Logos 8 v 7 - Whats missing?
Hearing mixed reports about folks losing functionality and having their workflow upset by upgrading to 8, so if you have, what features/options are missing/not implemented yet?
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
Comments
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The notes feature is missing quite a bit. If you are a heavy notes user, as I am, this can be quite unsettling at first. However:
- You can switch back to the old notes system within L8.
- They plan to eventually add most of the features from L7.
- They tell you specifically what is missing and what they are working on here:
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I have not seen a definitive list yet I'm hoping someone at Faithlife will publish one soon.
Notes has been mentioned.
The new home page is a radical redesign and is incomplete. The knock on here is that some of the items that you may be used to finding there have moved or are not available in the form you may be expecting.
There have been some changes in behaviour that might catch you out depending on the way that you use Logos.
- Opening a reading plan from the new home page closes the current layout and opens a new Faithlife defined layout
- Opening the Library from the Icon in the Toolbar no longer switches to an open Library view if you have one.
From a general UI perspective things have been moved around, the new structure seems reasonably logical but seems to require more scrolling. Program Settings for example took me a while to find.
Help is in serious need of the promised update being delivered.
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.
There are other quirks that I keep finding some of which are irritating because I need to change how I do things others are more annoying and I'm hoping that in these cases we'll be given some configuration options to adjust the behaviour.
I have not seen a commitment from Faithlife but a lot of posts here promise that the issues that have been accepted as needing an update will be fixed in 8.1. It's quite possible that the beta testers have these fixes already so know what is in 8.1.
Feedback from Verbum/Liturgical users seems to indicate that if that is your background a lot more is missing.
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- Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
- Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore. I would like to know what was updated.
- The look and feel / user interface is also a bit different. Some like it, some don't.
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willy arnold said:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both
I agree because one could click on the example and then use it as a pseudo-template. But if they get the new templates built quickly . . .
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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willy arnold said:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
Also, after downloading updates, L7 used to tell me what was added / updated. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that anymore. I would like to know what was updated.
You can see this now in the Library view, Open the Sidebar (three line icon just below the library Icon top left) then there are some filters last one being added.
Personally I see this as an example of the type of UI change that needs to be included in a quick guide document for Logos 7 users, the sidebar is a great feature but I would not describe the access or content as intuitive.
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Graham Owen said:
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.
There never really was such a concept as "Preferred Bible". The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes. (Your second sentence is exactly right.)
We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.
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but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.
While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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While I agree that it was a nice "feature", if a user learns the prioritization feature they can easily prioritize their - say - 5 favorite translations and access them on the file while in the software. I don't think this ability has changed, has it? ( I have only spent a few hours in Logos 8 since I downloaded it and let it index
).In Christ,
Ken
Lenovo Yoga 7 15ITL5 Touch Screen; 11th Gen Intel i7 2.8Ghz; 12Gb RAM; 500Gb SDD;WIN 11
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MJ. Smith said:
but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool (that may come back in a different format in a future release) and not a "feature" of the software that would be frequently used to change the preferred Bible.
While I agree with you, I suspect that Faithlife may be greatly underestimating the number of people who switch Bibles frequently ... or will once you get just a tad more lectionary support. Most faith formation directors I know carry a 4 or 8 translation Bible - and switch between the Bible used for liturgy and their personal favorite Bible for study on a regular basis.
I switch which translation(s) I'm reading frequently, but I don't change their prioritization very often.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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The home page tool (which is not on the Logos 8 home page) was a helper that just presented a Bible picker then modified your prioritisation list behind-the-scenes.
Bradley, not only would I like to see it brought back, but I wish it would be expanded to other areas. For example, I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?
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willy arnold said:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
1. Let's keep praying about this.
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
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GaoLu said:
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.
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GaoLu said:willy arnold said:
Search examples are gone but have been replaced by templates. I wish they could have kept both.
1. Let's keep praying about this.
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
You can easily achieve this with prioritization and keystrokes. The left and right arrow keys quickly toggle through your prioritized translations thus eliminating the need to change the preferred Bible (which would take more time).
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David Taylor Jr said:
The left and right arrow keys quickly toggle through your prioritized translations thus eliminating the need to change the preferred Bible (which would take more time).
Yes ... and no ... prioritization has a direct effect on your available canon.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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GaoLu said:
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.
I would like to do this easily. I would if there was a “set preferred bible to xxx“ command I could put on my shortcuts bar. I want to do so because I use a different Bible in church/academic/devotional contexts. I currently “set target”, which is OK, bit doesn’t change hovertext or CBV etc.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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We understand that using the "Preferred Bible" home page tool was a lot easier than learning all the ins and outs of prioritisation, but we saw this primarily as an onboarding tool
Bradley FL has missed the point. You say you have made changes in Logos 8 to make it easier for new users and they you removed one of the features that actually made it easier for new users. You should have used this idea and created a prioritization tool that allowed a user to select a data type and then the top 5 resources they wanted to prioritize. Not unlike we used to be able to do with Libronix but only much more user friendly. It could have even been created as a workflow type document for a new user setting up their system. And as MJ pointed about there are many users of Logos software that use it in a variety of ways and some would use this to change their preferred Bible at times other than initial setup. FL has missed a real opportunity here while complicating things by removing other features form the home page that also allow a user quick access like the Recently updated resources, release notes and link to user account to name three things.
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Matthew said:
I wish there was a "commentary picker" tool where I could easily pick my top five commentaries for each individual book of the Bible and have Logos modify the prioritization list behind the scenes. Maybe in Logos 8.5?
[Y][Y][Y]
I keep meaning to do this but have never taken the time... perhaps the tool could even suggest a scheme based on bestcommentaries.com though I wouldn't agree with all their choices it might be a good start?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
a scheme based on bestcommentaries.com though I wouldn't agree with all their choices it might be a good start?
Only for a portion of the customer base [;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.
For my own personal study I prefer Bible A. One congregation I attend prefers that reading and teaching be done from Bible B. Another congregation I visit prefers that Bible C is used. When I go to a nursing home, they prefer Bible D. It isn't a matter of just using the arrow keys to toggle which Bible I have open. I need to actually change my prioritized Bible for so I see the text of whatever Bible I am working with when using Power Lookup or moving my mouse over a Bible reference to make the text appear.
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MJ. Smith said:
Only for a portion of the customer base
Would the suggestion I made in this thread work for the entire customer base, or are there ways you would recommend it be modified?
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Mark Barnes said:
I want to do so because I use a different Bible in church/academic/devotional contexts.
Matthew said:For my own personal study I prefer Bible A. One congregation I attend prefers that reading and teaching be done from Bible B. Another congregation I visit prefers that Bible C is used. When I go to a nursing home, they prefer Bible D.
Do you find that you're changing just your preferred Bible, or would there be other prioritised resources you'd want to change at the same time (e.g., a different top commentary set, top lexicon, etc.)? That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
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That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
Hijacking the thread (partially sorry) [;)]
As a journeyman preacher I, like a similar poster in this thread, have to contend with congregations with differing translation preferences.
When I prepare a service it would be nice to have a simple switch that allowed me to change the preferred bible in both Logos and Proclaim to that of the congregation.
I don't need any other resources switched because no matter what they choose I rely on my own preference for preparation and then make allowances where necessary to accommodate the actual bible they will be reading.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
It would be nice to have a "walk me through my prioritization" guide, so there it walks us through like the Bible Study walks us through that step by step.
Step 1- Pick your top 5 Bibles in order from most preferred to least. And it populates a list of your current Bibles to choose in order. When you click the first one, it moves it over to the Top 5 Box which is beside the list.
Step 2- Pick your top 5 Commentaries for: 1. Genesis, 2. Exodus, 3. Leviticus...etc.
Step 3- Pick your top 5 Bible Dictionaries in order of highest preferred to least.
Step 4- Pick your top 5 Encyclopedias...
etc...
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GaoLu said:
2. My habit would be to quite often change preferred / prioritized Bible. A quick way to do so would be ever so useful.
Can you explain why this is a common "habit" for you? Knowing how you want to use the software may help us design better features for a future release.
Sorry to be late back to the table, but we have some world-time difference.
My habit is preparing lessons, sermons, classes in a variety of Asian languages and to a wide range of audiences. I often work with translators and walk through this or that language for a series. I have to consider what translation my audience uses and its background TR-based (as many Asian language Bibles are--and locals feel deeply about whatever they have) or newer eclectic texts. Sometimes I have to go back and forth and must be able to explain variances. I have to know what their Bible says and on what Gk text it is based-so I don't wander off quoting something, leaving my translator and congregation bewildered at my heresy.
KJV is what I cut my teeth on and memorized most from. It is genetic. It is still home-base. Other times, however, I use wordings from the NKJV because the English wordings are clear and yet fairly true to the TR so I don't get too far afield from a TR-based Asian language. Other times I lean way off into the NIV or NLT for ways to say things for translators with varying English proficiency. I like NASB and ESV and LEB to keep my words closer to par since my Greek is weak and my Hebrew almost nil. Then I have other-language Bibles in Logos or as PB's that I use. Each takes its turn being my most favored version of the day.
This is getting long and dry. To cut to the chase, I spend time working in one Bible and want everything working in that Bible (see Mark Barnes and Mike Binks above). Then I switch next week, sometimes the next day, to another Bible and do the same there. My case might be extreme and not a good sales pitch for the Logos population at large, but that is my case and the explanation for my odd habits. Workarounds work fine too, but it never hurts to ask for an idea I think might be personally beneficial!
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Michael S. said:
That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
It would be nice to have a "walk me through my prioritization" guide, so there it walks us through like the Bible Study walks us through that step by step.
What would be really useful, especially for new/inexperienced users, would be a set of questions about tradition and preferences. I think an approach like this would work for most resources types except of course Bible translations.
Main issue that I see would be avoiding language in the qualifying questions that might be perceived as negative i.e. Conservative vs Liberal. Some options could be based on a ranking so for tradition I would probably rank Pentecostal as 1 an Methodist as 2 because of the holiness tradition which in part formed the character of the tradition I'm part of. For other questions I think a sliding scale would work so for example I like a healthy mix of new and old publications whereas others might be happier with more older works.
Odd as it seems to those of us who have embraced the wealth of material available in Logos and know how to curate for ourselves many I have spoken to over the years are intimidated by this and would love a way of creating a "safe zone". Never really thought about this before but prioritisation seems like a way of addressing this concern.
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Default prioritisation is already different for Verbum and Logos, so the principle is already there.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Default prioritisation is already different for Verbum and Logos, so the principle is already there.
So the next logical step, which sounds like it might be easy to implement, could be the ability to switch based on Tradition and Package Level.
Personally I think I'll always prefer decide for myself but a quick start for Prioritisation would probably help sell the idea and encourage users to dig deeper. If a list of possible Prioritisation Sets could be built from the library contents that would be really quite neat and switching between sets would very quickly demonstrate the benefits.
Was just looking to see if there's an option so Save and Restore Prioritisation settings, can't see anything but that would be a great feature as well and potentially useful when trying to study aspects of theology from different perspectives assuming that your library is diverse enough of course.
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Mark Barnes said:
Mark, when I upgrade, will I have to redo my prioritization, or is it kept from the way I have it set now in L7?
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Michael S. said:
Mark, when I upgrade, will I have to redo my prioritization, or is it kept from the way I have it set now in L7?
L7 prioritisation will be maintained after doing the L8 upgrade.
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Michael S. said:Mark Barnes said:
Mark, when I upgrade, will I have to redo my prioritization, or is it kept from the way I have it set now in L7?
I'm not Mark, but your prioritisation will be preserved!
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Well.. hopefully I wont regret it but have pressed the button.. let the learning curve begin.. hopefully I wont find too many gaps to my workflow... presumably it wont override 7 install and will reindex everything anew?
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Michael S. said:
That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
It would be nice to have a "walk me through my prioritization" guide, so there it walks us through like the Bible Study walks us through that step by step.
Step 1- Pick your top 5 Bibles in order from most preferred to least. And it populates a list of your current Bibles to choose in order. When you click the first one, it moves it over to the Top 5 Box which is beside the list.
Step 2- Pick your top 5 Commentaries for: 1. Genesis, 2. Exodus, 3. Leviticus...etc.
Step 3- Pick your top 5 Bible Dictionaries in order of highest preferred to least.
Step 4- Pick your top 5 Encyclopedias...
etc...
I too would like to see some sort of priority picker for library resources. Bibles, commentaries and dictionaries and more. Having the ability to pick the top five by type and resource.
I would also like to see it on the tool bar instead of a part of the library for easier and quicker access.
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DominicM said:
Well.. hopefully I wont regret it but have pressed the button.. let the learning curve begin.. hopefully I wont find too many gaps to my workflow... presumably it wont override 7 install and will reindex everything anew?
It will overwrite your L7 program, but not your L7 data/resources. Some new datasets will download (and a few resources) and that will trigger an index, but it won't be a full re-download and re-index.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Graham Owen said:
Help is in serious need of the promised update being delivered.
Looking forward to Help resource update. Thankful for new Help Center having many Logos 8 videos and articles (Training and Support) so Logos wiki now includes many links => https://wiki.logos.com/
Keep Smiling [:)]
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thx Mark, but is downloading 1.6GB so suspect that may be incorrect
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
thx Mark, but is downloading 1.6GB so suspect that may be incorrect
If you've bought a large library, that figure may be reasonable. If all you've bought is the features, then something is wrong.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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just the full feature set
sadly
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Graham Owen said:
Feedback seems to suggest that Preferred/Default Bible is gone as a concept and has been merged into Prioritisation. I think in reality this has been the case for some time and that under the covers the Preferred Bible selection paced your selection at the top of the Prioritisation list.
Hi Graham,
Let me shed a little light on our roadmap here.
We're working on a comprehensive overhaul of how we onboard new users into Logos. When they set up Logos, users will be asked to choose their preferred Bible, possibly their preferred commentary, among other configurations/customization questions. In that sense, we'll be addressing the needs of a new user, helping them set that up. Aiming to release this in early 2019.
In terms of providing a quick way for users to change their preferred Bible from the Homepage, I'd love your feedback on a solution we're kicking the tires on.
- We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
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Daniel Di Bartolo said:
In terms of providing a quick way for users to change their preferred Bible from the Homepage, I'd love your feedback on a solution we're kicking the tires on.
- We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
That would work for me! [Y]
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Daniel Di Bartolo said:
- We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
This seems reasonable.
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DominicM said:
just the full feature set
sadlyI'm surprised by that 2Gb download. But looking more carefully, there are some fairly large datasets:
- Theology Cross references is 200Mb
- Biblical Theology cross references is 171Mb
- Bible cross references is 135Mb
- Vulgate interlinears are 178Mb
- Grammar cross references is 56Mb
The app itself is another 200Mb, so that with the above datasets is already half the download size.
All that means I think you can be confident that even with a 2Gb download, Logos is only installing new components.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Do you find that you're changing just your preferred Bible, or would there be other prioritised resources you'd want to change at the same time (e.g., a different top commentary set, top lexicon, etc.)? That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
Just the top Bible is fine. I create collections for the other contexts, and have custom passage guides that only show the commentaries useful for different settings.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Daniel Di Bartolo said:
We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
For me that would be a huge improvement. In fact, I think I suggested it about 18 months ago!
It's of no use to new users, of course, but if you're looking after onboarding them anyway, the command line option would definitely suit me.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Daniel Di Bartolo said:
We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
That would work for me ... a bit harder to teach to newcomers to the software. Could it be added to Faithlife Assistant as well?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi Daniel
I don't change my preferred Bible, well I did from NASB 77 to 95 when that became available and one other time because of a glitch (or user error). I got involved trying to help a user who was asking why and was being pointed at Prioritisation which is the right answer for now I guess but is not the right long term answer, glad that you see things that way too. Having helped a number of people get started with Logos I am painfully aware of how something like Prioritisation can be confusing and provides the user a way to degrade the quality of information as well as enhance it.
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Graham Owen said:
I got involved trying to help a user
Thanks so much, Graham.
Appreciate users like you who are helpful to others as they learn to navigate Logos.
Enjoy 8!0 -
Daniel Di Bartolo said:
Enjoy 8!
You don't want me to go there Daniel, 3 days of frustration so far...
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That is, is changing preferred Bible sufficient, or would you like to switch in a whole new set of prioritised resources?
Most of the time just changing the prioritized Bible alone would be sufficient. However, now that the question has been posed, I can see where there would be benefit to changing prioritized original language Bibles as well. For example, I might be using the NA28 in conjunction with the the NASB, but if I switched my prioritized Bible to the KJV for a congregation that uses it, then I would want a Textus Receptus for my Greek text.
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Daniel Di Bartolo said:
We're considering making a command to "Set preferred Bible to____" in the Go Box, which you could then save as a shortcut. That way, you could set up several shortcuts to change your preferred Bible with just a click. Do you think that would meet your needs?
That would work for Logos veterans, but not so much for newcomers. Having command options is always a good thing, but having a graphical interface is better. You would be expecting new users to memorize another command AND to know how to make shortcuts. Having said that, a shortcut that lets me change a prioritized Bible "with just a click" would be faster than what was available on the home page of Logos 7. In short, I support the suggestion Faithlife is considering, but I think it is only half a solution. A graphical option still needs to be available for users without them having to create shortcuts.
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Graham Owen said:
I am painfully aware of how something like Prioritisation can be confusing and provides the user a way to degrade the quality of information as well as enhance it.
Yeah, I've never felt like prioritization was a great friend...depending on the size of one's library, it could turn 1000s of books into a couple dozen. If you are going that route, why have 1000s of books?
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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