Upgrading
Comments
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Gary
Where did you find it since no one else can find it.
Thanks
Chris
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Some observations.... critique welcome
Context:I've been using Logos since what ever version it was right before Libronix
A. "You pay for the resources not the program"
This has been stated by users, and I do not recall the exact promise from years ago, has this exact statement been stated officially by Logos?
I know the current statement is "you don't pay for the engine" which I view as being a bit different. Different because my quoted statement above, I believe, implies total use of the program. This changed with L4 because of the need to have "data sets" to use some of the tools. I upgraded to Gold to get access to all those wonderful tools. Now I have Gold... but not really. I have to "upgrade" to Gold AGAIN in order to use all the tools again.
It helps me personally to understand I do actually pay for the program when it is upgraded. This has been true for L4 and will obviously continue to be true. If we do not get to use the program at the fully functional maximum unless we pay for it (you call it paying for resources) then would you please just tell us you made a promise you are no longer able to keep and that your sorry. I understand about making promises you intended to keep when made but didn't take into account the future variables that were not known at the time of the original promise.
If it was originally stated, years ago, that we will only have to pay for resources and not the program (not simply the "engine") then we should have full function. Otherwise please just stop making the claim.
B. My Advise
The program is what mainly draws your users (the resources are important but secondary, at least for me). Let us use your program at its full function. I will continue to buy resources because I love your program.
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Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me.
Is it safe to say I agree with you?!
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Kent Hendricks said:
Chris, for now, there is no minimal crossgrade. We will likely make a minimal crossgrade option available in the future.
(My post was meant to simply clarify that there will not be a way to buy one data set individually, like the comparison chart incorrectly stated.)
Understood. Thanks for clarifying.
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J. Morris said:
Some observations.... critique welcome
The disconnect is that L5 collections are completely new products, so maybe 'upgrade' isn't the best word.
an analogy: the iphone 5 was an update of the Iphone 4s but that doesn't mean that Apple has to give iphone 5's to everyone who had an iphone 4s.
but your iphone 4s still works the same as before.
you bought L4 Gold. you still have L4 Gold. But that does not entitle you to an entirely new product called L5 Gold.
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Janice said:
Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me.
Is it safe to say I agree with you?!
... The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called. I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program. This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.
We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it. This semantics stuff bothers me....
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all fair requests that Logos should address immediately.Bruce Roth said:Here is my 2 cents:
- It would have been better if Logos made it clear, (maybe on the upgrade page) that this is a special opportunity for you to upgrade from L4 to L5 and get a deal on some new resources that you don't currently have that are now part of the newly defined package. Or you can upgrade to a different package. Also indicate that in the near future you will have the ability to do a cross upgrade (and explain what that is) if you want to wait a few weeks or so and don't want to spend the money on the resources.
- Explain in a market sense what the new packages are and what their equivalent was in the past.
- Explain that you don't loose anything of your original investment if you don't upgrade
- Make sure that folks understand that they need to have Gold in order to have all the new datasets
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David Dewberry said:J. Morris said:
Some observations.... critique welcome
The disconnect is that L5 collections are completely new products, so maybe 'upgrade' isn't the best word.
an analogy: the iphone 5 was an update of the Iphone 4s but that doesn't mean that Apple has to give iphone 5's to everyone who had an iphone 4s.
but your iphone 4s still works the same as before.
you bought L4 Gold. you still have L4 Gold. But that does not entitle you to an entirely new product called L5 Gold.
Actually, I am entitled to the new product if it was promised originally. I don't care about the resources!!!! If I am unable to FULLY use the new product w/o HAVING to pay something for it (I don't care what its called), then the original promise is not being honored.
Your right... it IS a completely new product.... and I was originally promised it (as were many others) before it came out. Yes I do expect it for free because... I was promised it... Thing is though... I would GLADLY pay for things to put into the new product (lets call them apps per your illustration) because I think the product ROCKS!
Simple solution... Logos apologize for not being able to keep the original promise.. deal with the heat for a while... move on...
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This! [Y] It's not about status and it never has been. It's about functionality. I don't need a whole bunch of additional commentaries I will never use (hello Wesleyan and Lange commentaries?) just to get the Sense data set to get me to full functionality if I upgrade. Everyone's mileage may vary though. [:D]
J. Morris said:Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name?
... The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called. I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program. This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.
We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it. This semantics stuff bothers me....
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I agree just functionality.
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J. Morris,
I've read over your thought provoking posts. I don't know about the difference between "program" and "engine." essentially the same. I think what makes L5 murky is that the new datasets seem kind of like a program, but they are also resources. We can still use L5 without them. But if we want them, we buy a package that reflects the time and cost that went into them. But we can still read our books and do searches and make verse lists, etc. just like L4.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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J. Morris said:Janice said:
Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me.
Is it safe to say I agree with you?!
... The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called. I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program. This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.
We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it. This semantics stuff bothers me....
J. Morris,
This isn't semantics. You can fully use the Logos 5 software engine for free, when it's released after the product launch. But the new data sets are not free. The Topic Guide comes with sermon outlines, those outlines are not free, they are a resource. The new clause search runs on editions of the Bible hand tagged for function. For example if you search for subject:Jesus you will find every time Jesus is mentioned as the subject, even when a pronoun is used instead of the proper name. This required hand coding (this couldn't be done with a computerized algorithm). The cost to pay people knowlagable in biblical languages cost money. These are new resources. For example the Lexham Discourse ESV Bible is essentially the ESV Reverse Interlinear, why pay for that? Because Steve Runge went in and tagged the Bible thereby enhancing the value.
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Do we know how long the upgrade prices are good for? I have $600 on pre-pub/community pricing and not sure I want to spend another $600 for Plat or even $460 for Gold considering my library is about $4K. I'm bummed I didnt get more credit for a lot of the stuff I bought separately.
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Dan DeVilder said:
J. Morris,
I've read over your thought provoking posts. I don't know about the difference between "program" and "engine." essentially the same. I think what makes L5 murky is that the new datasets seem kind of like a program, but they are also resources. We can still use L5 without them. But if we want them, we buy a package that reflects the time and cost that went into them. But we can still read our books and do searches and make verse lists, etc. just like L4.
I appreciate your reply. To me Program should equal Engine (as it does to most)... It is clear though that Logos now desires a distinction in order to get out of their original promise (I had issues with this when L4 came out also).
It is Logos' fault that they tied functionality with resources. Good for the program? Yes. However... it forces a purchase... Good for the bank? Yes. However, it renigs (sp?) on the original promise.
I would just like honesty... Many get it... We pay for the program... Logos please stop claiming otherwise...
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Ken Hicks said:
This!
It's not about status and it never has been. It's about functionality. I don't need a whole bunch of additional commentaries I will never use (hello Wesleyan and Lange commentaries?) just to get the Sense data set to get me to full functionality if I upgrade. Everyone's mileage may vary though. J. Morris said:Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name?
... The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called. I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program. This wasn't always the case... It is a newer trend that we were once told would not become a trend.
We do pay for the program otherwise we would be able to FULLY use it. This semantics stuff bothers me....
Just as Dan mentioned in his post (not quoted here), a fully-featured Logos 5 comes with new databases, and these databases are treated like new resources in a sense. That means if you want to fully use L5, you will need to pay for these database resources. I believe some folks are confusing the promise of "free program updates of a specific product tier - i.e. Logos 4.x" with the introduction of a new product - i.e. Logos 5.x. What I have read so far from Bob sounds reasonable to me. I think Logos should address these confusions on their product page.
David
Edit: The prices for the new L5 base packages are fantastic if you consider what you get. But I also hope Logos will officially make a statement about a cross-grade offer for many customers who do not need additional resources in those base packages.
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Janice said:
Seems like vanity to me, for those that don't want many new resources, but want the new features, but are almost crying over losing a "status" from Platinum, to Gold, or oh my, even lower, Silver. Do you really *feel* more superior or of a higher class just because your package has a specific name? Is it because it feels better to boast to others? Sounds carnal to me. I have Logos 4 Platinum, but if I decide to buy the Logos 5 Silver, it is not hurting my *status.* I'll still have all the resources from Logos 4 Platinum even if I no longer have the *name.* Besides, it's likely that no one else you're around is going to be more excited for you based on what name your package is called. This bantering has just been humorous to me.
Is it safe to say I agree with you?!
Seems like part of the issue is, if I am understanding correctly (and as J Morris above posted), that some of the features of the engine rely on certain data sets. Those data sets were only provided in the base packages and so to get certain features you had to have a certain package level. What I'm reading into this is in people's minds they've (we've) tied those feature sets to the package levels and it is not clear what L5 packages equate to the L4 packages in terms of feature sets -- what package level do you need to upgrade to to keep the same feature/data sets? The obvious thing for the people witch package names that still exist is that you need to get the package with the same name.
For my case with a L4 JG package (upgraded from an L4 something else, I think KF), I can see what is included in the L5 Starter package, but I cannot tell whether or not there are data sets that I had the equivalent of in my L4 package, but are not part of starter (which seems like the closest match to my L4).
For example, there are several lines in the Feature Distribution section that are not included in starter, not listed as new to L5, and not listed as "new to you". The logical interpretation of this is if it is not new to L5, it existed in L4, and if it is not new to me, then it is something I have in my current package. Do features and data sets work the same way as resources where if you had it before you will still have it after upgrade regardless what is listed in the table?
For example, in L4 I have "The Bible Knowledge Commentary". The lowest base package in L5 that has it is sliver which is a $544 upgrade for me, but I understand that if I upgrade to just the starter, I will still have TBKC because I had it in L4 -- do all features and data sets work the same way?
What we need is a chart that lists all the L4 packages and the minimum L5 package that you should upgrade to to keep the same functionality. Not talking about resources here. Someone with L4 Platinum could upgrade to L5 Starter and still have the same resources, but at what level do they have the same functionality?
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J. Morris said:Dan DeVilder said:
J. Morris,
I've read over your thought provoking posts. I don't know about the difference between "program" and "engine." essentially the same. I think what makes L5 murky is that the new datasets seem kind of like a program, but they are also resources. We can still use L5 without them. But if we want them, we buy a package that reflects the time and cost that went into them. But we can still read our books and do searches and make verse lists, etc. just like L4.
I appreciate your reply. To me Program should equal Engine (as it does to most)... It is clear though that Logos now desires a distinction in order to get out of their original promise (I had issues with this when L4 came out also).
It is Logos' fault that they tied functionality with resources. Good for the program? Yes. However... it forces a purchase... Good for the bank? Yes. However, it renigs (sp?) on the original promise.
I would just like honesty... Many get it... We pay for the program... Logos please stop claiming otherwise...
I guess I equate program with engine in one sense, but still see a distinction about putting together a digital resource. But I think i get what you mean. I guess I am personally not feeling hoodwinked by it, but I am not saying you are not correct in seeing the parsing of words, you may be correct. I am pretty sure Logos men and women decision makers are prone to error, but I confess my overall trust and appreciation for them and their work--and I hear you are trying to be nuanced as well as critiquing. Blessings to you, J.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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J. Morris said:
I would just like honesty... Many get it... We pay for the program... Logos please stop claiming otherwise...
I think most of the misunderstanding is in how users talk about this, rather than in how Logos talks about this. Here's the reality: the 'engine' is free, but to get full all the use available in the program, you need to pay. This is similar to other programs (including some freeware programs) that have modules you need to purchase in order get all the functionality possible.
This is not new to Logos. In Libronix (L3), there was further functionality that needed to be purchased to be used. In Libronix these were called add-ins, and could sometimes be purchased separately (depending on the addin - some were only available by purchasing a package deal of some kind). Beginning in L4, there were no separate add-ins available to purchase. To use some functions you needed to purchase a base package. Some Libronix add-ins were dropped, and others didn't carry over directly without a minimal crossgrade, at least. (I think there were some with large libraries, but no base package who negotiated another arrangement with Logos, but I don't remember specifics. I could even be wrong on this - it happens)
L5 isn't introducing anything new in its approach to getting added functionality, except that this time, the added functionality is all new to Logos5.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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David L Bailey said:
Just as Dan mentioned in his post (not quoted here), a fully-featured Logos 5 comes with new databases, and these databases are treated like new resources in a sense. That means if you want to fully use L5, you will need to pay for these database resources. I believe some folks are confusing the promise of "free program updates of a specific product tier - i.e. Logos 4.x" with the introduction of a new product - i.e. Logos 5.x. What I have read so far from Bob sounds reasonable to me. I think Logos should address these confusions on their product page.
David
No confusion on my part... and I don't expect anything free. I know the value of hard work.
I view the Sense data set as a plug-in to give enhanced functionality of the core program. This would differ in my opinion from purchasing a resource (Bible, interlinear, etc). Some have argued its like buying any other resource like a Lexham product. But Sense is promoted as something integral to full functionality of the program in the videos. So if I want the full L5 'experience" (functionality) I need L5 Gold (and the Sense dataset). No one would ever claim that I needed a Lexham product to have full functionality of the engine. That is a substantial differentiation from a mere resource that one can purchase.
The fact that I cannot purchase a crossgrade with just the essential data sets to make it functional apart from L5 Gold is a legitimate complaint.
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J. Morris said:
... The "status" I paid for with Gold was the fully functional program I do not care what it was called. I now have to buy the Gold package again.... to retain the use of the fully functional program.
I still think you misunderstand. You paid for L4 base package Gold. Okay. This works now in L4 as it did the first day.... - oh no, in the meantime there came PBs and WordLists and Community Notes and Sermon tags and whatever - all free upgrades to the engine. And this L4 engine runs today and will run tomorrow (much better as at the time when most people acquired L4, with not only bug fixes but tons of new funcionality). And right now it is interfaced via sync 2 with your iDevice or Kindle fire or Android phone (and the free apps there) and biblia.com and Faithlife and whatever. I honestly believe that Logos gave us users much more than they promised when we spent our first dollar for L4. And they keep this, and are still maintaining the program as well as the resources for free.
You don't have to go for L5, you may stick with L4. Okay, but most of us want the newest version of the gadget, don't we? So, to "retain" the program, what do you need? A free engine. Bob has promised that for all of us - it's planned but not here right now. There's a number of paid ugrades available first (I like his example of a blockbuster that first comes to paying customers in the cinema before it's given away on video or even free TV) - so if you want it now, instead of say in December, you can choose any of these according to the additional books and functionality you want. You aren't asked for paying to retain existing functionality, but for additional stuff that never was part of L4.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Perhaps the previous, separately purchased add-ins are clouding my perception of the issue. I guess I just disagree with the whole concept of the "package" approach. I can deal with it.
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Perhaps this can help. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58176.aspx Logos addresses users questions.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Richard DeRuiter said:J. Morris said:
I would just like honesty... Many get it... We pay for the program... Logos please stop claiming otherwise...
This is not new to Logos. In Libronix (L3), there was further functionality that needed to be purchased to be used. In Libronix these were called add-ins,
You are correct I forgot about the add-ins (I did purchase those also).
While I continue to have issues with the claim "we don't buy the program" I will secede due to the differences of interpretation.
However... the added claim that we ONLY buy resources ties into the issue. Again, this is clearly not the case. I've stated my point and I appreciate the opportunity to do so. I'll just leave it at that.
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Mark Stevens said:
Thanks Dan and thanks everyone. I just feel incredibly let down by Logos. Gold was a milestone for me. I know I get to keep stuff but I cannot understand why I should have to downgrade to upgrade. It is an insult to the thousands I have spent building my library. Why can't I pay for the upgrade like I did with L4?
I love this software and I have bragged about for years. A little shocked that there is no info about any of this on my product upgrade page. All I see is the $400 plus it will cost me to keep Gold.
I expected better from Logos.
What's in a name? that which we call a gold
By any other name would be the same.george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
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My $.02 worth, (thought about this at job #2 Today) Logos seems to be changing from a two tier programming model (program+resources) to a three-tier model.
(Program+Resources+meta-data driven "tools") Again, some explanation would have been nice. Not only are we not comparing two different things, their explanations are not always about our questions because we haven't gotten our minds fully around the model. It seems to be getting less murky, a part of "upgrade" pricing is invested in these secondary tools. This is why in Bob's eloquent and forthright post the free engine and the "minimal cross-grade" are different things. At some point it would be a good idea for someone to post a simple explanation of their software vision/model. Without any hype and without marketing. Clearly part of the problem is the intensity of the sell. Many of us in the "community" don't need sold. We are already on board. A lot of us are at the point where we add resources only as needed. Explaining the model helps us to understand what the dollars invested are doing besides paying publishers and keeping the lights on. Lastly and finally, and to summarize: we do need to have the minimal cross-grade (if at all possible) before the roll-out deals expire. That way, if we find the new tools useful, but limited because we don't have all the needed resources....then we can make an informed decision
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Dean053 said:Gary Butner said:
I think what most of the complainers are missing is that Silver 4 is NOT Silver 5, Gold 4 is NOT Gold 5, Platinum 4 is NOT Platinum 5, and Portfolio 4 is NOT Portfolio 5. Logos is offering both upgrades and downgrades between all packages.
Your post illustrates the kind of polemical tone that is troubling me: referring to fellow Christians as "complainers"; no, they are unhappy customers. Probably in part because they aren't understanding everything as well as they could (or perhaps because things are not communicated as well as they should). I find it a worrying trend if a company (Christian or not) takes this kind of attitude--if there are wide-spread misconceptions, then it's down to the company to communicate better--if they want to improve customer relations, which I'm sure (and hope) every company wants.
I am not a Logos employee or member of the Pritchett family. I'm 70 years old, retired, and on a fixed income. I have been a Logos user almost from the beginning. Until tonight I had Platinum 4, but I have faith in Logos and the Pritchett family, and so I upgraded to Portfolio 5.
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David Ogg said:
Logos is abusing their recent success at the cost of their loyal customers. Proverbs has a few thoughts they should consider.
A response from Logos would be appreciated given this appears to be true.
In addition, it is a well established fact that L4 for Mac was sub-par compared to the PC version...
Shalom
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Mike Singer said:
A response from Logos would be appreciated given this appears to be true.
Please read Bob's Post: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
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I agree with your feelings, Jim. I've started feeling this way about Logos lately. In spite of this, I decided to upgrade my Platinum Edition at the inflated price. I thought I would be able to enjoy the new features talked about. Instead after downloading Logos 5 and installing it, I not only lost my ability to use Logos 4 (it's been completely replaced by Logos 5), but Logos 5 is not working with my Windows 7 PC! So, instead of being able to prepare for two studies next week and an upcoming message at church using Logos 5, I'll be stuck trying to use alternative means. Of course, I'll have to wait for Logos to fix the issue. I, too, am feeling very betrayed by a company that I have supported even when it was Libronix. Thanks alot Logos for abusing your loyal customer base who have invested tens of thousands of dollars each in many cases. Keep sticking it to us ... your payday is coming, too.
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Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago. This last announcement virtually killed any "love" I had left for the product. It's obvious Logos wants to be a "big boy" in business and play by "big boy" rules. Talk about a money pit! I feel sorry for those who tend to be impulsive in their buying because it's easy to spend THOUSANDS with Logos and later deeply regret it. I should have stuck with free Bible Software products and accessed many resources from the internet. I simply don't belong in the Logos economic class anymore! They have moved on and left me on the lower middle class category. I HATE to invest and regret it! My money is too valuable to me.
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Michael Kahler said:
I agree with your feelings, Jim. I've started feeling this way about Logos lately. In spite of this, I decided to upgrade my Platinum Edition at the inflated price. I thought I would be able to enjoy the new features talked about. Instead after downloading Logos 5 and installing it, I not only lost my ability to use Logos 4 (it's been completely replaced by Logos 5), but Logos 5 is not working with my Windows 7 PC! So, instead of being able to prepare for two studies next week and an upcoming message at church using Logos 5, I'll be stuck trying to use alternative means. Of course, I'll have to wait for Logos to fix the issue. I, too, am feeling very betrayed by a company that I have supported even when it was Libronix. Thanks alot Logos for abusing your loyal customer base who have invested tens of thousands of dollars each in many cases. Keep sticking it to us ... your payday is coming, too.
Quite frankly, I don't understand your vitriol. My experience with Logos has always been satisfying. Do they charge too much? I don't know that I could claim that since what they produce is a first-rate product, and, if it happens to not be quite what is expected, they fix it or they're willing to take it back. When I was in college and seminary I had a mechanic who worked on my cars. I thought he was too expensive since I was a student and therefore had limited means so I found someone who did the work more cheaply. It turned out that the car didn't run nearly as well when the cheaper mechanic did the work. You actually DO get what you pay for—at least much of the time.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Shawn Drewett said:
Seriously, I am so sorry that I ever invested in Logos 13 1/2 years ago. This last announcement virtually killed any "love" I had left for the product.
I wasn't aware that you ever had any particular love for the product. I've been around for a number of years, and it has always seemed to me that you remind me of the Israelites grumbling in the wilderness. Your act is growing whiskers.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Shawn Drewett said:
This last announcement virtually killed any "love" I had left for the product.
What announcement? Did you read Bob's post? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
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Michael Kahler said:
In spite of this, I decided to upgrade my Platinum Edition at the inflated price.
That was probably not the best decision you have made today as you seem to have acted in haste, and the point about losing L4 is an (understandable) reaction to losing all functionality. I hope Logos restore it promptly and you can enjoy L5 on Windows 7 as others have.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Michael Kahler said:
Instead after downloading Logos 5 and installing it, I not only lost my ability to use Logos 4 (it's been completely replaced by Logos 5), but Logos 5 is not working with my Windows 7 PC!
Michael,
I'm very sorry to hear that you are having problems running Logos 5. We want to fix this problem as quickly as possible, but need more diagnostic information to identify the underlying issue.
Please enable logging and post your logs in this forum. (It would be most helpful if you created a new thread instead of replying to this one. This thread is quite long and replies can get lost.) The instructions for enabling logging are here: http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging
If you have any trouble with getting logging to work properly, please create a new thread detailing the problems and we'll assist you as soon as we can.
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James Macleod said:
I think everyone needs to settle down and stop using emotionally charged language. Logos isn’t extorting us or throwing us under the bus. They are trying to get an upgrade out the door and want to make a bit of money for their labours. They have families to feed just like the rest of us and they are doing an excellent job on their product. I’m sure they are all putting in long hours tonight.
Logos will provide a cross grade option. They always have and they will again. No one will die tonight if they don’t get the upgrade. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride.
James! *smile* Thank you for your very refreshing post! Hopefully a few positive posts like yours can "turn" what has been a very dark day into a slightly happier outlook! Peace to you! and Always Joy in the Lord!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Peace, Gary! Thanks for you post! Much-appreciated indeed!Gary Butner said:I am not a Logos employee or member of the Pritchett family. I'm 70 years old, retired, and on a fixed income. I have been a Logos user almost from the beginning. Until tonight I had Platinum 4, but I have faith in Logos and the Pritchett family, and so I upgraded to Portfolio 5.
It is so wonderful in this very troubled world in which we live to be able to truly "trust" someone. I also (a bit older than you - *smile*) find myself so pleased that Logos and the Logos Team and the Pritchett family are truly worthy of our "trust"! Always Joy in the Lord! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Gary Butner said:
I am not a Logos employee or member of the Pritchett family. I'm 70 years old, retired, and on a fixed income. I have been a Logos user almost from the beginning. Until tonight I had Platinum 4, but I have faith in Logos and the Pritchett family, and so I upgraded to Portfolio 5.
"14 Then Amos answered Amaziah, "I am no prophet, nor a prophet’s son; but I am …"
Not a criticism (in fact, not really pertinent), but your phraseology reminded me of this passage.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Mark Stevens said:
Yes I did but why should I have to downgrade to get a cross grade. i don't want new books and I wish to keep my Gold status. I have spent a lot of money and praised this program to people endlessly. And where is that info? All I got was a upgrade page that didn't explain any of this! I should not have to pay for a downgrade.
Mark, you can keep your Gold status, but you can bet in the future upgrades are going to have new names. Logos made a mistake this time by keeping the same package names on upgrades, but they learn from their mistakes. Everyone needs to recognize Bronze 4 is not Bronze 5, Silver 4 is not Silver 5, Platinum 4 is not Platinum 5, etc.
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I am an engineer by day, a seminary student by night, and a weekly bible study teacher. I'm on the fence with the two sides of this forum. However, I liken a proposed solution to the engineering software that I have to purchase for my company.
The cost of my engineering software packages is $10k-$12k. The upgrade costs are around $5k. However, they give me an option to be on a subscription, which I pay $1,500/year. For that subscription, I receive any major upgrades before it is available to the public, I receive quarterly minor upgrades to which the public does not receive, all maintenance upgrades/fixes for free and before the public, I am offered free technical support, I am offered discounts for other promotions before the public, and I have the ability to attend training classes at reduced rates.
I believe this would be a great solution for Logos to consider, and it would be good for their customers also. I would easily pay a subscription fee (assuming that it is affordable) and have all the luxuries that I do with my engineering software. It's a win-win. Logos gets a consistent paycheck from users, and users get constant return on their investment in Logos.
Just my thoughts...
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Scott Shelburne said:
However, they give me an option to be on a subscription, which I pay $1,500/year. For that subscription, I receive any major upgrades before it is available to the public, I receive quarterly minor upgrades to which the public does not receive, all maintenance upgrades/fixes for free and before the public, I am offered free technical support, I am offered discounts for other promotions before the public, and I have the ability to attend training classes at reduced rates.
Hey ! I could save money at that rate. [Does it include all the resources I want?] [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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[:O]I Just purchased an upgrade (smile) from Gold to Starter. I did not lose a thing. I think I gained about 40 more resources. Forget about the names. It's like everything else in life. It's just for show. Bigger is not better in this case. You only pay more for more resources. I was afraid I would lose functionality, but I seem to have everything I had before. My upgrade was $46.00.
Even if I only paid for the software, $46.00 is a very, very, very good price for software that I absolutely love.
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Hi Bob!
Your post and another that explains why the engine only offering must wait. You have put me in my "place" and let me know exactly where I stand and the extent to which you appreciate my business and my customer loyalty to Logos. In just under 3 years I've spent $ 12,264.18 on Logos 4. That's on top of previous versions. My current orders for pre-pubs stands at $ 6,219.15 while my Community Pricing bids amount to $ 587. You have every spare cent I could afford over the last 3 years as I have been moving from a paper based library to an electronic one. What I have just heard you say is that I'm a less important customer to you because I don't have the capacity to upgrade right now. I feel insulted and devalued as a customer. I'm not asking to be given any priority as a [formerly] loyal customer. I'm only asking for equality of access. I hope your balancing act works out for you - that is, I hope for your sake that the money you take in through this marketing strategy more than makes up for the customers you will lose. Since money rather than loyal customers was the consideration in your strategy I just want you to know that I'm canceling the $6,806.15 worth of orders I have with you and won't be doing any more business with you.
Best regards,
David
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Here is an explanation from Logos - http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx Maybe it will clear some of the confusion everyone is having.
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Hi Judy!
That is the other post to which I referred and which spells out why I feel insulted and devalued as a customer.
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I thought I was posting to everyone and not in answer to your post only. I've invested a good bit as well, but plan to continue with the upgrade after I get some more questions answered Monday. I may end up waiting for when it is offered free as I don't need to be spending much at this time anyway.
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I haven't quite got the hang of this posting yet either as replies I intended to specific posts are ending up in "general." Best regards.
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ManilaDave said:
I haven't quite got the hang of this posting yet either as replies I intended to specific posts are ending up in "general." Best regards.
The article at http://wiki.logos.com/Using_the_Forum#Adding_a_Reply_to_a_post is helpful in this regard
In particular the section entitled "Reply post editor"
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Thanks, Graham
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