Is the Noet model "Classics" or "Western classics"
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I'm bowing out of this discussion as it is inappropriate for the forums and provides too strong a temptation for me to say things I shouldn't. However, I will note that I've never been considered "new-agey"; more often I am labeled so traditional as to be positively medieval.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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how soon can I expect Anglo-Saxon and Norse? Chinese and Sanskrit?
How about some Gothic to start with: Studies on Gothic Christian Writings (3 vols.)?
(Though I would like to know the source of the claim that Gothic was once used in Sweden.)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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(Though I would like to know the source of the claim that Gothic was once used in Sweden.)
I would like to know how "they" know the Bible was published in Gothic if there are no extant copies of it.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I would like to know how "they" know the Bible was published in Gothic if there are no extant copies of it.
No extant copies? Reading a Bible passage in Gothic is a standard part of any historical linguistics class. From the University of Texas (a premier linguistics department for historical linguistics in the US): (Note: they have online lessons for learning to read Gothic.)
"The corpus of the Gothic language consists chiefly of large portions of a translation of the New Testament Gospels and Epistles; the only surviving remnants of the Old Testament are chapters 5-7 of Nehemiah. This translation is generally ascribed to the bishop Wulfila in the middle of the 4th century AD, though there is no direct evidence that the translation that survives is actually in his words; the major manuscripts themselves all date from the late 5th to middle 6th century. What remain are references to the fact that Wulfila did in fact translate the Bible in its entirety, save for the Book of Kings. There are, however, no other references to a biblical translator among the Goths, so that the association of the surviving text with Wulfila is not likely to be far off the mark.
The Gothic biblical translation is apparently based on the Antiochene-Byzantine recension of Lucian the Martyr (c. 312), which was a Greek text dominant in the diocese of Constantinople. This exact version of the biblical writings does not survive, though some scholars have attempted to delimit the places in which it differs from the Greek manuscripts on which the modern received text is based. There are also apparent traces of influence from Latin translations of the Bible from the pre-Vulgate era.
Of the codices that contain the Gothic translation of the Bible, the Codex Argenteus, or Silver Codex, is by far the most impressive. The name comes from the binding, which is made of silver. Within this are contained 187 leaves out of a presumed original 336. The pages are purple parchment, though now a faded red, with letters of silver and gold. The beginnings of gospels, the first lines of sections and the Lord's Prayer, and the gospel symbols at the bottom of the pages are all in gold letters; the rest is written in silver. The codex was discovered in the abbey at Werden in the 16th century. It was subsequently taken to Prague; when the city fell to the Swedes in 1648, the codex was taken to Stockholm. After being transferred to Holland and then purchased again by the Swedish chancellor de la Gardie, it now resides in the library of the University of Uppsala. Another leaf was discovered in 1970 in the cathedral of Speyer on the Rhine.
The Codex Gissensis was found in Egypt in 1907. This consisted of four pages containing verses from Luke 23-24 in Latin and Gothic. It was subsequently ruined by water damage.
The Codex Carolinus is a palimpsest consisting of 4 leaves and containing verses from the Epistle to the Romans in both Latin and Gothic. It was found in the abbey of Weissenburg, though it originally belonged to the monastery at Bobbio in Liguria. It now resides in the Wolfenbuettel library.
The Codices Ambrosiani are likewise palimpsests. There are five of these codices, labelled A-E. Codex A contains 102 leaves, of which 6 are blank and another illegible. This contains various segments of the Epistles, as well as one page of a calendar. Codex B contains 78 leaves, which have the complete text of II Corinthians as well as parts of other Epistles. Codex C has two leaves, containing Matthew 25-27. Codex D contains 3 leaves, showing part of the book of Nehemiah.
The last of the Codices Ambrosiani, Codex E, contains eight leaves. In these survive a document, given the title Skeireins aíwaggēljons þaírh Iōhannēn 'Explanation of the Gospel according to John' by the editor Massmann in 1834, generally referred to simply as the Skeireins. The author of this commentary is not known; though possibly written by Wulfila, there is no evidence of this.
In addition there are very sparse remnants of other documents: a fragment of a calendar of martyrs, marginal notes in a Veronese manuscript, a Latin title deed from Ravenna written c. 551, and another Latin deed from Arezzo which has subsequently been lost. There are also examples of the letters of the Gothic alphabet written with their associated names. In addition, there are transcriptions of numerals in a Salzburg-Vienna manuscript of the 9th-10th centuries. A few phrases remain elsewhere in an almost phonetic Latin transcription.
One letter by the diplomat Ogier Ghislain de Busbecq is believed to contain the most recent traces of the Gothic language. It describes his encounter, sometime between 1555 and 1562, with two envoys from the Crimea who spoke a language presumed to be Gothic, or a closely related language. This letter was subsequently printed in Paris in 1589. The identification is not however air-tight, as the letter has only about 100 Gothic words, most of them grammatically isolated, and suffers from many problems of orthography and transmission."
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I would like to know how "they" know the Bible was published in Gothic if there are no extant copies of it.
There may not be a full copy, but there are quite extensive parts. The most famous being the Codex Argenteus, which is in Sweden, but only because the Swedish army took it from Prague in 1648.
Of course, most Goths were Arians (or pagans), not orthodox Christians.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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(Though I would like to know the source of the claim that Gothic was once used in Sweden.)
See Wikipedia under Goths:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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After being transferred to Holland
That would be Queen Christina's conversion to Catholicism.[:D]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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See Wikipedia under Goths:
There has certainly been nationalistic times in Swedish history when people have wanted to believe that the Goths originally came from Sweden (and that Atlantis was here too), but I've never heard of any serious scholar today that takes such claims seriously.
And even if true, they would hardly have spoken Gothic. They would have spoken some kind of proto-Scandinavian, which then, after the emigration and under the influence of the new surroundings, developed into the Gothic language.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Thank you MJ and fgh for the enlightenment. I had read there were no extant Gothic Bibles. So much for believing everything in print. I may just have to order the Pre-Pub.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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came from
Your kidding? I'd never heard anything but that they may have had settlements there. As for Atlantis, I know for a fact it was midway between California and Hawaii[:P]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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came from
Your kidding? I'd never heard anything but that they may have had settlements there.
You didn't read what you told me to read? [:)] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths#Origins (but notice the last sentence of that section)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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You didn't read what you told me to read?
Didn't remember that far[:$]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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What is unique about buying the Classics with Noet? Amazon offers 1,543 Classics at zero cost here:
Scholars won't settle for translations. They need the originals.
And you've already got an English Dante. I've got it in my library. I've even got two, but one seems to be a PB.
This ^^ is exactly it.
I really hope Logos listens to what people are saying here. And here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/73142.aspx. (the thread "Why "Send to Kindle" Must be a Priority"
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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There are several significant differences when it comes to reading the classics in Noet. The following question and answer is taken from the Noet.com/faq page.
- How do Noet ebooks differ from ebooks in other platforms (Kindle, Nook, etc.)?
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When used in the Noet mobile app, Noet ebooks support a host of unique features that allow for deeper textual engagement. These features include:
- High-powered search tools that allow you to search your entire library or an individual ebook for an English or original-language word or phrase.
- Split-screen view that allows you to sync related texts so that they scroll together as you read them. Sync Homer’s Odyssey and a commentary, so that as you turn the page of one text, the other automatically follows. Or sync a translation of the Iliad with the original Greek.
- A Look Up tool that allows you to select an original-language word and access its gloss, lemma, and morphology.
- A Word Study tool that allows you to link from an original-language word to its entry in a lexicon.
- A Text Comparison tool that allows you to compare a passage across multiple translations.
Each of Mike's points here^ are exactly why focusing on original language texts is playing to Logos' strengths.
And why hauling out public domain translations - which we can get for free elsewhere - and hawking them on Logos, is a bad idea.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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