New Search: {Milestone}

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644119#Comment_644119

While <John 3:16> finds all references to John 3:16, {Milestone <John 3:16>} finds all instances of John 3:16; these could be that verse in a Bible, or a discussion of that verse in a commentary.

I have to confess that I don't understand the difference. Are "all instances" a superset of "all references"? If so, what distinguishes an "instance" from a "reference"?

Thanks,

Donnie

Jeff Jackson

"Instances" are what "references" are referring to.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644119#Comment_644119

an "instance"

An "instance" is where a particular verse (etc) appears - such as a particular verse in a Bible

a "reference"?

A "reference" is where that particular verse (etc) is referred to elsewhere.

So if "John 1:1" appeared in a paragraph in a monograph this is a reference and would be picked up when running a search for <John 1:1>

But it isn't actually John 1:1 and so wouldn't be returned in a Milestone search.

Does this help?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644127#Comment_644127

"Instances" are what "references" are referring to.

Doesn't help. Sorry.

Can you give a specific example? Something that a citation search in prior versions wouldn't find that a milestone would, and how it's helpful? I'm pushing on this because I use citation searches a lot - it's one of my favorite features. This explanation hasn't yet penetrated my aging brain.

Thanks again,

Donnie

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644119#Comment_644119

I have to confess that I don't understand the difference. Are "all instances" a superset of "all references"? If so, what distinguishes an "instance" from a "reference"?

"In John 3:16, John discusses..." is a reference to John 3:16. "For God so loved the world..." is an instance of John 3:16.

These two searches find two different types of texts. Try clicking the links in my original post and observing the difference.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644139#Comment_644139

"For God so loved the world..." is an instance of John 3:16.

You're saying that an "instance" is the text itself, a full (or partial?) quotation of what is referenced? And thus a milestone search finds such texts, even if the reference isn't mentioned within the context (if it were, a citation search would have found it)?

Thanks,

Donnie

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644139#Comment_644139

Here's the difference:

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644146#Comment_644146

"For God so loved the world..." is an instance of John 3:16.

You're saying that an "instance" is the text itself, a full (or partial?) quotation of what is referenced? And thus a milestone search finds such texts, even if the reference isn't mentioned within the context (if it were, a citation search would have found it)?

A "Milestone" is like an address. In a book that is indexed by Scripture reference (such as a commentary), you can jump to a milestone by typing the reference (e.g., John 3:16) into the reference box.

A "Reference" (in the context of searching) is a mention of a verse reference ("John 3:16") somewhere in the text.

So if you search for Milestone John 3:16 you're going to find not only John 3:16 in all your Bibles but also the places where John 3:16 is the "address" of what's found there (e.g., commentaries).

If you search for John 3:16 as a Reference, you're going to find all the places that mention the book, chapter, verse number (in any way that Logos recognizes as a legitimate Scripture reference: e.g. John 3:16, or Jn 3:16, or John 3.16, etc.). This will not include Bibles, because Bibles never mention the references, they only have the text that appears at that "address".

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644166#Comment_644166

I do not have the milestone unlocked. When clicking on Bradley example (which launches Logos) I get a regular search. What am I doing wrong?

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645235#Comment_645235

Here is what I am seeing:

Missing is the Everything Selection as per Bradley's post. Was it changed to all resources?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645237#Comment_645237

Missing is the Everything Selection as per Bradley's post. Was it changed to all resources?

Bradley's post has "Entire Library" - and it does look as though this is now shown as "All Resources"

Apart from that you seem to be getting the expected results.

Mike Tourangeau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645245#Comment_645245

I have been using this feature along with "inline searching" in WBC, which is a very frustrating commentary to find stuff.....works great!

Gary Butner, Th.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644139#Comment_644139

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me Milestone adds the search features to individual resources?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/651876#Comment_651876

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me Milestone adds the search features to individual resources?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

Gary Butner, Th.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/651909#Comment_651909

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me Milestone adds the search features to individual resources?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

It appears to me Milestone allows the user to restrict his search to the one open resource, instead of searching all resources in the library, correct?

Bob Soule

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/651876#Comment_651876

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me Milestone adds the search features to individual resources?

No it doesn't restrict to individual resources but you certainly could if you wanted. The key for me was Bradley's example:

For God so loved the world..." is an instance of John 3:16. An instance for the milestone search is the text itself or text that is discussing the verse.

Consider the following search from the resource "the bible guide:

and compare this with a reference search in the same resource.

Does this help any?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652416#Comment_652416

It appears to me Milestone allows the user to restrict his search to the one open resource, instead of searching all resources in the library, correct?

As Bob says, that's not correct.

Let me give you an example that's I've just used for tonight's study. I was speaking about angels, and I wanted to say a little something about guardian angels. I was particularly interested in what commentators said about guardian angels in relation to Matthew 18:10 ("in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father").

So, I searched for "guardian angel" WITHIN {Milestone <Matt 18:10>}. That looks for the phrase "guardian angel", but in the part of commentaries/bible that are dealing with Matthew 18:10. It excludes commentaries on Matthew 18:10 that don't discuss guardian angels, and it excludes books that speak about guardian angels in other contexts. It got me instantly to exactly what I wanted.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652609#Comment_652609

That's great Mark. So the benefit is: greater precision?

How is this search different from:

<bible=Mt 18:10>"guardian angel"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652638#Comment_652638

<bible=Mt 18:10>"guardian angel"

This searches for where that particular verse is referenced - and the same article contains the phrase "guardian angel".

It doesn't force Logos to constrain itself to articles which are explicitly focusing on that verse. So you get hits in Systematic Theology works which reference the verse in a section which also refers to guardian angels, for example

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652638#Comment_652638

That's great Mark. So the benefit is: greater precision?

How is this search different from:

<bible=Mt 18:10>"guardian angel"

Not so much greater precision, as a different kind of precision.

<bible=Mt 18:10>"guardian angel" will find articles that contain both the phrase and the reference. Which is great if that's what you want.

"guardian angel" WITHIN {Milestone <Mt 18:10>} is easiest to explain in relationship to commentaries. It's saying to Logos: Find that bit of the commentary that deals directly with Mt 18:10 [e.g. the bit on pp. 214-215], and search WITHIN that section for the phrase.

With your search, the commentator must mention the verse fairly near to the phrase. With mine they need to mention the phrase in the right part of the commentary. So your search wouldn't find the reference in Matthew Henry's Commentary, because even though he's discussing Mt 18:10, he doesn't mention that in the text. So your search wouldn't return it. Mine does, however, because its WITHIN the section that deals with that verse.

Jarred Edgecombe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652654#Comment_652654

Mark, that is an awesome search. I just searched for "levirate marriage" in Ruth 1:11-13. Thank you for that help.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652654#Comment_652654

OK, if I am getting this, "milestone" isolates a section of text in which the bible reference is located and allows you to tell Logos to search THOSE sections for a word or "string of words".

Yes?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652609#Comment_652609

Mark,

Thanks for your patience with us as we try to figure out what this is all about. The mere fact that it's that difficult to explain means either that it's esoteric or inexplicable.

Using your example, but without yet including the "WITHIN", is it fair to say that if a specific verse reference were mentioned in a milestone's text within a commentary (e.g. the text "Matt 18:10"), then a citation search would also have found that location in a commentary? But you wouldn't be able to do the WITHIN search against the citation search's results?

Is it further fair to say that a "milestone" bounds the entirety of the applicable text; i.e. it's not just a marker to the beginning of the applicable text? And thus your WITHIN search is possible?

Thanks again,

Donnie

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652664#Comment_652664

Is a picture worth a thousand words?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652665#Comment_652665

Is it further fair to say that a "milestone" bounds the entirety of the applicable text; i.e. it's not just a marker to the beginning of the applicable text? And thus your WITHIN search is possible?

Yes, that's correct, as you can see from the highlighting in the screenshot above.

Using your example, but without yet including the "WITHIN", is it fair to say that if a specific verse reference were mentioned in a milestone's text within a commentary (e.g. the text "Matt 18:10"), then a citation search would also have found that location in a commentary? But you wouldn't be able to do the WITHIN search against the citation search's results?

Yes, although milestones are markers around a range of text, rather than a location in the text.

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652687#Comment_652687

Mark, that is awesome. It all makes sense now. Thank you.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652638#Comment_652638

That's great Mark. So the benefit is: greater precision?

How is this search different from:

<bible=Mt 18:10>"guardian angel"

Imagine that you wanted to do a Bible Search for "child" in Matthew chapter 18. You would create a range of Mt 18 and enter child (below):-

Now change the search slightly to use {Milestone}

Note that {Milestone} set the range for the search as "All Passages" was ignored. And you can do the same in a Basic Search (the results will be formatted differently).

So {Milestone} makes it possible to search non-bibles in the same way:

So the search is restricted to the commentary on Matt chapter 18.

The result of searching for <bible Mt 18> child is similar in this case:

but it is searching for visible references to Matt ch.18 AND occurrences of 'child'.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652695#Comment_652695

Yes, although milestones are markers around a range of text, rather than a location in the text.

That's what I meant. Thanks again - I think it's clicked. And it may move "milestone" to the top of the L6 feature chart.

Donnie

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652730#Comment_652730

And it may move "milestone" to the top of the L6 feature chart.

It's the feature I was most excited about when I knew it was included. I've been asking for it for years.

Bob Soule

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652687#Comment_652687

Is a picture worth a thousand words?

Indeed it is, I understood what it was doing now I see exactly how it does it.

Thanks

Gary Butner, Th.D.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652609#Comment_652609

Okay, I used Mark's example and came up with 0 hits???? "guardian angel" WITHIN (Milestone <Matt 18:10>)

What did I do wrong?

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652836#Comment_652836

I can't confirm because I'm not on Logos right now but it looks like it is because you used parentheses instead of brackets { } in your search.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652743#Comment_652743

I've been asking for it for years.

Mark, another question - this has probably been answered. Are milestone searches only applicable to commentaries, since beyond bibles they're pretty much the only resources that are versified?

Thanks again,

Donnie

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653861#Comment_653861

Hi Donnie

Are milestone searches only applicable to commentaries, since beyond bibles they're pretty much the only resources that are versified?

Some other examples of resources for which milestone searches are applicable:

Apparatus
Harmonies
Cross-Reference Index such as ""Teasury of Scripture Knowledge"
Clause Visualisation

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653861#Comment_653861

Mark, another question - this has probably been answered. Are milestone searches only applicable to commentaries, since beyond bibles they're pretty much the only resources that are versified?

No, they're not just applicable to commentaries. That's because although the examples given have bible references, you can actually put any reference in the curly braces. That means you can:

Restrict searches to other milestones:

Although you could have created a collection in the example below, using the Milestone not only ensures all relevant resources are searched, but also that there will be no results from the "Doctrinal Treatises, Moral Treatises" section of NPNF.

Restrict searches by page range in individual resources:

This can be useful, for example, in works that are collections of essays, and you only want to search one essay. Journals too, possibly.

The only thing you can't do at the moment (and Logos are aware that it would be useful), is use English Headwords in the milestone. So you can't do something like glossolalia WITHIN {Milestone <Headword "Spiritual Gifts">} to search all the dictionary articles on Spiritual Gifts.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652609#Comment_652609

I searched for "guardian angel" WITHIN {Milestone <Matt 18:10>}. That looks for the phrase "guardian angel", but in the part of commentaries/bible that are dealing with Matthew 18:10. It excludes commentaries on Matthew 18:10 that don't discuss guardian angels, and it excludes books that speak about guardian angels in other contexts. It got me instantly to exactly what I wanted.

Now the ability to do [b]THAT[/b] is a huge selling point that I didn't understand at all until you posted, Mark. Thank you!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/654335#Comment_654335

Great, very helpful !!

Am I wrong that there is no template for "{Milestone <bible x:xx>}" in any of the Search examples? Can we get one put in ??

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653942#Comment_653942

Mark,

I'm going to push on this a little further. We're used to seeing scripture references in <>. And your second example, "Page", is clear enough.

But how does L6 interpret your second example - <Augustine ...>? How is "Augustine" analogous to "Page"? And how is "Augustine, On the Trinity" analogous to the page number range?

A more general version of this question, probably appropriate for the wiki, is what is the full set of milestone "types", so to speak (reference, page number, whatever "Augustine" is, etc.)? And in what types of resources are those milestone types applicable?

Thanks again,

Donnie

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/654555#Comment_654555

A more general version of this question, probably appropriate for the wiki, is what is the full set of milestone "types", so to speak (reference, page number, whatever "Augustine" is, etc.)? And in what types of resources are those milestone types applicable?

"Augustine" is the author-based datatype for the works of Augustine. There is typically a book, followed by some sort of citation within the book (work/section/paragraph/whatever). Most of the schemes for the fathers are based on the ECF volumes, the FOTC volumes, and the other miscellaneous Augustine vols supported. Many of the fathers have their own scheme. Right-click on one of them in the Ancient Literature guide and search all resources to get an idea of both the syntax and what is supported.

I know you asked about the 'full set'; that is a bit difficult to get to at present. But for Church Fathers, working from the citations in Ancient Literature is probably the best inductive path to build your knowledge.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/652609#Comment_652609

Thanks for the sample Mark! Look forward to using this new search context a lot.

Let me give you an example that's I've just used for tonight's study. I was speaking about angels, and I wanted to say a little something about guardian angels. I was particularly interested in what commentators said about guardian angels in relation to Matthew 18:10 ("in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father").

So, I searched for "guardian angel" WITHIN {Milestone <Matt 18:10>}. That looks for the phrase "guardian angel", but in the part of commentaries/bible that are dealing with Matthew 18:10. It excludes commentaries on Matthew 18:10 that don't discuss guardian angels, and it excludes books that speak about guardian angels in other contexts. It got me instantly to exactly what I wanted.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/654555#Comment_654555

But how does L6 interpret your second example - <Augustine ...>? How is "Augustine" analogous to "Page"? And how is "Augustine, On the Trinity" analogous to the page number range?

A more general version of this question, probably appropriate for the wiki, is what is the full set of milestone "types", so to speak (reference, page number, whatever "Augustine" is, etc.)? And in what types of resources are those milestone types applicable?

Anything in angle brackets is a datatype reference. There's been a lengthy list of them on the wiki for some time (although that should probably be updated now that L6 is out). The list gives typical resources that various datatypes would open.

By their nature, different datatypes have different structures. Some are simple (<Page 1-3>), some are more complex <TDNT ~ TDNT Vol. 7, Pg. 948-Vol. 8, Pg. 52>.

If you want to become more aware of datatypes and their structure, just look out for the reference on the right-click context menu. From here you can "search all resources", and it should be relatively easy to edit the search into a Milestone search.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/654737#Comment_654737

Has there been some sort of Artificial Intelligence Program that has gone through all the Logos Resources and tagged every {Milestone} in every place? Or is it more appropriate to say that Logos has begun the tagging and in times to come these searches will be even MORE comprehensive?

Nice feature, but showing only a fraction of the relevant journal articles.

Additionally, tagging all of these journals in the new format will take some time. As more and more journal articles are updated to this new format, you will continue to see more and more results. However, the change in tagging will not change the results that you see in your Collections search, as that is a different search syntax.

After I wrote this, I saw this post that Jonathan wrote. Seems likely that the tagging on other works will also take some time.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655243#Comment_655243

Has there been some sort of Artificial Intelligence Program that has gone through all the Logos Resources and tagged every {Milestone} in every place?

Milestones are the core of every bible, commentary or encyclopedia/dictionary else we could not perform a lookup of a bible passage or topic/word (Headwords). Faithlife don't need to do anything for bibles and commentaries, but they have augmented the publisher's article headers (Headwords) via tagging and the LCV dataset (Logos Controlled Vocabulary) so that we can search for "Communion" even if the resource calls it "Communion, holy", "Lord's Supper" or Eucharist. The tagging applies to the main bible dictionaries (encyclopedias), not all. Unfortunately the {Milestone} search doesn't cover Headwords as yet.

Lexicons have language lemmas as Headwords and Faithlife have done a lot of matching between morphologically assigned lemmas in bibles and the various lexicons.

So there is no no AI, just hard manual work in providing datasets to match similar milestones in different resources.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655243#Comment_655243

After I wrote this, I saw this post that Jonathan wrote. Seems likely that the tagging on other works will also take some time.

I hadn't considered that aspect but it will take some more hard work!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655243#Comment_655243

Has there been some sort of Artificial Intelligence Program that has gone through all the Logos Resources and tagged every {Milestone} in every place?

Milestones have been there since day one. Restricting a Bible search to a certain passage uses milestones. The commentary section of a passage guide uses milestones. The parallel resource menu uses milestones.

All that's changed (with regard to Milestones) is the search engine behaviour. No additional tagging has been added.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655282#Comment_655282

[Y][Y] Thanks

Lew Worthington

I know this has been batted around, and I'm quite certain I understand the distinction. However, I'm getting unexpected results when I click the search links in Bradley's initial message:

For the link associated with <John 3:16>, it simply does an Everything search with <John 3:16>. It finds only 14 media results, 1 result in one of my passage lists, and several hits from books.logos.com. It finds nothing among my library resources and nothing in the NRSV.

For the Milestone link he provided, I get even stranger results. I do get the hit from John 3:16 in the NRSV, and I do get library results, but the books.logos.com results come seemingly in pairs: One hit with the word, "milestone", and one with the actual reference to "John 3:16".

Perhaps I need to adjust my expectations.

Lew

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655433#Comment_655433

It finds nothing among my library resources and nothing in the NRSV.

That sounds like your index is missing or corrupted. Do you get any hits in your Library or Bibles for common words such as "God", "the", "love", etc.? If not, please enter "rebuild index" into the command box (at the top of the program window) and let it rebuild overnight.

the books.logos.com results come seemingly in pairs: One hit with the word, "milestone"

books.logos.com doesn't support "{Milestone}" queries and (incorrectly) falls back to searching for the word "milestone"; this is a known bug.

David Knoll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655441#Comment_655441

Can the milestone be set to follow specific versification? It doesn't seem to follow the versification of BHS (be it WIVU, LHB, WHM, or AF), but something closer to ESV or KJV. It is odd that I should have to pass through an English translation when searching references to a Hebrew verse.