Knox Bible please!
I know it's been suggested before, but to bring up again - I would love to see Msgr. Knox's translation of the Latin Vulgate in Verbum! His elegant, timeless English is one of the greatest treasures of the 20th century Church. His translation is spiritual and literary, graceful and lyrical, making it one of the most beautiful vernacular versions of the Holy Bible.
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As I never learned Latin so a good translation English translation of the Vulgate would be very useful. A Bible that was used for over 1400 years.
[[And Yes, we need to keep bringing useful books up until they become Logos Resources.]]
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My appreciation of the Knox version continues to grow, the more I read it. And wouldn't it be nice to have another English rendering of the Vulgate in Logos?
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David Ames said:
As I never learned Latin so a good translation English translation of the Vulgate would be very useful. A Bible that was used for over 1400 years.
[[And Yes, we need to keep bringing useful books up until they become Logos Resources.]]
I most definitely want Logos to get Knox's wonderful translation. That said for your case I believe the Douai version is an even closer translation of the Latin. Knox was faithful but occasionally his translation is a little less literal than the Douai.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
I most definitely want Logos to get Knox's wonderful translation. That said for your case I believe the Douai version is an even closer translation of the Latin. Knox was faithful but occasionally his translation is a little less literal than the Douai.
The Douay Rheims Bible that Logos has the Challoner version of 1749 or so and not the 1585 version
I have a PDF version of the 1585 version in Old English along with the Peter's transliteration.
I am just familiar enough with them to know how to tell them apart and have used both in some studies.
See Matt 2:1
If it says Herrod the king and Sages it is the 1585 version
If is says king Herod and wise men it is the Challoner changesSee Gen 1:5
If it says "and there was evening & morning, that made one day." It is the 1585 version
If it says "and there was evening and morning one day" it is the Challoner changesSee Psa 1:1
If it says "that hath not gone in the counsel of the impious" It is the 1585 version
If it says "the man who hath not walked in the counsel of the ungodly" it is the Challoner changes[[One test for each of the three volumes that the original was published in.]]
But having more then one translation of a work is always better. Looking forward to "Knox's wonderful translation".
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Yes Challoner revision is less literal by design to make the Bible more readable, before his revision it was not uncommon to have english catholics using the KJV because it was more understandable. Challoner's revision of Douay Rheims Bible offered a Bible that was much more readable. And in the end the greatest thing about the Knox Bible is it is a faithful translation of the Vulgate fully annotated in it's notes when the latin deviates from the accepted Hebrew and Greek. His translation philosophy could easily have been that of the NIV Literal as possible, free as necessary. I too am greatly looking forward to the day this makes it into Logos.
-Dan
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Don Awalt said:
I would love to see Msgr. Knox's translation of the Latin Vulgate in Verbum!
Me too!
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I have supported this in the past - would like to do so again. Thanks for considering it.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Bump! I recently discovered the Knox Bible, and it has quickly become my translation of choice because of its readability while using timeless, formal English. This is one of the few Catholic translations that I can honestly say is a joy to pick up and read! It would undoubtedly be my default Verbum translation if/when it becomes available.
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Mark Lanari said:
Bump! I recently discovered the Knox Bible, and it has quickly become my translation of choice because of its readability while using timeless, formal English. This is one of the few Catholic translations that I can honestly say is a joy to pick up and read! It would undoubtedly be my default Verbum translation if/when it becomes available.
Welcome to the forums. And thanks for adding support to what will be a good resource.
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The Knox Bible has been added to the Book Suggestions UserVoice. Please visit and vote!
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
Please visit and vote!
The Knox Bible now has the most votes of any of 120+ suggestions on the Book Suggestions UserVoice, with 54. Can we make it 100 votes or more?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:SineNomine said:
Please visit and vote!
The Knox Bible now has the most votes of any of 120+ suggestions on the Book Suggestions UserVoice, with 54. Can we make it 100 votes or more?
The Knox Bible now has 100+ votes and remains the most popular suggestion. Can we make it 200?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:
The Knox Bible now has 100+ votes and remains the most popular suggestion. Can we make it 200?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:SineNomine said:
The Knox Bible now has 100+ votes and remains the most popular suggestion. Can we make it 200?
Woo hoo!
I notice most of the books with the highest numbers of votes are Catholic resources. [:D]
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Average Joe said:
I notice most of the books with the highest numbers of votes are Catholic resources.
Well, most of the books that have been listed so far are Catholic resources, so that helps.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:SineNomine said:
The Knox Bible now has 100+ votes and remains the most popular suggestion. Can we make it 200?
We're only six votes short of 250! Can we get to 250 before May?
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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BUMP! Please bring this to Verbum!
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Currently at 320 votes! [:)]
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Steve said:
Currently at 320 votes!
343 now--closing in on 350, and still the most votes of any request!
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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It would be great to have the Knox bible but this and other books have been there for years. Do we have any evidence of Uservoice votes playing a role in Faithlife's decisions about future titles?
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Yes. In fact, some such evidence is visible on that UserVoice, mostly in German.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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358 votes, still at the top, and still going up!
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I'm working on it. Lots of Verbum irons in the fire with publishers right now.
Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |
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I'm working on it. Lots of Verbum irons in the fire with publishers right now.
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“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I know someone who lovingly calls the Knox translation the "Revised Wodehouse Version". I hope we can add it to Verbum.
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While it can be quite pithy.... Especially when we get into the psalms and he truly gives us the acrostics in english...
Psalm 118 (Hebrew 119) Shows that while he wished to remain faithful to the text he also tried his best to duplicate what helped make the original so memorable.
81 Keeping watch for thy aid, my soul languishes, yet I trust in thy word.82 Keeping watch for the fulfilment of thy promise, my eyes languish for comfort still delayed.83 Kitchen-smoke shrivels the wine-skin; so waste I, yet never forget thy will.84 Knowest thou not how short are thy servant’s days? Soon be my wrongs redressed.85 Knaves will be plotting against me still, that are no friends to thy law.86 Knaves they are that wrong me; bring aid, as thy covenant stands unchanging.87 Keep thy bidding I would, though small hope of life they had left me.88 Kind as thou ever wert, preserve me; then utter thy bidding, and I will obey.Comparing that to the Douay-Rheims Bible which is closer to a literal rendering of the vulgate's latin:
81 My soul hath fainted after thy salvation: and in thy word I have very much hoped.
82 My eyes have failed for thy word, saying: When wilt thou comfort me?
83 For I am become like a bottle in the frost: I have not forgotten thy justifications.
84 How many are the days of thy servant: when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me?
85 The wicked have told me fables: but not as thy law.
86 All thy statutes are truth: they have persecuted me unjustly, do thou help me.
87 They had almost made an end of me upon earth: but I have not forsaken thy commandments.
88 Quicken thou me according to thy mercy: and I shall keep the testimonies of thy mouth.
The Holy Bible, Translated from the Latin Vulgate (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), Ps 118:81–88.
-dan
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This is the best news I've I've heard in a long time. So happy to hear that there's some movement on the Knox Bible. I know that you're focused on the ordinary form of the breviary (Liturgy of the Hours) but while you're working with Baronius Press on the Knox Bible, you may also want to look into their 1961 English/Latin edition of the Roman breviary (which is also valid and licit for regular use in the Church today). So many historical resources on Verbum refer to the breviary in its pre-1970 form. Baronius Press's version is a faithful reproduction of old 1963 Collegeville edition but with the Gallican Psalter (instead of the Pian Psalter). I highly recommend it for Verbum. Thanks and Merry Christmas!
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Baronius Press">
5. Are you considering selling your titles as ebooks?
We are currently carefully evaluating ways in which to provide our books in eBook format. However, with two columns layout, such as our Daily Missal or Roman Breviary, it is not technically possible at the moment. If you would like to be informed when our titles are released in ebook format, please follow us on Facebook or Twitter or subscribe to our Mailing List.
Something tells me Faithlife has the ability to get around that limitation....
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I know someone who lovingly calls the Knox translation the "Revised Wodehouse Version". I hope we can add it to Verbum.
Now I have a mental image of the Bible being narrated by Bernie Wooster 😉
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I received this reply this morning.
Dear Mr. Ring,
As we stated last year, we currently have no plans to make any of our titles available in ebook format, and we have no plans to license our exclusive titles to Faithlife.
Kind regards,
Carlos Palad
Baronius Press
They seem totally opposed to licensing their publications even though Faithlife is able to publish with the formatting they desire.
Best wishes,
DR
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Disappointing.
Interestingly, Baronius Press appear to have provided or allowed the provision of the Knox Bible text online here;
http://catholicbible.online/knox?bible_part_no=1&book_no=1&chapter_no=1Kevin Mark
Adult Faith Formation & RCIA Coordinator, St Mary of the Angels Parish, Geelong VIC, Australia
Catholic Prison Chaplain, Geelong VIC, Australia
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Welcome to the forums. Please note that a link must have a " " [space] after it to be live. And thanks for the link.Kevin Mark said:Disappointing.
Interestingly, Baronius Press appear to have provided or allowed the provision of the Knox Bible text online here;
http://catholicbible.online/knox?bible_part_no=1&book_no=1&chapter_no=1""Catholic Prison Chaplain, "" also thanks for serving in that capacity
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Kevin Mark said:
Interestingly, Baronius Press appear to have provided or allowed the provision of the Knox Bible text online here;
http://catholicbible.online/knox?bible_part_no=1&book_no=1&chapter_no=1Good link. Knox is interesting; you almost have to have the Vulgate sitting next to it, to see where Knox is coming from:
http://catholicbible.online/side_by_side?bible_part_no=1&book_no=1&chapter_no=1
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I think they're not steering us in the correct direction.
The people who actually own the rights to publish would be the Archdiocese of Westminster, I've tried to email them without response.
1950, 2012 Archdiocese of Westminster I admire their physical books, they're beautiful but I don't like their obfuscation, and I think they're being nasty in doing it when all they would have to do is say the Copyright is held by the Archdiocese.
It could be that the Archdiocese in 2012 assigned them complete rights, and the catholicbible.online site acquired rights prior to that time. However the Internet Archive only has archives of them since March 6, 2016.
Also note that Templegate Publishers is publishing Knox's New Testament. https://www.templegate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=143&osCsid=bv6u5g4jsqeaf1h6at69qjl863
Has Faithlife/Logos/Verbum approached the Archdiocese directly? As I mentioned, I've contacted the person in charge of media publications for the archdiocese but I have never received a reply.
DR
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
It could be that the Archdiocese in 2012 assigned them complete rights, and the catholicbible.online site acquired rights prior to that time.
Nope. Scroll down to the bottom of the home page of the CatholicBible.online site.
David J. Ring, Jr. said:Also note that Templegate Publishers is publishing Knox's New Testament. https://www.templegate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=143&osCsid=bv6u5g4jsqeaf1h6at69qjl863
Published in 1997.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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You should have just posted what it said - it says this. 2016 © CatholicBible.online, Baronius Press So Baronius Press published it. But that still doesn't close the knot, the copyright holder is the Archdiocese.
Archdiocese of Westminster
Archbishop's House
Ambrosden Avenue
Westminster, London SW1P 1QJ England,
Great Britain
Telephone: (020)7798-9033 Fax: 7798-9077
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No news to report on this, alas. I'm reading Waugh's biography of Knox right now and do wish we could have his translation in the software.
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Don,
Did you see my note as to the real holder of the Copyright on this, Archdiocese of Westminster holds the copyright, but they assigned it - either fully or partially to Baronius Press in 2009, I think it would be wise to contact the Archdiocese of Westminster as even when Baronius Press is lamenting that they cannot publish eBooks of their texts with multiple columns, and Fairhlife has been doing this for years, they just won't budge. I've even proposed a licensing solution where each person wanting a Faithlife book show that they've purchased a Knox Bible from Baronius, but they will not back down. They seem not to understand that often electronic publications and paper publications have different uses. I have paper copies of my favorite Bibles and I enjoy reading them but for study, nothing beats Verbum/Logos/Faithlife software books.
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