Logos 5 from "sub-par" Logos 4 then that is fair and reasonable.
Please accept my apology for misunderstanding.
Shalom
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Will Cornell said:
To make a long story short, I upgraded my L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum and I couldn't be happier.
That's exactly what I wanted to know.
I never considered L4M to be beta once it was officially released. I believe that too many people simply apply expectations before strategy. We've been led to believe that Macs don't require much of a skill set and that Apple hardware is the best in the world. Users mostly have no idea what software development requires on multiple platforms and at the high level of a product like Logos.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Rick King said:
I am on the fence at this point about just upgrading from L4 Platinum to
L5 Platinum still. Are there any Mac users that have done this
upgrade? I would like to hear some feedback as to your experiences
using the new L5. I bought into Accordance because it was fast and
light but it doesn't have a huge wealth of resources. Logos, to me, is
like the research library. It's large and cumbersome and every time it
adds updates or materials, it brings my system to its knees. I only
have 12 gigs of ram and indexing eats the 4 or 5 gigs I have free. When
you want to find something and find it quickly across a vast and huge
library, Logos can most certainly deliver that. I really would love to
hear from somebody that has done this upgrade and has comments on the
ease of searching and overall how the speed is compared to 4. Part of me wants to love this thing to death and pour more money in it and part of me wants to sell the resources for what I can get and just go with Accordance. I've got 4k wrapped up in Platinum and several other resources and am not sure about paying over 700 with taxes to keep me in the game. Right now, there is a 15 percent discount to do that but next week, it might be gone. If I wait for the crossgrade, and I come to figure out that none of my current resources can utilize all this new flashy bells and whistles stuff in 5 and they have yanked the upgrade discount..... I also know that you can't go back. Once you upgrade, it's a one way street. There is no turning back and you have to live with your choice be it good or bad. Right now, I am out a huge chunk of change and am seriously wondering if perhaps I have got myself in the mud up to the axles or not.....The crossgrade may or may not give you all the features you want. And you won't know until the release day.
I upgraded from Platinum to Diamond. Got the software in August, so I wanted more resources as well. I have been going through the new resources.Yes, some are old resources, but never outdated and I am enjoying them. That's the great thing about biblical resources, you can use them in 1920 or even in 2060 and the information is still relevant. Even did a few random search, played with the timeline, passage and exegetical guide. I was told by Bob personally that even if I'd used 10 percent of the resources, it's still worth it to upgrade.
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KpK said:
That's the great thing about biblical resources, you can use them in 1920 or even in 2060 and the information is still relevant.
Do you really think so? With advances and discoveries in archaeological and linguistic fields, I find most older resources useless except for perhaps devotional or historical curiosity--and some are not even good for that.
Ultimately, I guess my issue is with the word relevant.
I'm distrustful of most commentaries and reference works before the second half of the 20th century, and even many of these are starting to show age. Even if a person wanted to try to become theologically informed about a passage, older commentaries often have bad interpretations based upon an uninformed understanding of the cultural context of the passage.
Why else do we see contemporary commentary sets get revisions? I'd like to think that's it's not just a chance to make more money, but rather a reaction to the reality that information in the original has become dated.
Again, one might find historical and devotional insights from older works, but I would not trust many of them beyond that.
Yes, the "Word of God remains forever," but its commentators often have a short shelf life.
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I downgraded to Silver in 5 from Platinum in 4. For a limited time, I can still go higher with the same deal I had before. Over all, so far I don't see a huge difference. Flashier interface and some changes in the way it does things but it is still pretty cumbersome and difficult to use. I was hoping for more but I am not disappointed in what I got for what I spent. I did get a few new resources, one of which I was considering buying that costs 100 dollars alone. 270 dollars was not a crazy huge amount of money to spend to give it a go. It was about 300 with the tax. The crossgrade will probably be around 100 dollars so I felt it a pretty safe entry point. I'm still pondering perhaps just doing Diamond for a whole slug more resources and regaining my status but I am just not sure.
I feel the opposite about commentaries. The older ones are usually better. The newer ones lean on versions like the NIV or the ESV. I don't fully trust modern translations. There are huge chunks of things missing from them. The HCSB and the NASB at least put the missing parts back in the text with brackets and a foot note saying that modern scholars have ripped these out of the Bible. Perhaps they were added and weren't supposed to be there but I'd prefer to have them there and a note saying that some guy with alphabet soup after his name has deemed them to not be inspired. I had to chuckle when I saw Lange added in. I have that set in a program that is very close to free already. I think they charged me 7 dollars for the set.
So, all in all, the new 5 is an improvement over 4. It seems a bit more responsive but not too much and the interface has a cleaner look to it. From a Mac perspective, I would say the upgrade is worth doing. Don't expect huge, sweeping changes, though. It's still going to look and act quite a bit like the old one did. It is still slow and cumbersome but that is to be expected. This is a giant behemoth of a library that it has to work with and it takes resources to do that. It still uses a bit more than 500 megs of memory to run. If you want to look for information across your entire library very quickly, this is the tool that will do it. I will continue to use Accordance for day to day things and when I want to do research for a Sunday school lesson or Bible study backgrounds, Logos will do me well.0 -
Rick King said:
I feel the opposite about commentaries. The older ones are usually better. The newer ones lean on versions like the NIV or the ESV. I don't fully trust modern translations. There are huge chunks of things missing from them. The HCSB and the NASB at least put the missing parts back in the text with brackets and a foot note saying that modern scholars have ripped these out of the Bible. Perhaps they were added and weren't supposed to be there but I'd prefer to have them there and a note saying that some guy with alphabet soup after his name has deemed them to not be inspired. I had to chuckle when I saw Lange added in. I have that set in a program that is very close to free already. I think they charged me 7 dollars for the set.
I guess I feel the opposite of your position in regard to translations, too. I consider the newer ones to be more accurate and more informed by the actual documentary evidence.
Incidentally, I teach primarily from the HCSB on Sundays, but not for the reasons you describe. There are some portions in English Bibles that I would definitely relegate to the footnotes--the long ending of Mark for instance--or possibly remove entirely. I want the words that Mark wrote, not what the church added later. In my study, I primarily work from original languages with translations for secondary use.
Of course the beauty of Bible software can be found in the fact that you can put any translation or text of your choosing beside any commentary. So the base translation of a commentary becomes a non-issue for me, and I would assume for most.
But this is all a bit off topic, I suppose. That's my fault, and I apologize.
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R. Mansfield said:
I guess I feel the opposite of your position in regard to translations, too. I consider the newer ones to be more accurate and more informed by the actual documentary evidence.
Incidentally, I teach primarily from the HCSB on Sundays, but not for the reasons you describe. There are some portions in English Bibles that I would definitely relegate to the footnotes--the long ending of Mark for instance--or possibly remove entirely. I want the words that Mark wrote, not what the church added later. In my study, I primarily work from original languages with translations for secondary use.
Of course the beauty of Bible software can be found in the fact that you can put any translation or text of your choosing beside any commentary. So the base translation of a commentary becomes a non-issue for me, and I would assume for most.
But this is all a bit off topic, I suppose. That's my fault, and I apologize.
No need to apologize. Might be off topic but anything dealing with the Word of God is relevant in a Bible software forum, I figure. If I used a modern translation during my Sunday school lesson, it would not go well for me. KJV only in our church. I find it a good thing to have a standard like that. Personally, though, I make use of other translations in my studies. I'm slowly starting the process of learning Greek and Hebrew, but it is a long hard road. The question then becomes which Greek text you trust. I'm still up in the air on that one. I try to keep an open mind but always lean towards the side of tradition and conservative thought. For that matter, there is the whole controversy about the Septuagint.... Life is a journey. Learn as much as you can while you are here but make sure to be a good steward of the knowledge and be sure that it lines up with the Word of God. Logos helps us do that. (Thereby steering the topic back into Logos software... ) :-)
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Rick King said:
Might be off topic but anything dealing with the Word of God is relevant in a Bible software forum, I figure.
Actually, no. The forum guidelines forbid theological, political etc debate. If you'd seen how ugly this place can become when that rule is broken, you'd understand why it's there. Logos provides these forums for discussing Logos software, nothing else. Not that we don't bend that rule all the time, but please ensure this doesn't turn into a KJV only debate.
Also, right now Logos tries to read all posts in order to catch bugs, disappointment, and errors of various kinds. If we fill threads with off topic posts, they may miss things they need to know.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Dear Mr. Mansfield: I have to disagree with your premise. Some things we may well have better with the light given from ancient texts we now have, that we did not before. Yes, culture plays a part.
But both are subject to the human element and, as we move further and further from the ancient points in time, we tend to be more and more subjective and that too is part of culture.
Each culture period thinks it is "doing better" and each one after it thinks the latter didn't know much. The price paid is high, an ever more liberal society moving further and further away from the original sources. I would agree commentaries are culturally colored and always show us societal trends and norms of the time period. Yet, for us to say we have things more accurate today simply cannot be done honestly. Unless Christ Jesus or one of the Apostles themselves were to show up and comment on the subject, the best we can do is reason within our own subjective minds.
Perhaps a good thread topic for your blog, which , by the way, I do enjoy.
( ahh, back to forum rules - which I probably just pushed on a bit-smile)
Grace and Peace,
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I respect your position, but yes, we'll have to save the discussion for another time. Don't misread me to think that I don't appreciate the historical because I certainly do.
But yes, let's stop for now lest the Logos forum vigilantes come back to repeat the rules again.
Thanks for your kind words about my blog. I just wish I had time to write for it regularly again.
Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:Dear Mr. Mansfield: I have to disagree with your premise. Some things we may well have better with the light given from ancient texts we now have, that we did not before. Yes, culture plays a part.
But both are subject to the human element and, as we move further and further from the ancient points in time, we tend to be more and more subjective and that too is part of culture.
Each culture period thinks it is "doing better" and each one after it thinks the latter didn't know much. The price paid is high, an ever more liberal society moving further and further away from the original sources. I would agree commentaries are culturally colored and always show us societal trends and norms of the time period. Yet, for us to say we have things more accurate today simply cannot be done honestly. Unless Christ Jesus or one of the Apostles themselves were to show up and comment on the subject, the best we can do is reason within our own subjective minds.
Perhaps a good thread topic for your blog, which , by the way, I do enjoy.
( ahh, back to forum rules - which I probably just pushed on a bit-smile)
Grace and Peace,
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Wish you did too.
You write well, have an interesting mind and thoughts on things.
Blessings
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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