Plato & Aristotle in Loeb
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Have the translators been dead long enough for them to be in Public Domain?
I haven't checked, but I kind of assumed that the reason we got another edition was that Loeb isn't PD yet.
Not in all cases. E.g. Plato's Republic has a 2013 publication date. They might be able to use its predecessor, however, since I'm sure this wasn't the first translation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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At the time we began listing the Loeb collections, we decided to hold off on the Loeb editions of Plato and Aristotle because we had just listed the Jowett edition of Plato's dialogues, and the Ross edition of Aristotle's works. I'm glad to know that there's interest in the Loeb editions, however. We'll keep that in mind, although I believe both were a case in which not all of the volumes are in the public domain.
If others are interested in seeing these in Logos/Noet, please let me know in this thread!
Also, it's good to know that there's interest in Lattimore's translations of Homer. I'll see what can be done.
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Thanks for chiming in and letting us know your thinking about this. I'm looking forward to seeing what you will produce in the future. Sounds exciting!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Also, it's good to know that there's interest in Lattimore's translations of Homer. I'll see what can be done.
thank you Mike.
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However, you can learn Greek! Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!
I've always wanted a liberal (arts) education. Gone are the days when the study of men (edit: and women) consisted of theology, mathematics, engineering, and the Western classics.
Learning Greek is an option, but unfortunately, I'm not able to invest in the time. [:(]
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However, you can learn Greek! Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!
I've always wanted a liberal (arts) education. Gone are the days when the study of men (edit: and women) consisted of theology, mathematics, engineering, and the Western classics.
Learning Greek is an option, but unfortunately, I'm not able to invest in the time.
It doesn't take much time—only 23 hrs/day. You get to sleep for an hour. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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You get to sleep for an hour.
If I were as young as you, George, I might be able to survive that schedule.
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...or not.
[:S]
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Please add me to those who would like to see Plato and Aristotle in Greek Loeb editions. In fact, I'm kind of surprised they didn't roll these out at the very first: if you're going to promote Noet using Plato and Aristotle, why wouldn't you make the effort to scan and tag the Greek too? I imagine a lot of the target audience for the new offer are people who are less interested in antiquated public domain translations (both of which I bought in CP) than they are getting access to the original language tools.
Very well said Greg - this has long puzzled me too. [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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"Tertullian's question is still ringing in our ears." I probably missed out on that one (due to deep-sixing him, after his disaffection with the Montanists ... the last group to truly understand the early church).
Well, he was the one who asked "What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem" and went on to argue that they have noting to do at all with each other; and that indeed philosophy was more or less not only incompatible with revealed scripture, but alas the work of demons.
So, I'm not a big fan of his. [:)]
Nevertheless, the question itself has been a very fruitful one over the centuries.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Well, I can check this but Aristotle and Plato were almost certainly included in the first round of original Loebs - and they are undoubtedly in the PD at this point.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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although I believe both were a case in which not all of the volumes are in the public domain.
Thanks for your post Mike. [:)]
The original round of Loebs in the early 20th century must be in the PD by now, methinks. I'd be glad to check on this though.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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However, you can learn Greek! Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!
I've always wanted a liberal (arts) education. Gone are the days when the study of men (edit: and women) consisted of theology, mathematics, engineering, and the Western classics.
Learning Greek is an option, but unfortunately, I'm not able to invest in the time.
One thing to keep in mind is that it's actually very difficult to put long hours into language study, and not nearly as effective in the long run; much better off doing 1/2 to an hour a day. Most everyone can do so; but it does take a kind of insane discipline to do that every day for years. However, it would open up worlds upon worlds David. [:)]
To be perfectly honest, it is exceedingly rare for anyone to have a genuine liberal arts education, in ANY age. The people who truly did in the past were a decidedly small minority. Same is true today; even more so perhaps.
However, it is NEVER too late to start on obtaining a liberal arts education; and it's never something you permanently have anyway; rather it's a process and a way of life.
If I can ever be of any help, just give me a shout. Many hugs to thee.
Cheers,
Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Please add me to those who would like to see Plato and Aristotle in Greek Loeb editions. In fact, I'm kind of surprised they didn't roll these out at the very first: if you're going to promote Noet using Plato and Aristotle, why wouldn't you make the effort to scan and tag the Greek too? I imagine a lot of the target audience for the new offer are people who are less interested in antiquated public domain translations (both of which I bought in CP) than they are getting access to the original language tools.
Very well said Greg - this has long puzzled me too.
....and, well, still puzzles me. [:)]
The Lattimore translations are very good, as I mentioned above. However, Lattimore's translations can be found in used bookstores for next to nothing; and the advantages accrued to the reader by reading a translation in Logos seem marginal at best.
On the other hand, the advantages of having a tagged text, and the ability to bring to bear all of the original language tools of Logos to bear on that text, are well-neigh tremendous. It seems to me that this is where Logos really shines. And where Logos ought to focus.
Yes, I am a broken record.....lol [:D]
Okay, so as far as Plato and Aristotle and public Domain:
First, allow me to introduce to you a wonderful resource: http://www.edonnelly.com/google.html
And within this resource, most conveniently, we find the old Loebs listed here: http://www.edonnelly.com/loebs.html
If we look at, say, The Republic, we find this: http://archive.org/details/republicshorey01platuoft
As far as I know, all of the old Loebs have been replaced - most of mine (and I have many, many Loebs) all date from the 1990s, I believe. I have an old catalog of Loeb publications; the catalog is dated 1979, and most of the volumes in the catalog predate WWI, and certainly WWII.
So I should think that pretty much every Aristotle and Plato volume of the early Loebs are now in the PD.
~Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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One thing to keep in mind is that it's actually very difficult to put long hours into language study, and not nearly as effective in the long run; much better off doing 1/2 to an hour a day. Most everyone can do so; but it does take a kind of insane discipline to do that every day for years.
This is so true when it comes to learning anything. A little bit every day can make a huge difference in learning and especially learning a language. Over the last several years I have created a reading plan in Logos to read my Greek NT through each year and this has really helped.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Yes, it's a kind of temptation to believe otherwise: that one can cram 10 years worth of language study in 3 months, but it just ain't so. The brain doesn't work that way, particularly with languages. Kudos to you Bruce for realizing this and creating a system to discipline yourself.One thing to keep in mind is that it's actually very difficult to put long hours into language study, and not nearly as effective in the long run; much better off doing 1/2 to an hour a day. Most everyone can do so; but it does take a kind of insane discipline to do that every day for years.
This is so true when it comes to learning anything. A little bit every day can make a huge difference in learning and especially learning a language. Over the last several years I have created a reading plan in Logos to read my Greek NT through each year and this has really helped.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Peace, Guys!
This is a bit, off topic ... *smile* sorry!
However, I'd like to bring back to my life some of the joy of having read Homer in the original in the 1950's ....
I'm having great difficulty with Homer's hexameter... although a long time ago I thought I had it "under control."
So I've been going on the internet to find some sites for practise and am having difficulty finding a site that is "clear" enough and "slow" enough to be helpful to me ...
So do you know of any sites like this one that are a bit "clearer" and "slower" until I possibly regain some of my obviously lost skills ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSDO9FnWFWA
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Hello Milford! [:)]
So glad to find a fellow lover of Ancient Greek!
Well, the best way to explore this is to start with Professor Stephen Daitz, Professor Emeritus of Classical Languages, City University of New York.
You are probably going to find that the Ancient Greek pronunciation is a bit different - a lot has changed scholarship wise in the intervening years. I know Oxford Dons who won't have anything to do with the "restored" pronunciation. However, he does go into some of the basic reasons for why the "restored" makes sense.
If I were you, I'd start with The Pronunciation and Reading of Ancient Greek. It's not too expensive - I'd upload it but I hate to cheat them of what is probably badly needed $. What he has done is really a service to scholarship and humanity.
So, here's where you go for the downloads: http://ipodius.bolchazy.com/Audio/LivingVoice.html. There are also CD versions of his recordings, but I figure peeps would probably prefer mp3 downloads.
Anyway, in the above short course he brings you through the "restored" pronunciation and then step by step getting into the hexameter: pitch accents, the syllabic meter, the various phonemic distinctions he'll teach you to make.
And you'll be reciting Ancient Greek AGAIN in no time!
So happy to be of service to you sir. [:)] And hope we can share this love of this magnificent language and the works it encompasses.
Cheers,
~Whiffles
As
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Peace! Incredibly great! I'll write more later, probably tomorrow! Thanks very kindly! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Peace! Incredibly great! I'll write more later, probably tomorrow! Thanks very kindly! *smile*
This reminds me of a scene from the opera Amahl and the Night Visitors (the three kings).
A Chorus of Shepherds, Villagers and Dancers arrive with baskets of fruits and vegetables for the Kings, “Olives and quinces, apples and raisins, nutmeg and myrtle, medlars and chestnuts, this is all we shepherds can offer you.” The grateful Kings sing their appreciation, “Thank you, thank you, thank you kindly.”
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Peace! Incredibly great! I'll write more later, probably tomorrow! Thanks very kindly! *smile*
This reminds me of a scene from the opera Amahl and the Night Visitors (the three kings).
A Chorus of Shepherds, Villagers and Dancers arrive with baskets of fruits and vegetables for the Kings, “Olives and quinces, apples and raisins, nutmeg and myrtle, medlars and chestnuts, this is all we shepherds can offer you.” The grateful Kings sing their appreciation, “Thank you, thank you, thank you kindly.”
This thread should be named: all things classical studies; and opera too. And maybe a bit of Bach thrown in.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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*smile* Peace! From Jesus ! The Prince of Peace!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Did anyone get a chance to pick up some of the Daitz resources? They are really well done. [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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*smile* Peace! From Jesus ! The Prince of Peace!
How one can listen to Bach and manage to remain an atheist is completely beyond me. [D]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Did anyone get a chance to pick up some of the Daitz resources? They are really well done.
Not yet; however, that will most certainly happen -- as soon as I'm able to budget for some of the Iliad material! *smile* I'm tremendously grateful for the information!
It will happen, probably around the middle of September as I project my needs over against my desires over against my capabilities! *smile*
of course .......... !!!! Deo Volente! *smile* God, Being Willing!
FYI (to those desiring to possibly learn an important Christian Latin phrase) (From Wikipedia ...)
Deo volente God willing This was often used in conjunction with a signature at the end of letters. It was used in order to signify that "God willing" this letter will get to you safely, "God willing" the contents of this letter come true. As an abbreviation (simply "D.V.") it is often found in personal letters (in English) of the early 1900s, employed to generally and piously qualify a given statement about a future planned action, that it will be carried out, so long as God wills. The motto of Southern Illinois University-Carbondale. See also: Insha'Allah. Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Deo volente God willing 13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town and spend a year there, doing business and making money." 14 Yet you do not even know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wishes, we will live and do this or that." 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. 17 Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, commits sin.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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although I believe both were a case in which not all of the volumes are in the public domain.
Hi Mike, any answer on this?
I believe they are; I'll repost this in case it got lost:
[quote] Butters wrote this.... [:)]
Okay, so as far as Plato and Aristotle and public Domain:
First, allow me to introduce to you a wonderful resource: http://www.edonnelly.com/google.html
And within this resource, most conveniently, we find the old Loebs listed here: http://www.edonnelly.com/loebs.html
If we look at, say, The Republic, we find this: http://archive.org/details/republicshorey01platuoft
As far as I know, all of the old Loebs have been replaced - most of mine (and I have many, many Loebs) all date from the 1990s, I believe. I have an old catalog of Loeb publications; the catalog is dated 1979, and most of the volumes in the catalog predate WWI, and certainly WWII.
So I should think that pretty much every Aristotle and Plato volume of the early Loebs are now in the PD.
~Butters
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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I hope peeps don't mind terribly if I "bump" this here little pet thread of mine.
~Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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I hope peeps don't mind terribly if I "bump" this here little pet thread of mine.
~Butters
but the poor man had nothing but one little ewe lamb, which he had bought. He brought it up, and it grew up with him and with his children; it used to eat of his meager fare, and drink from his cup, and lie in his bosom, and it was like a daughter to him.
2 Sam 12.3
[;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Did anyone get a chance to pick up some of the Daitz resources? They are really well done.
What is restored pronunciation? I'm assuming it differs from Erasmian? I've heard of restored Koine (e.g. Randall Buth), but not for Homer.
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What is restored pronunciation? I'm assuming it differs from Erasmian? I've heard of restored Koine (e.g. Randall Buth), but not for Homer.
Hi Dean053!
The restored pronunciation is based on Vox Graeca: The Pronunciation of Classical Greek and the work of WB Stanford and others.
Of course, there are no absolutes here, as you prolly well know; however, the evidence for the use of something like the "restored" in the context of Classical Greek, particularly in 5th century Athens, seems quite strong; it is, however, also used in the context of Homer in addition to Attic Greek. I am not sure if it is applied to Koine - I kind of doubt it is, but that's just an educated guess, as I haven't yet studied Koine. And of course, it's just an approximation and no doubt there will be further developments.
Yes it differs from both the so-called Byzantine and the Erasmian in that it employs the most recent scholarship regarding vowel values; it uses pitch accent; and syllabic rather than accentual in verse. There are other differences too.
WARNING: I forgot to tell people this; in the initial course (The Pronunciation and Reading of Ancient Greek) Daitz makes use of the "digamma," which was employed for some time by many scholars (pronounced like the English "w") to avoid hiatus or rhythmic irregularities which are otherwise inexplicable. His use of this does not irretrievably mar the short course; and he drops the "digamma fetish" ([:D]) in short order in his following courses.
I'd be glad to chat about all of this in more detail if you'd like.
~Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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