I have no place to give my tithe
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I guess perhaps I see voting as a (albeit small) way to declare where I stand... I am in favor of biblical principals (trying to dance on the tightrope of the rules... don't want to spark something political here) being lived out in our day to day lives.
God sometimes (as we know) uses evil men to bring judgement down upon his people.
I cannot in good conscience vote for an evil man (loosely defined as one who is in opposition to biblical principals - this made this election difficult for me personally), even if God has predestined that man to be my leader for the next period of time.
Now that brings us to what is perhaps the crux of the issue. IF God wants the "evil" (again using my earlier loose definition) man to win, then how would we know? How can we vote in violation of biblical principals? We the church (and the leaders therein) should not decide (before it happens) if God is judging our country. This may be true, or may not be with the current administration. I don't think we will fully know until we have the benefit of hindsight. However IF he is to be a judgement how then can we as Christians vote for an evil man (again using the loose definition, both of the main candidates are "evil")? How can we vote against the principals God has set before us? In the end the vote doesn't matter. God's divine will, WILL be accomplished regardless. Does this mean its less important for us to vote? certainly not (and I won't repeat the edmund burke quote so often attributed to scripture *chuckle*).
To say that voting against YHWH is akin to gambling, is to say that our vote has a chance at usurping His Will - something I categorically reject. God's will is bigger than our vote.
God's will is bigger than my country.
God will ALWAYS accomplish His purposes, and is capable of using people in open rebellion (not saying this is, or is not our current president) to do so.
Sorry for all the parenthetical statements... I'm told I over use them *chuckle*.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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...or you could just vote for whom you want, but abide by and accept the God ordained result.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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oops, duplicate post
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Super Tramp said:
Maybe God did not want either Obama or Romney to rule over America and chose to raise up a new Pharaoh in Egypt to rule over the USA.
God did not want Saul to be King either, but he honored the "votes" of the people who demanded a king. He gave them what they wanted, knowing that they had rejected him in their decision.
Interesting how this thread began with tithing, and ended up here. Sufficient proof that there isn't enough New Testament scripture to support tithing.
Here is what the New Testament DOES say about tithing:
We have record of Jesus mentioned tithing twice. Three, but two are parallel passages. One begins with "Woe unto you ... the tither". In the other, someone else who doesnt pay tithes goes away justified, while the tither is not.
The moneychangers, who existed to enable the people to pay their tithes and offerings in a non-profane currency (as well as cheating them), were the only people in scripture suffering violence at the hands of Jesus.
Jesus never collected a tithe. Jesus never instructed his disciples to collect a tithe. The apostles never collected tithes. The apostles never instructed anyone to collect tithes. A very loud argument from silence indeed.
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Michael Childs said:
A few years ago on a mission trip, of all places, a team member told me they no longer attended a church. I asked him, "How long have you been living in sin?"
Upset, he blustered and exclaimed,"I am not living in sin!"
I replied, "Sure you are. The same Bible that says 'Do not commit adultery' also says 'Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together'. Sin is sin. How long are you going to keep living in sin?"
I was not trying to condemn, but to make a point and to give a different perspective to this mission team member.
Which is to say, I agree that there is a bigger problem here than tithing. Surely, there is some church within driving distance where your friend can feel comfortable. Jesus said something about leaving your gift at the altar and first being reconciled to you brother.
Good thoughts.
(This is not meant to be a direct response to your post Michael. They're just my thoughts after reading yours.) I would like to say that New Testament house churches were quite different from modern churches however. So the issue isn't necessarily "going to church" or not, it's the meeting together of the brethren. If the OP's friend is meeting with Christians, having community, worship, etc, outside what most of us would call "church" today, then there might be less of an issue present than one might initially suppose. But that may or may not be the case, I dunno.
Also, another thought, I imagine that most of us would be neglecting the "coming together" command according to Paul's standards. If I'm not mistaken, New Testament time Christians came together much more frequently than most of us do, daily and even twice daily. And Christians today think church once or twice a week is disciplined. [:P]
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